Your thoughts on Obama - now and then

[General Zod]

So many here are disappointed with the guy. But what really needs to be done to change this? I really don't think voting GOP or abstaining from voting really helps the situation, to be honest.

I'll either be voting for a third party (lol) or abstaining unless the Republicans manage to somehow magically put up a candidate who isn't an awful pile of shit.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

So many here are disappointed with the guy. But what really needs to be done to change this? I really don't think voting GOP or abstaining from voting really helps the situation, to be honest.

I'll either be voting for a third party (lol) or abstaining unless the Republicans manage to somehow magically put up a candidate who isn't an awful pile of shit.

I hear people say all the time that they should either vote third party, GOP or abstain from voting. How does that move the progressive movement closer to their goals?

[General Zod]

So many here are disappointed with the guy. But what really needs to be done to change this? I really don't think voting GOP or abstaining from voting really helps the situation, to be honest.

I'll either be voting for a third party (lol) or abstaining unless the Republicans manage to somehow magically put up a candidate who isn't an awful pile of shit.

I hear people say all the time that they should either vote third party, GOP or abstain from voting. How does that move the progressive movement closer to their goals?

It depends on the platform of the candidate, for the most part. I don't have any problem voting for a non Democrat if they aren't complete pigfuckers. (Then again I ultimately plan on moving out of the country too, so eh. . . )

[Pint0 Xtreme]

I hear people say all the time that they should either vote third party, GOP or abstain from voting. How does that move the progressive movement closer to their goals?

It depends on the platform of the candidate, for the most part. I don't have any problem voting for a non Democrat if they aren't complete pigfuckers. (Then again I ultimately plan on moving out of the country too, so eh. . . )

Well, the progressive movement was sold on Obama as a champion and they got a relatively timid center-right president. Honestly, I think the solution(s) lie beyond the simple question of voting.

[Cecelia5578]

. I am convinced a John McCain heathcare bill would have been better than the existing Obama Heathcare bill. Because McCain would have not needed to compromise time and time again in order to get zero Republican votes.

So, being generous here and assuming that, even though McCain wins in 2008, the Dems retain their same majorities, how in the world would President McCain sign a health care bill into law? Look at the shitstorm the right has had over what actually passed; if President McCain signed such a bill into law, at the least he'd be primaried, or even encouraged to resign.

I'm just dumbfounded at the degree to which people think a Republican would be better than Obama. I get why the non Americans might think so, but for American liberals who actually have to live with the consequences of a GOP win in 2012...have people forgotten what 8 years of Bush brought us? What the modern GOP is like? Yeah, I get the many, many comparisons between Bush and Obama (it seems like every other post here is about that), but there's just something wrong here.

[Mr Bean]

You think the past two years is how Republicans always are? No, there was a time when they were fans of compromise and governed. Disastrously but they governed the country as they thought they should and they lead. Not to a place we want to go but they do lead.

In our screwed up worlds policies which would have never passed under GWB manage to pass under Obama simply because he lets himself be compromised into the Republican position.

*Edit
My argument was specific to the heath care debate only not to a general Obama VS McCain presidency. I'm still quite satisfied for my 2008 vote because had McCain been president the Supreme Court would be a 7-2 solidly conservative institution and we would be up a serious shit creek.

[aerius]

I had the TV turned off for most of the presidential campaign so I didn't really have any real impressions of him back then. It's all campaign talk anyway so I was going to wait & see what he'd do after he's elected. I can't say I'm disappointed, no, it's more like I'm amazed at how he's managed to fuck up everything's he's touched, it's like he's got the reverse midas touch where everything he touches turns to shit. You get something where I'm thinking he can't possibly dick it up, and then he somehow does it, and I'm going "damn, did I just see that?" If it weren't so fucked up I'd be doing a standup comedy routine on it.

[Morilore]

I tried not to get excited when he was elected. I tried to say to myself "do not expect FDRGandalfChrist." But on the day when he was elected, the jubilation was just so goddamn infectious that I let myself get optimistic about health care, about executive power, about fiscal policy, etc. etc.

