The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

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CaptJodan
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by CaptJodan »

Skylon wrote:Little technicality, as its a space station, but, screw it, I'll say it....Babylon 5.

The remaining cast takes one final look, prophecy is fulfilled as one final transport leaves. The station's eternal rotation ceases. Then, B5 is scuttled in a blast that travels from the reactor at the rear of the station, rending the hull as it travels the length of the station until B5 is consumed by its funeral pyre.

There are lots of little details too such as the support pylons seen only on the interior of the station's core being blasted out during the explosion, the forward portion of the station dipping downward when there is nothing left behind it to support it, and evidence of debris hitting Epsilon 3's atmosphere.

Oh, and Christopher Franke's music was appropriately heart breaking. I teared up when I first watched it honestly. The Ent-Nil's destruction was a punch to the face shock. nBSG's death was somewhat respectful. B5's was just a tear-jerker.
However, for me, B5's death wasn't heroic in any sense to the thread's purpose, really. It didn't go down fighting. It died because it was...somehow a hazard to space and someone might crash into a 5 mile station, as opposed to the hazards coming from the debris from a 5 mile station scattered throughout part of the system and in orbit of Epsilon 3.

It was, however, one of the best deaths in recent sci-fi for dramatic or thematic effect, and a real sad thing. But it still died for a stupid reason, and it wasn't in battle fighting the good fight.

On the B5 front, I've always had a soft spot for the death of an unnamed White Star that hit the Pollux and took it out. It was a short, non-hero-ship death, but it was still a pretty exciting sequence with some pretty great camera angles on the impact.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Enigma »

CaptJodan wrote:<snip>

However, for me, B5's death wasn't heroic in any sense to the thread's purpose, really. It didn't go down fighting. It died because it was...somehow a hazard to space and someone might crash into a 5 mile station, as opposed to the hazards coming from the debris from a 5 mile station scattered throughout part of the system and in orbit of Epsilon 3.

It was, however, one of the best deaths in recent sci-fi for dramatic or thematic effect, and a real sad thing. But it still died for a stupid reason, and it wasn't in battle fighting the good fight.

On the B5 front, I've always had a soft spot for the death of an unnamed White Star that hit the Pollux and took it out. It was a short, non-hero-ship death, but it was still a pretty exciting sequence with some pretty great camera angles on the impact.
It was more than that. B5 was no longer necessary and they also decided to destroy it because they didn't want it to fall into the wrong hands. B5 would have made a great propaganda tool for those against the Interstellar Alliance.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by jollyreaper »

I had the impression that the "menace to navigation" thing was meant to come across as a bullshit rationalization for something the government wanted to do all along. As a not entirely similar comparison, everyone loves the A-10, everyone that is but Air Force brass. So despite the obvious value of the airframe, they keep trying to kill it. They even went so far as to invent an antitank gun to hang off an F-16 but the recoil damaged the hardpoint. Someone ran the figures and it would take three F-16's to equal the ground combat effectiveness of one A-10. Nevertheless, the brass wanted to kill it. Not supersonic, not a fighter or a strategic bomber, no not want. Fuck the Army. But don't let the Army operate armed fixed-wing aircraft, damn it. The Iraqistan war has put off the retirement plans. If those wars ever end, the brass will be right back to swearing F-22's and F-35's make great replacements and at 50x the cost are a total steal.

The only question, of course, is who could order the destruction of the president's old command, especially if he wasn't willing to go along with it? Be a different case if he remained old Captain Sheridan who's now retired and collecting a pension and old enemies on the Admiralty Board wanted to scuttle the station as an FU to him. In that case, "menace to navigation" would be the perfect sort of bullshit rationale.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Skylon »

CaptJodan wrote: However, for me, B5's death wasn't heroic in any sense to the thread's purpose, really. It didn't go down fighting. It died because it was...somehow a hazard to space and someone might crash into a 5 mile station, as opposed to the hazards coming from the debris from a 5 mile station scattered throughout part of the system and in orbit of Epsilon 3.

It was, however, one of the best deaths in recent sci-fi for dramatic or thematic effect, and a real sad thing. But it still died for a stupid reason, and it wasn't in battle fighting the good fight.
Yeah, fair enough. I kinda got side-tracked from the original point of the thread and just based in on the title.

