Ultramarines Reviews (Spoilers)

[Stravo]

Hi all. I know we have the topic for the movie release but I thought it made sense to make a separate thread for reviews of the movie to keep the release thread spoiler free.

Below is my review:


It was a fine attempt IMO. I wasn't let down much because I managed my expectations knowing that it was a small company on a tight budget so don't think you're going to see Avatar with Ultramarines. It told a nice condensed story and they were good at building up the tension but there were definitely some weaknesses and gripes.

The Good

The voice acting especially from Stamp and Pertwee was spot on and excellent. John Hurt as the Chaplain was very good too because he gives his character a sinister edge to his voice without going overboard and who can't love "BURN HERETIC!" as he releases the power of his croizius. BTW I am a relative noob to the fluff but I thought the Crozius was simply a power weapon. What weapon effect did he release on the Black Legion in that scene?

The battle scenes were generally well done. I liked the military precision of the SM when they fought in discpolined ranks and seeing how hardy they were with shots going into then, chain axes flying into shoulder plates and they were still fighting. Dug the bolter sound FX.

The story was simple and easy to follow however there were some weaknesses I'll get into.

Nice twist ending (though it was telegraphed and I saw it coming way before it happened)

Good character development for Proteus. All along I thought that he was going to be the weak link in the chain and turn to Chaos with his eagerness and headstrong character.

Loved the character design of the Chaplain. That skull helmet with all the runes was awesome.



The Bad

Chaos? Really? Don't you think we could have had more fun with the repelling of an Ork Waagh or having to recover a holy relic from Ork held territory. I think Chaos as a villain choice requires a little too much exposition and you really need to know the universe already to really uinderstand what is happening. I watched this with my wife and she was confused about what exactly are Chaos SM and what is the difference. Initially she thought they were facing zombies. Orks on the other hand are pretty easy to exlain and would have added a nice comedic touch to the constant grimdark. Hell, it could have been Necrons too. A simpler villain that stands out from the Ultramarines they are fighting. As it stood you really had fights between two different colored marines.

The character animation was a little off in some scenes especially when they were walking. It sometimes looked like their feet were not touching the ground and many of the fight scenes were repetitive. How many times does the demon at the end slam a different SM into the same pillar in the Reclusiarm? The same flaming brazier stood there and I was half expecting the demon to dunk one of the Marines into that brazier but instead we have the same motions but different marine in its clutches. A lot of the character movement was not as fluid as I would have liked.

Characters appearing out of nowhere. Especially apparent in that final fight with the demon. How many times did one of the random marines, including a moribund apothecary just step in to interupt the demon. The fight chorerogrpahy was very limited and dull.


The Ugly

"That tome is a warp gate - it can destroy Macragge." UGH. Really?! The old only we can stop the world from being destroyed gag? I'm sorry but one of the cool things about the 40k verse is how tiny everyone is in respect the the million world Imperium but these three guys are going to stop Macragge - not any other random million worlds of the Imperium - from being destroyed. Yuck. No.

Some of the animation was really ugly. In particular the doors opening when the Thunderhawk departs looked really bad, some of the closeups of the faces and especially the scene where the marine loses the back of his head is poorly animated.


Stupid Chaos SM. The whole charge like idiots into hails of bolter fire kind of flies in the face of what I imagined Chaos SM would fight like. These were not Khorne berserkers but Black Legion. And I get that they wanted the SM to feel like they had just escaped with their lives but that could have been done with long range fire from all angles. Why are they charging like morons into a prepared position with automatic weapons? These are supposed to be as highly trained warriors as the SM brethren instead they were acting like Orks with riod rage. Silly.




Overall I liked the movie for what it was. It was really cool to see 40k on the screen. It was cool to see the action and the dialogue but there is so much potential here that I want to see more of and I hope to follow up with hopefully a bigger budget and larger story.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

I think I enjoyed the movie more than you did. Let me re-review the movie.

First of all, the animation quality did not bother me in the slightest, even when it was choppy, translucent and weightless. I grew up watching the old Harryhausen Sinbad movies, Krull, Red Dwarf and Babylon 5, and I still think their special effects look awesome, so I may not be the most critical judge of quality animation. I loved Doctor Who (Sylvester McCoy years) and the extremely low-budget Call of Cthulhu movie, too, so I don't mind low production values.

That said, there are some scenes that surprised me with how good they looked. The director used a lot of interesting shots to cover for the low budget animation. The design work also helped the movie tremendously, especially for the Chaplain and the daemon. The Ultramarines themselves were difficult to distinguish on my first viewing, but they looked solid. My wife's comments were "Nice paint job" and "Hey, I've painted some of those" when she saw the Chaos Marines. Seeing the landspeeder and Thunderhawk in action was quite a thrill, too.

