Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abroad

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Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abroad

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How Ileana Ros-Lehtinen killed the bill to prevent forced child marriages
Incoming House Foreign Affairs chairwoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL) defeated a bill Thursday evening that would have committed the United States to combating forced child marriages abroad, by invoking concerns about the legislation's cost and that funds could be used to promote abortion. The episode highlights the tough road that the Obama administration will face in advancing its women's rights and foreign aid agenda during the next Congressional session.

Non-governmental organizations, women's rights advocates, and lawmakers from both parties spent years developing and lobbying for the "International Protecting Girls by Preventing Child Marriage Act of 2010," which the House failed to pass in a vote Thursday. The bill failed even though 241 Congressmen voted for it and only 166 voted against, because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) brought it up under "suspension of the rules." This procedure has the advantage of not allowing any amendments or changes to the bill, but carries the disadvantage of requiring two-thirds of the votes for passage.

Even still, supporters in both parties fully expected the bill to garner the 290 votes needed -- right up until the bill failed. After all, it passed the Senate unanimously Dec. 1 with the co-sponsorship of several Republicans, including Appropriations Committee ranking Republican Thad Cochran (R-MS), Foreign Relations Committee member Roger Wicker (R-MS), and human rights advocate Sam Brownback (R-KS).

If passed, the bill would have authorized the president to provide assistance "to prevent the incidence of child marriage in developing countries through the promotion of educational, health, economic, social, and legal empowerment of girls and women." It would have also mandated that the administration develop a multi-year strategy on the issue and that the State Department include the incidence of forced child marriage during its annual evaluation of countries' human rights practices.

So what happened? Ros-Lehtinen first argued that the bill was simply unaffordable. In a Dec. 16 "Dear Colleague" letter, she objected to the cost of the bill, which would be $108 million over five years, and criticized it for not providing an accounting of how much the U.S. was already spending on this effort. The actual CBO estimate (PDF) said the bill would authorize $108 million, but would only require $67 million in outlays from fiscal years 2011 to 2015.

Ros-Lehtinen introduced her own version of the bill, which she said would only cost $1 million. But in a fact sheet (PDF), organizations supporting the original legislation said that Ros-Lehtinen's bill removed the implementation procedures that gave the legislation teeth. "Without such activities, the bill becomes merely a strategy with no actual implementation. And without implementation of a strategy, the bill will have an extraordinarily limited impact," they wrote.

Regardless, the supporters still thought the bill would pass because House Republican leadership had not come out against it. But about one hour before the vote, every Republican House office received a message on the bill from GOP leadership, known as a Whip Alert, saying that leadership would vote "no" on the bill and encouraging all Republicans do the same. The last line on the alert particularly shocked the bill's supporters.

"There are also concerns that funding will be directed to NGOs that promote and perform abortion and efforts to combat child marriage could be usurped as a way to overturn pro-life laws," the alert read.

The bill doesn't contain any funding for abortion activities and federal funding for abortion activities is already prohibited by what's known as the "Helms Amendment," which has been boiler plate language in appropriations bills since 1973.

Invoking the abortion issue sent the bill's supporters reeling. They believed that it was little more than a stunt, considering that Republican pro-life senators had carefully reviewed the legislation and concluded it would not have an impact on the abortion issue.

Rep. Stephen LaTourrette (R-OH) called out the Republican leadership for invoking the abortion issue to defeat the forced child marriage act in a floor speech Friday morning.

"Yesterday I was on the floor and I was a co-sponsor with [on] a piece of legislation with [Rep. Betty McCollum (D-MN)] that would have moved money, no new money, would have moved money so that societies that are coercing young girls into marriage... we could make sure that they stay in school so they're not forced into marriage at the age of 12 and 13," LaTourette said. "All of a sudden there was a fiscal argument. When that didn't work people had to add an abortion element to it. This is a partisan place. I'm a Republican. I'm glad we beat their butt in the election, but there comes a time when enough is enough."

But it was too late for LaTourette and other Republicans who had fought hard for the bill, including Aaron Schock (R-IL). The bill is even less likely to pass next year, when the GOP will control the House and Ros-Lehtinen will control the Foreign Affairs committee.

The main author of the bill was Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-IL), who was incensed when the bill failed in the House.

"The action on the House floor stopping the Child Marriage bill tonight will endanger the lives of millions of women and girls around the world," Durbin said in a Thursday statement. "These young girls, enslaved in marriage, will be brutalized and many will die when their young bodies are torn apart while giving birth. Those who voted to continue this barbaric practice brought shame to Capitol Hill."