It may not have been in battle, but it did its job, and then was destroyed. nBSG didn't go down in battle, yet it has been mentioned in this thread.

I always thought that "menace to navigation" was bullshit put out by Earth's PR department. Earth was never crazy about building or operating the station (and they had control of the station again by the time of "Sleeping in Light"). If it was no longer being used even as a commercial trading hub, that would render it pretty useless. If there are weapons systems and equipment that could not be removed easily, then destroying it may have been the easiest way to destroy it, without risking it becoming a hiding place for raiders, or some other type of squatters.
On the B5 front, I've always had a soft spot for the death of an unnamed White Star that hit the Pollux and took it out. It was a short, non-hero-ship death, but it was still a pretty exciting sequence with some pretty great camera angles on the impact.
That's one of my favorite effects sequences in B5. I especially liked the final viewpoint of the White Star as it crashes towards the Pollux being from within that destroyer's hanger.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

I nominate the HMS Thunder Child from The War of the Worlds. She goes down fighting to save civilians, charging in heedless of the well-known danger of the Heat Rays. Downs one Martian, gets burned but keeps on going, finally exploding when her magazine goes up but taking a second Martian with it. Sounds rather like nBSG Pegasus actually.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by dworkin »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:I nominate the HMS Thunder Child from The War of the Worlds. She goes down fighting to save civilians, charging in heedless of the well-known danger of the Heat Rays. Downs one Martian, gets burned but keeps on going, finally exploding when her magazine goes up but taking a second Martian with it. Sounds rather like nBSG Pegasus actually.
Seconded. Also, the captain of Thunder Child isn't on record as wibbling for several chapters. He could of been. Kinda doubtful though :D
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Ted C »

White Star X from B5 "The Long Night".

You don't actually see the ship's death, but Sheridan orders Ericsson and his crew to die in battle with the Shadows so the Shadows can capture a false message that will bring them to Coriana 6 for a final battle.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by SAMAS »

Seconding the Resolute.

And although it's kinda stretching the definition of "ship", the Steam Tower/Castle in Steamboy: A massive blast of flash-freezing steam in the middle of the Thames River,

Because this will be a Spoiler to those who may be following a certain thread: Spoiler
The destruction of the Rio Grande in Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Notable in that the event happens to be an echo of a similar situation in the first battle of the series, but with Bucock, it comes across as an honorable end to a soldier, rather than Hood just being a hot-headed jerk.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Havok »

The original USS Defiant. It wasn't a grand suicide mission or anything, but it was pretty good.

Also, Weyoun's last line in the scene is great; "Poor Captain Sisko. I believe he was rather fond of that ship." :twisted:
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Verex »

I just have one question regarding the Executor's Death in RotJ, Why in the name of sanity would you build a ship that large and that powerful with only 1 command bridge, and why would you put the bridge near the exterior of the ship? my logic is do like the covenant with something that massive and put the bridge in the core of the ship under the armor, it isnt like have a window veiw really helps to maneuver it without external cameras and it Deff doesnt raise the resell value.... jsut sayin.

And I'm a huge fan of when the Terran-Vasudan Collossus meets it's end to the second Sathanas after it just barely manages to crush the first engagement. The feeling of relief i felt as i whatched it break apart was immense, needless to say i stuck around a few extra minutes after RtB orderss were given to put a punch into the new juggernaut to vent my anger at being defeated.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

There are multiple references to auxilliary command bridges on Imperial ships. Even Correlian Corvette's had them according to X-Wing: Wraith Squadron. I believe the point was that the ship went out of control and crashed before the backup bridge coudl take over. This is borne out by the film sequence:

1. A wing crashed into bridge
2. Bridge tower heavily damaged
3. Ackbar and Co watch and cheer as the Executor veers out of control
4. executor impacts DS2 and blows up. Kinda implies a VERY rapid death

As for putting the bridges in plain sight, I believe it has to do with the design of Imperial warships as terror weapons. Putting the bridge in plain sight makes the bold statement that the ships are so strong and powerful that the bridge doesn't NEED to be buried in armour plate.