The voice acting was really strong. I can't think of one character who sounded like he was phoning it in or giving the ol' Superfriends half-assed voiceover. That said, Pertwee and Hurt's voices were the ones that really stood out for me.

The music and sound effects were also top notch, although there could have been more music. (Maybe I'm just saying that because I liked it.)

As for the plot, to me it felt like one of the old Black Library short stories from the DeathWing, Dark Imperium and What Price Victory days. Being familiar with such stories, I saw the twist coming from about the moment Severus and the daemon prince fell out of the shrine together. I still enjoyed it, though. My wife, however was caught by surprise. She was sure it was Nidon, or maybe the Chaplain.

There were some parts where the movie was trying to build tension that just stretched out too far and felt like an attempt to stretch the budget. The first half had a few boring moments and some "Space Marines do not work that way" moments (walking instead of running, lack of autosenses, etc.). The second half really paid off on a lot of the character building in the first half and was very exciting. I like the mirroring of the training exercise in the beginning and "yield to me". The coda at the end was fairly obvious and my wife thought it was "cute". A lot of the dialogue was repetitive and bombastic, but that tends to be the case with brainwashed soldiers, so that's okay. Dan Abnett at least used the script to turn their mantras into themes for the characters. There were a lot of nice touches in the writing even if the plot itself was very simple and straight forward for a movie.

Of course, what everyone really cares about is the action, so let me get to it. I enjoyed the action a lot. There are certain fights that stand out for me, such as the shrine, Severus' dramatic entrance, and the final fight with the daemon, which I have watched a few times. The gore was a little too much for my wife, but I really enjoyed it. The daemon was suitably fast and vicious and I liked the way he tossed marines around like rag dolls. The Black Legion acted suitably chaotic. I suppose I would have been more upset if they were Iron Warriors or Alpha Legion running to their deaths like that, but these were Abbadon's boys, whom he personally trained (I assume). We're lucky they didn't retreat and declare victory while killing their own underlings. Also, it's pretty clear that they were meant to fail, as Mithron was a trap.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Sorry to cut my review short, but my computer is having some problems, apparently.

Anyway, I enjoyed the movie a lot overall, but I would definitely warn people not to expect a slick Hollywood-style film from it.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

I'm just going to revive this thread a bit because I still want to talk about my new purchase and the threads on other sites are all still stuck on delivery issues.

BTW I am a relative noob to the fluff but I thought the Crozius was simply a power weapon. What weapon effect did he release on the Black Legion in that scene?

That was odd. I can only guess that it was supposed to evoke the image of a crucifix fending off vampires. On the other hand, it was interesting than seeing him just using it as a glowing club.

Loved the character design of the Chaplain. That skull helmet with all the runes was awesome.

I'm definitely going to be basing a character conversion off of him, if I can find enough spare skulls lying around.

Also, I might just paint my Daemon Prince's shoulder pad blue...

Chaos? Really? Don't you think we could have had more fun with the repelling of an Ork Waagh or having to recover a holy relic from Ork held territory. I think Chaos as a villain choice requires a little too much exposition and you really need to know the universe already to really uinderstand what is happening. I watched this with my wife and she was confused about what exactly are Chaos SM and what is the difference. Initially she thought they were facing zombies. Orks on the other hand are pretty easy to exlain and would have added a nice comedic touch to the constant grimdark. Hell, it could have been Necrons too. A simpler villain that stands out from the Ultramarines they are fighting. As it stood you really had fights between two different colored marines.

I think Chaos was chosen to save money in the design and modelling phase, since they are essentially Ultramarines with new colors. I would love to see some Tyranids next time.

Overall I liked the movie for what it was. It was really cool to see 40k on the screen. It was cool to see the action and the dialogue but there is so much potential here that I want to see more of and I hope to follow up with hopefully a bigger budget and larger story.

I think we both agree on that. Hopefully the disaster of a launch for Ultramarines won't kill the company's chances for making another movie.

[white_rabbit]

BTW I am a relative noob to the fluff but I thought the Crozius was simply a power weapon. What weapon effect did he release on the Black Legion in that scene?

I think they were going for the warding off of unholy shit, vampire, crucifix etc, as Bob suggests.

There is as I recall, one example of a Crozius, or a similar type of power weapon that can project its powerfield as an energy blast. I severely doubt this is what was referenced though, since its the fairly obscure " Rod of Grace " that the SoB special character Helena the Virtuous uses. It was pretty neat either way.