Now I'm instinctively resisting the opposite tendency, that catastrophizes everything. I want to think he at least has good-faith reasons for the policy decisions he makes. But the problem this time is the contempt Obama likes to show for his own base. I still remember when he was at a meeting and someone shouted "Repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell!" and Obama responded with something like "When you've got an ally like me, you don't need to yell." That kind of smug contempt, that kind of taking-the-base-for-granted, as though we are obligated to consider him an "ally," drives me up the wall.

[Alferd Packer]

Oh, I thought of an actual positive reason to vote for him again in 2012: if he gets re-elected, no action to derail the healthcare bill can realistically be taken until 2017, and by then it'll be too late. It's very rare for something like that to be repealed once it gets signed into law(for all the blustering by the Republicans, we still have Medicare 45+ years later), and by 2017, pretty much all the provisions of the bill will be in effect, if not all of them.

While the healthcare bill is a giant mess, it's easier for Democrats to try to improve it incrementally through amendments to specific parts than it is for Republicans to try to scrap the whole thing.

[Darth Yan]

didn't they just repeal don't ask don't tell? That should count for something? Besides, those saying he's no worse then the conservatives are being overly silly.

[cosmicalstorm]

I was hopeful but I'm also pessimistic. I remember someone comparing the running of a large country with a big forest. After a while it just grows too thick and wild. I have no idea if there is any 'fix' for America. Hopefully it will work out in the end, but there seems to be a lot of really insane people ready to do crazy things with this great place.

[Cecelia5578]

It depends on the platform of the candidate, for the most part. I don't have any problem voting for a non Democrat if they aren't complete pigfuckers. (Then again I ultimately plan on moving out of the country too, so eh. . . )

I guess this is my problem-not everyone in America is fortunate enough to be able to move, and some of us have to live with the consequences of elections. Sometimes it seems to me that people here expect ALL Americans-even the left wing ones who want no part of bad governance or centrist bullshit-to be punished for living here.

And its especially easy for foreign liberals to want Obama to lose-they don't have to live with the consequences (well, not so much, considering America's hegemony).

[SirNitram]

When he was running, I basically expected another go of Clinton: Here we have a Democrat from one of the strongholds of the GOP(Kansas this time, but), a law scholar, and the main difference was he had huge ears. Triangulation and compromises would abound, but the alternative was the increasingly mad McCain. He made alot of promises which I agreed to, and lobbied in favor of him to those around me who vote.

At the half-time of his first term, let's see what we've got.

Implement the new fair pay act.
Save three huge manufacturing companies in the US. Which turned around into profitability and hiring.
Credit card reform.
Student loan reform.
START.
Hate crimes expanded.
Funding more research, especially in energy.
Making it easier to get PTSD to get diagnosed.
More funding for veterans programs.
Ending DADT.
Food safety.
Health care reform, which includes closing the donut hole, preventing disapproals for pre-existing conditions, letting children stay on parents insurance longer, expanding CHIP and Medicare eligibility, cut down on payments to medicare-advantage companies.
Fully funding the violence against women act, creating a special advisor on it.
Begin withdrawl from Iraq, including most combat brigades.
Expand Pell grants.
EPA to regulate carbon.
FDC to regulate cigarettes more.

I'm sure I missed alot. But frankly, more than I expected from a Clinton-mold law professor raised in Kansas.

[General Zod]

I guess this is my problem-not everyone in America is fortunate enough to be able to move, and some of us have to live with the consequences of elections. Sometimes it seems to me that people here expect ALL Americans-even the left wing ones who want no part of bad governance or centrist bullshit-to be punished for living here.

And its especially easy for foreign liberals to want Obama to lose-they don't have to live with the consequences (well, not so much, considering America's hegemony).

I'm not exactly saying it's a good solution for everyone. It's still going to take me years to get to the point where I'm employable overseas and have enough saved up to move where I want.

[Darth Raptor]

didn't they just repeal don't ask don't tell? That should count for something?