Yours (and the Covenants) logic is sound for designing warships, but the ISD's and their relatives were meant to be psychological weapons as well
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

Stark wrote:So explain why all non-Empire ships do the same thing. Oops.
Yeah, it's a pretty stupid rationalization. If you must have some in-universe reason, just say that it's a millennia old tradition, and because the primary protection of capital ships is the shields, most ship designers do not think that placing the primary bridge inside the main hull is worth breaking the tradition. But in general it's better not to invent any in-universe explanation at all...
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

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Because in the OT and early EU stuff, non-Empire ships where either civilian, so wouldn't need to worry about exposed bridges (indeed, you might even like the view) or ships converted from civilian ships (Mon Cal cruisers) or ships captured from the Empire or Imperial designs (ISD, VSD's, Nebulon frigates).

And just to be picky, X-Wing: Isard's Revenge describes the captured VSD Swift Liberty under Admiral Areta Bell, as being commanded in battle from the Combat Command Centre (described as "deep within the ship") at the first battle of Liinade III
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Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Stark »

You mean, that command centre all ships have but nobody in the OT is shown using? Not seeing your point. Is the Republic fleet styled for intimidation? How much sense does it even MAKE to have a fleet with 'intimidation' as a big deal? Since the primary defence of any SW ship is shielding, and this is strongest around the bridge, is a central command centre demonstrably more survivable?
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Stark wrote:Not seeing your point
That was just to show that you were wrong in saying that all non-Empire ships had Imperial-style exposed bridges.
Stark wrote:Is the Republic fleet styled for intimidation?
The ship designs are, because a lot of them in the 0-10 ABY period are Imperial designs.

Stark wrote:How much sense does it even MAKE to have a fleet with 'intimidation' as a big deal?
If you're the Empire, apparently a lot. If you can, by virtue of having warships designed a certain way persuade rebellious planets to surrender without a fight that's a good thing

And for an out-of-universe answer, it's what people expect from a "bridge" of a ship. A clear view of where you're going, somewhere for the captain or whatever to stand and contemplate, whatever.

At any rate Stark you're derailing the thread again. It's about the best ship deaths in sci-fi. verex asked a question, I gave him the answer that's been floating around in the EU for a while. End of.
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Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Stark »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:That was just to show that you were wrong in saying that all non-Empire ships had Imperial-style exposed bridges.
Why, because a ship used an internal bridge once? Prove that other ships don't also have them. Victorys do have exposed bridges.
The ship designs are, because a lot of them in the 0-10 ABY period are Imperial designs.
How about those ones in the fucking Republic, dumbass? Is a Venator (with not one, but TWO exposed bridges) styled for intimidation? Intimidating... the robots?

If you're the Empire, apparently a lot. If you can, by virtue of having warships designed a certain way persuade rebellious planets to surrender without a fight that's a good thing
Is your conclusion your evidence?
And for an out-of-universe answer, it's what people expect from a "bridge" of a ship. A clear view of where you're going, somewhere for the captain or whatever to stand and contemplate, whatever.
So... what? How is it even a problem?
At any rate Stark you're derailing the thread again. It's about the best ship deaths in sci-fi. verex asked a question, I gave him the answer that's been floating around in the EU for a while. End of.
The STUPID answer. In other words, someone asked a question and you led them off into stupid fairy land. WOW, I bet he loves that! :lol: The have exposed bridges because 'why not', when the ship will quickly expode anyway once the shields go down.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Uncluttered »

Stark wrote:So explain why all non-Empire ships do the same thing. Oops.

Nice thread while it lasted. Too bad someone thinks its a debate thread........

Back on topic.

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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Nautillus anyone, also liked thunderchild and discovery.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Discovery is an interesting one. Certainly a noble death. And I suppose getting caught in Jupiter exploding counts as a "blaze of glory."

Incidentally, Yosemite, to which Nautillus are you referring?
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

either Nemo going down fighting the squid, or being consumed by a volcano in the book sequel both qualify.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Good choices
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by inviz345 »

Starbug from red dwarf taking out there evil future selves.
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Re: The Best Deaths for Ships in Sci-Fi

Post by Lagmonster »

And nobody mentions the Ko-Dan mothership slamming into a moon. Damn shame.

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