Warp/Hyperdrive ramming:either they can't hit anything,or...

JodoForce · Post by **JodoForce** » 2003-02-25 03:46am

Or they must destroy everything and anything in their path!

If I am not mistaken the momentum and kinetic energy of a massed object at lightspeed is already infinity right?

If two objects collide at faster-than-light speeds, can I assume the object travelling faster-than-light has at least as much kinetic energy as an object of equal mass at lightspeed? In which case the other object would have to have infinite structural strength to survive, and would in any case be flung away from the battlefield at lightspeed right?

However such a conclusion would violate the conservation of energy, because the ramming ship did not consume an infinite amount of energy to go to warp / hyperdrive right?

For warp drive, the energy of the impact maybe is equal to the energy of the impact at its speed divided by the warp factor (not the warp number, but the multiplier that warp drive gives to the actual sublight speed), in which case it doesn't matter whether warp drive was engaged for ramming or not?

For hyperdrive, ???

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-25 03:51am

JodoForce wrote:Or they must destroy everything and anything in their path!

If I am not mistaken the momentum and kinetic energy of a massed object at lightspeed is already infinity right?

Actually, it's undefined and asymptotic, which is why nothing can go at exactly lightspeed. However, an object going FASTER than lightspeed does not require infinite energy.

If two objects collide at faster-than-light speeds, can I assume the object travelling faster-than-light has at least as much kinetic energy as an object of equal mass at lightspeed? In which case the other object would have to have infinite structural strength to survive, and would in any case be flung away from the battlefield at lightspeed right?

I have no idea how a tachyonic object would interact with a normal object.

For warp drive, the energy of the impact maybe is equal to the energy of the impact at its speed divided by the warp factor (not the warp number, but the multiplier that warp drive gives to the actual sublight speed), in which case it doesn't matter whether warp drive was engaged for ramming or not?

Warp drive is like a conveyor belt. By the time a warp-driven ship is about to hit you, you're on the conveyor belt too, or the conveyor belt has slowed down, so the relative velocity is distinctly subluminal.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-02-25 08:12am

Isn't .5c possible, and 1.5c possible, but accelerating from .5c to 1c impossible?

God I hate this tachyoen shit.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-02-25 08:25am

Darth Wong wrote:
in which case it doesn't matter whether warp drive was engaged for ramming or not?
Warp drive is like a conveyor belt. By the time a warp-driven ship is about to hit you, you're on the conveyor belt too, or the conveyor belt has slowed down

I took a little licence with that in my fanfic and used a Borg sphere to ram an ISD, the shields were extended beyond the warp field to make that work.

However I gave my borg more intelligence than the real ones...

smokemare · Post by **smokemare** » 2003-02-25 10:15am

Gave the Borg intelligience ? Isn't that a bit unrealistic ?

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2003-02-25 11:58am

'Borg' and 'Intelligence' is a contradiction in terms.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-02-25 04:14pm

It's artistic licence, if I get back to writing it the borg are truly going to be squashed for their insolence though.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-02-25 05:20pm

Do the Cubes just sit there while the Borg fleet is being mauled by the Imps?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-25 05:56pm

Admiral Johnason wrote:Do the Cubes just sit there while the Borg fleet is being mauled by the Imps?

Like the cubes did in STFC, and in BOBW, and in "Scorpion"?

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2003-02-25 06:17pm

Darth Wong wrote:Like the cubes did in STFC, and in BOBW, and in "Scorpion"?

Hey, in "Scorpion" they moved around and got mauled.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-02-25 07:07pm

Hey, in "Scorpion" they moved around and got mauled.

In straight lines...

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-02-25 08:39pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Isn't .5c possible, and 1.5c possible, but accelerating from .5c to 1c impossible?

God I hate this tachyoen shit.

Yeah.

You can accelerate toward c but never reach it. The mass/energy of the ship becomes an asymptote. In order for an object with mass to reach c would require infinite energy and create infinite mass.

However, objects with mass can travel faster than c. When faster than c, it takes energy to approach c just like as accelerating up to c. Therefore, energy loss makes you go faster. Drag would actually cause increase in speed.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-02-25 09:20pm

Quick question, are the borg actually ruled by Bill Gates and he is just collecting insurance off of them to fund his evil plans?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-25 11:12pm

Admiral Johnason wrote:Quick question, are the borg actually ruled by Bill Gates and he is just collecting insurance off of them to fund his evil plans?

Actually....it does seem as though those cubes are running windows....they do seem to crash and burn for no good reason....have totally inexplicable behvaiour and demonstrate no capability for innnovation.....

JodoForce · Post by **JodoForce** » 2003-02-26 02:29am

So... I was just wondering whether it makes sense to engage warp / hyperdrive when ramming... it would seem that warp wouldn't be much use because it only causes space dilation, not increase in speed / momentum / kinetic energy.

But engaging hyperdrive would make sense since according to the definition, it 'accelerates to close to light speed' before it 'changes the starship to a tachyonic state' right? The best ramming sequence would be to accelerate using the hyperdrive, then override the state change, instead disengaging the mass-lightening field, then have your ship collapse like a black hole as it rams into the enemy like a flying neutron star

On a side note, a mass-lightening field would seem to be another technology that violates conservation of energy

unless it expends as much energy as it tries to save from the engine having to propel the ship.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-02-26 02:38am

Whoever came up with the "mass-lightening" fields should be raped with glass fragments.

JodoForce · Post by **JodoForce** » 2003-02-26 05:48am

Hm. Just wondering why no mass driver weapons ever appeared in either Wars or Trek.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-02-26 08:11am

Admiral Johnason wrote:Do the Cubes just sit there while the Borg fleet is being mauled by the Imps?

The bit where the ISD gets rammed? Well it was four dreadnoughts one VSD and an ISD against several thousand cubes. And the dreadnaughts and VSD survive (though it takes damage)

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-02-26 09:55am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Whoever came up with the "mass-lightening" fields should be raped with glass fragments.

Not only that, if there was such a field, "disengaging" it would simply slow the ship down abruptly.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-02-26 05:21pm

Only in atmosphere. In vacuum, only the acceleration is affected by the sudden increase in mass.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-02-26 05:24pm

Wouldn't the sudden increase in inertia slow it down?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-26 06:08pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:Only in atmosphere. In vacuum, only the acceleration is affected by the sudden increase in mass.

I should think altering the mass would alter the kenetic energy that it possessed.....if it remained unchanged a huge amount of energy has just been "created"......

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-26 10:45pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:
Darth Yoshi wrote:Only in atmosphere. In vacuum, only the acceleration is affected by the sudden increase in mass.
I should think altering the mass would alter the kenetic energy that it possessed.....if it remained unchanged a huge amount of energy has just been "created"......

Which would bring us back to Slartibartfast's statement that a sudden increase in mass (even in vacuum) would either slow the object down or require an input of K.E. to maintain velocity.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-26 10:52pm

Darth Servo wrote: Which would bring us back to Slartibartfast's statement that a sudden increase in mass (even in vacuum) would either slow the object down or require an input of K.E. to maintain velocity.

Yeah, thats how I was thinking.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-02-27 12:34am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Wouldn't the sudden increase in inertia slow it down?

Oh yeah, that's right.

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Warp/Hyperdrive ramming:either they can't hit anything,or...

Warp/Hyperdrive ramming:either they can't hit anything,or...

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