For the NGO and women's advocacy community, the implications of this defeat extend much further than just this bill. They also saw Republicans invoke the abortion issue when objecting to the International Violence Against Women Act and expect the new Congress to push for reinstatement of the "Mexico City Policy," which would prevent federal funding for any organizations that even discuss abortion.

"Any time a health bill that has to do with women and girls comes to the House floor, we're going to see a debate like the one we just saw," said one advocacy leader who supported the bill. "It's hard to imagine how any development bills are going to pass in this environment."

The protection of women and girls is a major focus of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who promised to elevate the issue Thursday when rolling out the State Department's Quadrennial Diplomacy and Development Review. She has said that forced child marriage is "a clear and unacceptable violation of human rights", and that "the Department of State categorically denounces all cases of child marriage as child abuse".

State's Ambassador at Large for Global Women's Issues Melanne Verveer has worked hard on the issue behind the scenes. But at the eleventh hour, when the going got tough, the bill's supporters said that the administration was nowhere to be found. In October, the White House decided to waive all penalties under the Child Soldiers Prevention Act, another Durbin led bill that the NGO community supports.

United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) estimates that 60 million girls in developing countries now between the ages of 20 and 24 were married before they reached 18. The Population Council, a group focused on reproductive and child health, estimates that the number will increase by 100 million over the next decade if current trends continue.
Anyone has any idea on why they lied to their own collegues to stop something like this?
I mean, I'm puzzled by this move. :? Makes no sense.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by dragon »

Besides the fact we are trillions of dollars in debt spending hundreds of millions of other problems that we have little control over is not such a wise move. There are plenty of needy children in this country without have to look abroad.


I don't mean to be hard but we need our own house in order before we try to fix the rest of the world.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by Darth Fanboy »

dragon wrote:Besides the fact we are trillions of dollars in debt spending hundreds of millions of other problems that we have little control over is not such a wise move. There are plenty of needy children in this country without have to look abroad.


I don't mean to be hard but we need our own house in order before we try to fix the rest of the world.
Bullshit you "don't mean to be hard", that is exactly what you mean when you take a position like that. Don't be gutless because you know you're taking a position that is going to open you up to criticism.

And I'll follow that up with...well some criticism really. Did you not get a heart or conscience for Christmas? I'm an American, I don't like how our spending is out of control, but i'm one of those people who believe that America needs to become a force for positive actions again and this is one of those things that could do that. Not only that but these kids need help, it's the right fucking thing to do.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by Jaevric »

We've pretty much demonstrated our national willingness to continue to spiral down into debt regardless -- witness the recent combination of spending increases and tax cuts. To be blunt, $108mil is pocket change at this point. Would I like to see a more sound fiscal policy? Absolutely. But I'd understand spending $108mil on something like this a hell of a lot more than I accept many of the other things we spend a lot more money on.

However, the question of why the Republican leadership would lie to the rank-and-file to get this bill stopped is an interesting one. Moustache-twirling evil is a possibility (certainty?) with our current political climate, but you'd think a bunch of politicians would get pretty pissed at being lied to by their own party leadership. Either the Republican leadership believes there is some benefit to blocking this bill that makes it worthwhile to risk damaging their standing with their own party, or the leadership is just that convinced that the Republicans will march in lockstep no matter what the leaders do that it's a non-issue -- but that goes back to the "moustache-twirling evil" theory.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

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Darth Fanboy wrote:
dragon wrote:Besides the fact we are trillions of dollars in debt spending hundreds of millions of other problems that we have little control over is not such a wise move. There are plenty of needy children in this country without have to look abroad.


I don't mean to be hard but we need our own house in order before we try to fix the rest of the world.
Bullshit you "don't mean to be hard", that is exactly what you mean when you take a position like that. Don't be gutless because you know you're taking a position that is going to open you up to criticism.

And I'll follow that up with...well some criticism really. Did you not get a heart or conscience for Christmas? I'm an American, I don't like how our spending is out of control, but i'm one of those people who believe that America needs to become a force for positive actions again and this is one of those things that could do that. Not only that but these kids need help, it's the right fucking thing to do.
It's not bull shit if I truely being hard I would have said alot harsher criticsim. I have no problems with spending money on needy children in other countries but if we don't take care of or own first what kind of example are we setting. So why don't you remove that corn cob you have stuck.

and while 108 million is pocket change, that same amount of money invested in our children would be a good start, after all children are the future.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

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^Please use proper spelling and grammar.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

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Thanas wrote:^Please use proper spelling and grammar.
I'll try to be better next time but then my grammer is horrendous. It's sad enligsh is my native language but my knowledge of grammer rules of german are better. Might be why I have mutiple people proof read my research papers.