I loved the whole thing, I hope this starts a series of such films etc. I think they could have done more with the music, although most of the time it was well suited to the atmosphere of the story.

They did seem to be fighting the short bus squadron of the Black Legion, but then again the Black Legion not only recruits newbies more often, its also got crazy berserkers alongside hardened veterans.

As bob has mentioned as well, a few bits where I thought "space marines don't work that way" , but there were some great visuals, and the Landspeeder and the Thunderhawk were awesome.

[Darmalus]

I'd like to echo that I loved the movie, and hope to see more in the future.

I was wondering, what parts felt like "space marines don't work that way"? Most of my library has IG and Inquisition stories, so my SM knowledge is from their perspective (and the video games). Anything subtle would fly right past me.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

For one thing, Space Marines should never mock one of their battle brothers because he thinks he's spotted an enemy.

Also, Space Marines can run fast and have inhuman stamina. There is no reason for them to walk everywhere when they could be running, jogging, or loping. They also would likely have spread out a bit more to increase the range of their senses/effective killzone, since their combat doctrine is not based on numbers but rather on individual effectiveness. Their autosenses, IR vision, etc., should have done a lot more to cut through the murk (unless it was heavily unnatural, which Severus didn't seem to think was the case) considering their gear was designed to be used in the harshest environments.

Then there is the fact that they seemed to die to wounds that shouldn't have killed Space Marines. When one of them gets a chainaxe lodged in his shoulder, it affects him pretty seriously, but in the fluff and some BL novels, Space Marines often lose limbs (and in one case, half a head) without slowing down until they've finished killing their enemies or died trying. Part of the problem is that some sources portray the Space Marines as superhumanly durable and some portray them as nearly normal humans in eqqshell armor. The worst portrayal I can think of is when Ben Counter had medieval-style spearmen take out a bunch of power-armored Grey Knights...with their spears.

[Black Admiral]

The worst portrayal I can think of is when Ben Counter had medieval-style spearmen take out a bunch of power-armored Grey Knights...with their spears.

The medieval army only managed to kill one GK, and for all the detail that's provided (e.g. naff all), it was most likely a case of "Quickly men - wear out his arms!".

[Bob the Gunslinger]

I suppose it could be a case of Zapp Brannigan tactics. "Come on, men. Let's drown the enemy in our blood!"

It comes across like "Those Greek Hoplites only managed to kill one M1A1 Abrams tank." Still pretty silly.

[Meest]

Thought it was pretty meh, and the opposite of showing how Space Marines are above the average guardsman. Sure they were novices or whatever but I thought they're supposed to be ingrained with Codex tactics. Also wouldn't they have seen combat as scouts? Or just implying haven't fought in full armour yet, just came across as contrived the whole situation (single squad on a battle barge/strike cruiser with a captain, Severus shares same name as first company Severus?).

So are they supposed to just stand in the open? Are they not supposed to vox and be organized, on the ship a daemon is loose yet no communication. Think it was just all limited to what the animation could do and it showed. Also made Chaos look retarded and non threatening other than their daemon (possessed marine or daemon on the loose he kept trying to get new bodies).

Only one real exciting moment for me was the return of the Captain, the speed and ferocity of that action should of been the standard. Though at the same time it made me think his bolt pistol is kicking ass so why are the Chaos close combat guys with bolt pistols sucking it up.

[Sinewmire]

Yeah, I felt the main problem in the action scenes was the lack of threat. The Black Legion missed 100% until a character ran out of hitpoints, and then BAM, 50 hits in the face. They were supposed to be pulling back, but it never felt like they had any need to - they were quite clearly kicking the ass of about 50 chaos marines. How many more could there be? Did a SINGLE chaos marine make it into close combat?

I did like the twist at the end. I was expecting Brother Nidon to have been the source of the chaos outbreak, they really managed a fake-out there.

Whilst I wasn't too bothered by the poor quality cgi, it did seem a bit strange to give us long, loving shots designed to make us go "oooh" over animation that looked crap. Captain Severus and Apothecary Pythas locking eyes, for example - neither seemed to be looking at the other.

I don't feel the Chaos marines actually added anything to the plot or action. Just a single Possessed would have done fine.

I liked the atmosphere as well, very good, tense build-up.

Chaos Space marines shouldn't hiss in a high-pitched fashion. The Daemon squealed like a pig a lot, which I found a little jarring.

Overall, I'd say 7/10.

[Commander 598]

Yeah, I felt the main problem in the action scenes was the lack of threat. The Black Legion missed 100% until a character ran out of hitpoints, and then BAM, 50 hits in the face. They were supposed to be pulling back, but it never felt like they had any need to - they were quite clearly kicking the ass of about 50 chaos marines. How many more could there be? Did a SINGLE chaos marine make it into close combat?