Whoop-de-doo, now even queer people can kill and die for abstract and ill-defined geopolitical goals.

Obama is such a fucking pile of shit. Every time I read "we have to vote for the Democrats because the only alternative are the Republicans" I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I'll be God damned if I vote to give that ridiculous empty suit another term in office. He's fired, and if his successor is just as bad or worse, then he'll be fired too. Yes, I know the system is rigged, but until we stop listening to the armchair analysts hurf durf about politcal viability, it will always be that way. Vote for the candidate that actually represents your political views and, if they get elected, vote them out if they don't keep their promises. If you're that pessimistic about the possibility of reforming our sham democracy, then why bother to vote at all?

The same goes for Congress. No failtastic pile of shit incumbent should take their support for granted because they have a D at the end of their name. So go ahead, laugh at my impotent outrage and my inconsequential protest voting. I've had enough of 18th Century politics.

[J]

I thought he was a screwup and I was right, but I didn't think he'd screw up quite this badly. When you go back and listen to his speeches on education, the economy, energy, healthcare and so forth during his campaign then run the numbers to see if the claims are actually plausible, more often than not they aren't. The other thing that annoyed me, though I guess it's common to politicians, is that he never gave a straight answer to questions and always went back to his talking points. Ask him about the deficit and he goes on & on about the sanctity of education and the importance of healthcare, he never answers the question.

To say I was disappointed would imply I had some expectations from him, truth be told I didn't, at least not after the debates where he neatly sidestepped and avoided all questions on the details & specifics of his plans. I think where he lost me was when he was asked what programs needed to be cut if the $700 billion TARP bailout was passed, at which point he went to his talking points and listed a bunch of things which would actually increase spending. And no one called him on it. Then he goes on and hires Tax Cheat Timmy to run the Treasury and puts Larry Summers on the economics policy board, at that point I knew he was hopeless.

[Darth Yan]

given that dadt kept gays from openly serving in the military, and that it was one of his promises, it's not exactly meaningless.

[Simon_Jester]

didn't they just repeal don't ask don't tell? That should count for something?

Whoop-de-doo, now even queer people can kill and die for abstract and ill-defined geopolitical goals.

Obama is such a fucking pile of shit. Every time I read "we have to vote for the Democrats because the only alternative are the Republicans" I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I'll be God damned if I vote to give that ridiculous empty suit another term in office. He's fired, and if his successor is just as bad or worse, then he'll be fired too. Yes, I know the system is rigged, but until we stop listening to the armchair analysts hurf durf about politcal viability, it will always be that way. Vote for the candidate that actually represents your political views and, if they get elected, vote them out if they don't keep their promises.

I'm on board with this, albeit with less swearing.

I honestly thought Obama was realistically going to do the kinds of things that I thought needed doing at the time- that his agenda was not going to become a predictable extension of Republican-style corporatism with a thin sprinkling of reform to keep the proles from rioting in the wrong directions.

I don't think it was unreasonable for me to expect that, though a wiser and more cynical person than I was in '08 might have come to a different conclusion. I never thought he walked on water, but I did think he was capable of taking a stand. I was wrong.

I live in an area where it's fairly safe tactically for Democrats to make a protest vote for further-left candidates, and I am very seriously considering doing so. If I lived in a swing state, I'd have a much harder decision to make because I do care about keeping Republicans out of office; there are few Republicans I know of that I would trust with real political power, and they're all ordinary Republican voters, not politicians.

[Lonestar]

I hear people say all the time that they should either vote third party, GOP or abstain from voting. How does that move the progressive movement closer to their goals?

I heard Jesse Ventura(I know, I know) say in an interview "Our system is great! We have twice as many choices at the polls as North Korea!". At the time I thought that was just him being a kook, but after 8 years of Bush and 2 years of "Better but not a whole hell of a lot" Obama, I find myself agreeing with him. The problem is that we(the American people) have allowed ourselves to be boxed into a 2 party system because if you vote for a Third Party you are "throwing your vote away".