Besides just ran that part you complained of through a grammer and spelling editor there was only a few spelling errors.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by Sarevok »

As much as I appreciate the US's goodwill 108 million USD spread across the world is too little for a issue as complex as child marriages. Child marriages can happen in places in middle east which are quite wealthy. So it is not just a problem you can throw money at to solve. On other 108 million USD is a lot of money and there are many pressing needs in US and worldwide where it can make a real difference. Even though I don't approve the tone of his post I have to agree with Dragon here.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

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dragon wrote:
Thanas wrote:^Please use proper spelling and grammar.
I'll try to be better next time but then my grammer is horrendous. It's sad enligsh is my native language but my knowledge of grammer rules of german are better. Might be why I have mutiple people proof read my research papers.

Besides just ran that part you complained of through a grammer and spelling editor there was only a few spelling errors.

A few? The first sentence is nearly unreadable. Thanks for trying, but please try to do better in the future.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

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dragon wrote:Besides the fact we are trillions of dollars in debt spending hundreds of millions of other problems that we have little control over is not such a wise move. There are plenty of needy children in this country without have to look abroad.
Would these be all the children forced into marriages at a young age? The girls with no access to education? The girls who can look forward to a life of not owning any property.

Your needy children aren't as needy.

I don't mean to be hard but we need our own house in order before we try to fix the rest of the world.
Comparatively speaking it IS in order.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

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To me, this bit suggests that the bill wouldn't have required any new spending. Just an adjustment of how its currently spent:
Rep. Stephen LaTourrette (R-OH) called out the Republican leadership for invoking the abortion issue to defeat the forced child marriage act in a floor speech Friday morning.

"Yesterday I was on the floor and I was a co-sponsor with [on] a piece of legislation with [Rep. Betty McCollum (D-MN)] that would have moved money, no new money, would have moved money so that societies that are coercing young girls into marriage... we could make sure that they stay in school so they're not forced into marriage at the age of 12 and 13," LaTourette said. "All of a sudden there was a fiscal argument. When that didn't work people had to add an abortion element to it. This is a partisan place. I'm a Republican. I'm glad we beat their butt in the election, but there comes a time when enough is enough."
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

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The Guid wrote:
dragon wrote:Besides the fact we are trillions of dollars in debt spending hundreds of millions of other problems that we have little control over is not such a wise move. There are plenty of needy children in this country without have to look abroad.
Would these be all the children forced into marriages at a young age? The girls with no access to education? The girls who can look forward to a life of not owning any property.

Your needy children aren't as needy.

I don't mean to be hard but we need our own house in order before we try to fix the rest of the world.
Comparatively speaking it IS in order.
maybe it is but still lots of room for improvement, from starvation and slavery.
-36.3 million people--including 13 million children--live in households that experience hunger or the risk of hunger. This represents more than one in ten 0households in the United States (11.2 percent). This is an increase of 1.4 million, from 34.9, million in 2002
And these are just a few of the problems, not counting education, health and more.

link
The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency estimates that 50,000 people are trafficked into or transited through the U.S.A. annually as sex slaves, domestics, garment, and agricultural slaves.

The United States is a destination country for thousands of men, women, and children trafficked largely from Mexico and East Asia, as well as countries in South Asia, Central America, Africa, and Europe, for the purposes of sexual and labor exploitation. Three-quarters of all foreign adult victims identified during the Fiscal Year (FY) 2008 were victims of trafficking for forced labor. Some trafficking victims, responding to fraudulent offers of employment in the United States, migrate willingly—legally and illegally—and are subsequently subjected to conditions of involuntary servitude or debt bondage at work sites or in commercial sex. An unknown number of American citizens and legal residents are trafficked within the country, primarily for sexual servitude.
link
800,000 children younger than 18 are missing each year, or an average of 2,000 children reported missing each day.
200,000 children were were abducted by family members.
58,000 children were abducted by nonfamily members, and
115 children were the victims of “stereotypical” kidnapping. These crimes involve someone the child does not know, or knows only slightly, who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.
link
Unfortunately, not all of America's poor have been so fortunate. According to figures released by the U.S. Census Bureau in September 1996, 13.8% of Americans live in poverty. Many more are on the borderline. Poverty affects all ages, but an astonishing 48% percent of its victims are children:

About 15 million children -- one out of every four -- live below the official poverty line.
Everyday 2,660 children are born into poverty; 27 die because of it.