There were enough of them that the Thunderhawk found something to use as an excuse to make several large explosions when it finally arrived.

[Elessar]

Yeah, I felt the main problem in the action scenes was the lack of threat. The Black Legion missed 100% until a character ran out of hitpoints, and then BAM, 50 hits in the face. They were supposed to be pulling back, but it never felt like they had any need to - they were quite clearly kicking the ass of about 50 chaos marines. How many more could there be? Did a SINGLE chaos marine make it into close combat?

I agree. I watched the movie today and found that considering the tactics of the Ultramarines (seriously, do they ever use cover?), the fact that they weren't mowed down made it feel like they were facing Chaos PDF. Certainly not what I'd expect from an equivalent force.

If the Black Legion fought like that initially, I'm surprised the Fists took any casualties defending the shrine.

I did like the twist at the end. I was expecting Brother Nidon to have been the source of the chaos outbreak, they really managed a fake-out there.

A few people here expected it. I was just confused by the blank book. I mean, was the book always a daemon trap? If so, then what the hell was an entire company of Imperial Fists guarding?

Overall, I think I was let-down by the difference from the fluff (odd considering Abnett wrote the screenplay). Most of the books I've read make SM / CSM to be practical gods on the battlefield. These guys played into a lot of cliches (charging into automatic fire) and despite the discipline, it was still very disappointing. They could have redone the whole thing with Guardsmen on both sides and it would have felt a lot more natural.

In fact, now that I think about it, there's not much that they do that is particularly superhuman. Making across the broken bridge via concrete columns was probably the most impressive. They didn't have any 'regular' people to really compare the marines to, so you don't get a sense of their epic stature and fearlessness in the face of certain death.

[Connor MacLeod]

I suppose it could be a case of Zapp Brannigan tactics. "Come on, men. Let's drown the enemy in our blood!"

It comes across like "Those Greek Hoplites only managed to kill one M1A1 Abrams tank." Still pretty silly.

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. Get enough people up close and even a Grey Knight is going to be overwhelmed and vulnerable. Its not like the body armor is one solid block of impenetrable metal - there are joints, seams, poorly armored flexible spots and suchnot to exploit. Not to mention general wear and tear (They'd been operating pretty constantly in that region of space prior to events.)

Also, as much as we might hate to remember, this IS 40K, and stuff like "magic swords and bows" really do exist, especially where Chaos is involved. I mean look at some of the artillery Khorne fields for crying out loud.

[Sinewmire]

A few people here expected it. I was just confused by the blank book. I mean, was the book always a daemon trap? If so, then what the hell was an entire company of Imperial Fists guarding?

Overall, I think I was let-down by the difference from the fluff (odd considering Abnett wrote the screenplay). Most of the books I've read make SM / CSM to be practical gods on the battlefield. These guys played into a lot of cliches (charging into automatic fire) and despite the discipline, it was still very disappointing. They could have redone the whole thing with Guardsmen on both sides and it would have felt a lot more natural.

I'd imagine the book was a corrupt book, that must be kept from Chaos, and that it could only be read by saturating it with Warp power. As such they were keeping it away from the forces of Chaos. Or something.

Abnett did write the screenplay - but he didn't neccessarily choreograph the fight scenes. More along the lines of "They fight, Brother Redshirtius and Brother Cannonfodderius are killed, a flamer explodes, destroying the world".

[Elaro]

The Ugly

"That tome is a warp gate - it can destroy Macragge." UGH. Really?! The old only we can stop the world from being destroyed gag? I'm sorry but one of the cool things about the 40k verse is how tiny everyone is in respect the the million world Imperium but these three guys are going to stop Macragge - not any other random million worlds of the Imperium - from being destroyed. Yuck. No.

Well, I figured that the tome was going to make a warp gate where the ship was going to come back into realspace. So if they had gone to Algol, Algol would be the planet with a Strike Cruiser-sized warp anomaly hovering over it. Or something.

But one wonders why Ultima Squad didn't try to head back to Algol, where they had left a fight and a fellow company?

[Elessar]

Well, I figured that the tome was going to make a warp gate where the ship was going to come back into realspace. So if they had gone to Algol, Algol would be the planet with a Strike Cruiser-sized warp anomaly hovering over it. Or something.

But one wonders why Ultima Squad didn't try to head back to Algol, where they had left a fight and a fellow company?

I was under the impression that they were bringing the warp book back to Macragge for safe keeping. The Ultramarines do this with a number of other artifacts, such as the Nightbringer's ship's remote control.