I will likely be voting for a third party in 2012.

[Darth Raptor]

All it really takes for our two-party system to go away is for people to stop believing in it. Then it disappears in a puff of logic. Yes, I know our agrarian presidential republic (chartered when water wheels were ZOMG amazing) needs to be overhauled, but the first step to doing that is believing that it can be done and deciding to do it.

[Majin Gojira]

He's not living up to his hype in many areas, but he's getting some things done that are good.

Currently, I don't see any good, viable alternatives, but I hold neutrality from my former enthusiasm.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I expected little, and got worse. Voting for Obama, and volunteering for his Administration, and watching his cabinet picks slightly a couple months later...well, it was all down hill from there. It also sealed my final disillusionment with conventional left-liberal American politics, and I must say today I have no affection intrinsically for the U.S. Constitution. It would be nice if there were easily available left alternatives, but there isn't.

No chance for anything better other than "whatever the most decent Democrat the Democratic insider leadership will give us" will be accomplished in this country until some countervailing popular force capable of mobilizing feet on pavement and some amount of dollars on the scale of the old labor movement from the grassroots, combined with major and strong reform efforts to place substantial restraints on the institutional capacity to restrict democracy (ending gerrymandering, overturning campaign finance - especially since Citizens United - in favor of public financing, anti-fusionist and anti-third-party laws, and rolling back the constitutional imprimatur for ossified two-party-ism in favor of proportional representational multi-party-ism). Liberal conceptions of political practice, which all boil down to "moralistically appeal in bit media either dependent ultimately also on business sponsorship on one hand or isolated and irrelevant on the other hand, to groups of educated people in hope their rational precedent setting will somehow organically change the attitudes of atomized voters on the bottom" are totally inadequate. Scary unhip left-wing politics offer alternative solutions to practice, but I'm sure the misanthropes will pass on that and hope they can guilt Americans going paycheck to paycheck to buy green products I guess, or adopt some totally unrealistic idea of carving up some neo-yeoman farmer existence, if they belong to a more extremist group.

Of course this is silly, because none of the major social changes in our history or any one else's were accomplished that way, but you'll never hear a Democrat discuss how the Civil Rights Movement was really accomplished, just post facto hagiography for their politicians eventually pushed into it.

[Coyote]

I expected a centrist, maybe a Clinton type guy. He ran as a centrist moderate and so at first I was unsurprised and even defending his moves. But as time wen ton I was more and more boggled at the utter naivete of the guy. He kept coming back to the goddamn ReThuglicans, strapping on the kneepads, and begging away for "bipartisanship" while they openly said they had no plans other than his destruction.

If he'd been a fighting moderate I'd've been happy enough, even with a "triangulation" strategy, but Obama has been more of a GOP meat puppet than a Democrat. With only a few differences, he's been W. Bush's third term. DADT got repealed almost in spite of him, not because of him.

That said, I still don't regret him being our President coming out of 2008; I do still believe the alternative (Quckdraw and Governor RealDoll) would have been far worse. But depending on how things look in 2012, I may go for the Greens. Now it feels like modern Democrats are now where the Republicans used to be in the 1980's. Why bother to leave the Republicans at all?

Obama has completed the circle, AFAIC; the Dems are largely just the GOP's softer side.

[Count Chocula]

Most of the overall tone I've picked up on the last two pages is "he didn't get much of anything done because of those obstructionist Republicans (and he's spineless) WAHHHH!!" Uhh folks, until November 2nd The Anointed One had a Democrat Senate and a Democrat House; he didn't need Republicans to go along with his plans! And after the 8 years of Bush he went into office with a hhHHUUUuuge amount of political capital. If you fools think you'll find any "good" Democrats in the next couple of years, well then you're just...ummm...fools. The Dems gave us the best they had; pretty tasty, eh? And by "pretty tasty," I mean "totally NOT tasty!" (5 points to anyone who catches the cartoon reference).