Children and families are the fastest growing group in the homeless population, representing 40%.
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edit more
According to experts, an estimated 300,000 children in America are at risk of human traffickers.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by Darth Fanboy »

dragon wrote: It's not bull shit if I truely being hard I would have said alot harsher criticsim. [/quite]

Like what? You flat out said that you don't think America should spend money to improve the lives of children because said children don't live in America. How you phrase it doesn't change the fact that you would make no effort to help people that need it because they don't live in your country?
I have no problems with spending money on needy children in other countries but if we don't take care of or own first what kind of example are we setting. So why don't you remove that corn cob you have stuck.
We're setting the example that we care about others, and that we might actually be setting the example that we could help others in need even when we ourselves are having tough times. You'll notice i've also never said we should help other kids by taking away from what we do for American children.

And if I may suggest that was the single worst attempt at flaming in the history of this entire board.
and while 108 million is pocket change, that same amount of money invested in our children would be a good start, after all children are the future.
Only if they are American children I guess.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by dragon »

Darth Fanboy wrote:
dragon wrote: It's not bull shit if I truely being hard I would have said alot harsher criticsim. [/quite]

Like what? You flat out said that you don't think America should spend money to improve the lives of children because said children don't live in America. How you phrase it doesn't change the fact that you would make no effort to help people that need it because they don't live in your country?
I have no problems with spending money on needy children in other countries but if we don't take care of or own first what kind of example are we setting. So why don't you remove that corn cob you have stuck.
We're setting the example that we care about others, and that we might actually be setting the example that we could help others in need even when we ourselves are having tough times. You'll notice i've also never said we should help other kids by taking away from what we do for American children.

And if I may suggest that was the single worst attempt at flaming in the history of this entire board.
and while 108 million is pocket change, that same amount of money invested in our children would be a good start, after all children are the future.
Only if they are American children I guess.
nice try my family is German and they have no plans becoming Americans.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by RedImperator »

I love these "oh, that money could be better spent at home" arguments. The $108m figure--already a drop in the bucket when measured against US education and welfare spending--is actually spread over five years. Twenty million bucks a year wouldn't make a dent in littering in this country, let alone major social problems.

The only cost objection I can see is that that such a small amount of money wouldn't make a dent in child marriages abroad, either, but since I have 1) no idea how the money is supposed to be spent, and 2) no idea how one would go about fighting child marriage, I'm not qualified to criticize it on those grounds, and I'm going to take a wild guess and say most of the misers deficit hawks in this thread aren't either.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by Sarevok »

@Red

I dont know either. But as I pointed out child marriage is not one of those problems you can solve by spending more money to arrive at a solution faster. It is more of a complex social-cultural issue rather than merely financial insolvency in countries where it happens.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by Simon_Jester »

Even complex social-cultural issues, if you have taken it upon yourself to solve them, are going to take money to solve. You can't even sit down and draft a preliminary study for how to solve a problem if you're not willing to throw some money at the effort.

I don't know what the program planned to spend the 20m/year on, but there can be a huge difference between a program which receives minimal funding to tackle a large problem and a program which receives no funding.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by The Guid »

]
The Guid wrote:
dragon wrote:Besides the fact we are trillions of dollars in debt spending hundreds of millions of other problems that we have little control over is not such a wise move. There are plenty of needy children in this country without have to look abroad.
Would these be all the children forced into marriages at a young age? The girls with no access to education? The girls who can look forward to a life of not owning any property.

Your needy children aren't as needy.
I'd like the flag up that my questions above were completely ignored.

...maybe it is but still lots of room for improvement, from starvation and slavery.
The bit you quoted wrote:-36.3 million people--including 13 million children--live in households that experience hunger or the risk of hunger. This represents more than one in ten 0households in the United States (11.2 percent). This is an increase of 1.4 million, from 34.9, million in 2002
The very same page wrote:So three million children live in homes that experience hunger. Two further points are important:

--First, this is really "experience hunger at some time during the year." A majority of the people who were hungry at some time during the year were hungry in several different months, but only for a few times each month. So that daily statistics for hunger would be smaller.

--Secondly, the number of children that experience hunger would be smaller, as adults usually try to shield children from hunger. The first people to be hungry are usually adults.