SirNitram listed the things O has gotten done, most of which can be good things or bad things depending on point of view. IMO, most of the "achievements" are shit sandwiches, which in typical Washington style will start to taste really bad when the politicians who passed them are gone. One example is the health care bill, which grows teeth (full implementation) in 2013. Or the two auto makers who got American taxpayers' our children's and grandchildren's Chinese money for their bailouts and dry fucked every middle class investor and municipal pension fund that held GM or Chrysler stock and bond issues. Yeah, that was a good one with immediate negative effects.

And let's not forget about the "Stimulus II" and "Emergency Stimulus" or whatever-the-fuck it was called doubling down of the 2008 Bush presidency's bailout plan. And what about the lame duck passing of the "Food Safety Act?" FDA police! Backyard garden raids! No bake sales! Federal diktats on what can be put in the chilrens' vending machines at school! All possible now. And this week the FCC approved rules for net neutrality! Thanks for the input Verizon and Google! You got what you wanted!

You are disappointed that he hasn't gotten enough done. With. A. Democrat. Majority. In both houses. I think he and Congress have done enough damage already, and more than a few of us saw this coming in 2008. Neener neener!


For the Palin haters, let's do a little comparison between two candidates (hypothetical only, because this did not occur in 2008):

Candidate 1 (C1): Went to college in Hawaii and Idaho, graduating from U of Idaho; transcripts available.
Candidate 2 (C2): Went to college in California and New York, graduating from Columbia University; transcripts in Fort Knox lockdown.
C1: Put college degree in Communications to work as a sportscaster, then in a twist worked in a commercial fishing business.
C2: Put a Political "Science" degree to work as a community organizer and later got a law degree and was president of the Haahvahd Law Review; transcripts locked up tighter than an Amish virgin.
C1: Held elected office from 1992 to 2009, moving up from city council member, city mayor, management of a key state department, to state governor. By 2008, this candidate had a bit over 5 years' business experience and 16 years of political experience.
C2: Worked as a community organizer and college professor for 11 years, then state senator for 7 years; voted "Present" instead of "Yea" or "Nay" about 130 times. Was elected to the US Senate, where the candidate served 1 year before running for President (3 years time in office). Most notable acheivements as US Senator: running for President while serving as Senator and voting for a multi-hundred billion dollar bank bailout.
C1: Frank in their beliefs, with few apparent secrets and a mostly successful track record and business experience, with a somewhat rough around the edges public manner.
C2: Prone to speak in generalities, with no business experience outside of political machines, with an okay track record and a very polished public demeanor - as long as there's a TelePrompTer!

C1: College grad, business experience, almost 16+ years government experience, open about political beliefs, rough around the edges.
C2: Ivy League grad, political machine experience, 10 years government experience, obscure about political beliefs, smooth talker.

It should be obvious who's who above. Really now, how bad a choice for Veep was Palin? Not bad at all, IF you mostly agree with her political and personal views. Hmm, maybe she is viable for 2012.

As for Barry O, well, I barfed a little in my mouth but voted McCain because I saw the train wreck coming, and brother, it's here! I never thought I'd see a living President worse than Jimmy Carter but, to my chagrin, I was wrong.


EDIT for shits and giggles: "You can see Russia, here in the 57th state, where we work 24 hours a day, 364 days a year." Name the politicians harmed in this quotebash.

[Lonestar]

I'm not sure that saying someone is "Honest but spectacularly stupid" makes her more qualified than the other. And if McCain was really dead set on getting a female to "balance the ticket" he could have asked someone like Kay Baily Hutchinson, who I am convinced would not have caused left-leaning folks of moderate intelligence to go running screaming in the other direction.

EDIT: To expand on this, I haven't a clue why anyone with two brain cells would consider Palin a viable President. She fucking quit her job because it was too hard. I know that's the person I want getting the "phone call at 0200"!

This is not to say that Obama is that person, but it really says something that you are going "hurf hurf ran shitty town in Alaska and transcript for a degree in Journalism is public" as if it's a qualification that over comes the whole she resigned as governor because it was too hard thing.