To summarize, the good news is that 13 million children are not hungry each day, (which I think was the thrust of your question). The bad news is that 13 million children live in families that are threatened with hunger.

link

Maybe whilst you were on that site you might have seen this image:

Image

Study it, understand what it means, and then tell me the US has its own problems.
The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency estimates that 50,000 people are trafficked into or transited through the U.S.A. annually as sex slaves, domestics, garment, and agricultural slaves.

The United States is a destination country for thousands of men, women, and children trafficked largely from Mexico and East Asia, as well as countries in South Asia, Central America, Africa, and Europe, for the purposes of sexual and labor exploitation. Three-quarters of all foreign adult victims identified during the Fiscal Year (FY) 2008 were victims of trafficking for forced labor. Some trafficking victims, responding to fraudulent offers of employment in the United States, migrate willingly—legally and illegally—and are subsequently subjected to conditions of involuntary servitude or debt bondage at work sites or in commercial sex. An unknown number of American citizens and legal residents are trafficked within the country, primarily for sexual servitude.
link
The bit you quoted wrote: 800,000 children younger than 18 are missing each year, or an average of 2,000 children reported missing each day.
200,000 children were were abducted by family members.
58,000 children were abducted by nonfamily members, and
115 children were the victims of “stereotypical” kidnapping. These crimes involve someone the child does not know, or knows only slightly, who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.
The exact same page wrote:According to a 1997 study, Case Management for Missing Children Homicide Investigation, the murder of an abducted child is a rare event; an estimated 100 such incidents occur in the United States each year
link

A nation of over 300 million loses 100 to abduction and murder? Granted that is a tragedy but that is nothing compared to the 20,000 abducted from the Sudan, a nation of around 45,000,000

http://www.sudantribune.com/Time-may-be ... anda,11792

Here's the thing - I'm not saying America is perfect and that all the problems are solved. I'm just saying that to not give aid to areas of the world where things really are worse, is kinda of a dickish thing to do.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by someone_else »

I'm pretty sure I read around that congress had multiple times hundreds of dollars of "rounding errors" that had to be fixed, so the cost is kinda ludicrously low.

Also, I doubt most civilized countries have so huge problems with forced children marriage (since it tends to go against a bunch of different laws) to need specific action in their own land.

Again, I think the fact there are children out there that die of hunger or are in need for other reasons (like the forced marriage, in this case) is beyond any doubt.

That said, not being a US citizen my understanding of what is going on in the congress is limited, so I ask again:

Why the fuck repubblican leaders gave a so obviously idiotic orders to stop this bill, that has so little sense stopping?
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by Simon_Jester »

On the philosophical side of this (the Guid-dragon argument), there's a big mismatch, and I think it boils down to the question of jurisdiction.

If the US government is responsible for fighting evils in other nations, including remote ones, then spending the money becomes a necessity.

If the US government is responsible to the people who vote it into office, spending the money isn't a duty. It's very much a right thing to do, but it isn't something the US government is obliged to do in a time of limited resources.

The problem is that the strength of that latter argument depends on the idea that money not spent on helping people overseas will be spent solving America's problems at home. Given the behavior of the Congress that blocked that bill... I don't expect it to happen. They're not saying "we'll spend the money to improve things at home." They're saying "we'll spend the money to do things that will NOT improve things at home."
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by Darth Fanboy »

dragon wrote: nice try my family is German and they have no plans becoming Americans.

And how does that change any of my points you dipshit?
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by Darth Fanboy »

Sarevok wrote:@Red

I dont know either. But as I pointed out child marriage is not one of those problems you can solve by spending more money to arrive at a solution faster. It is more of a complex social-cultural issue rather than merely financial insolvency in countries where it happens.
I guess that means solving the problem won't cost anything then?
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by Lusankya »

Simon_Jester wrote:If the US government is responsible for fighting evils in other nations, including remote ones, then spending the money becomes a necessity.

If the US government is responsible to the people who vote it into office, spending the money isn't a duty. It's very much a right thing to do, but it isn't something the US government is obliged to do in a time of limited resources.
Even if the US is only responsible to the people who vote it into office, the cost is what? 0.0005% of the budget? I think it's highly likely that enough voters take the issue of child marriage seriously enough that in order to accurately represent the wishes of the voters, it is entirely right and proper for the US government to spend 0.0005% of its budget addressing the issue.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by Simon_Jester »

A fair point, Lusankya, and one that makes what I was talking about earlier moot, now that I think about it.
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Re: Killed the US bill to prevent forced child marriages abr

Post by Sriad »

Instead of asking "but seriously, what could $20 million a year do to fight child marriage" I ask "what can 150 highly educated people with a decent budget do for five years to influence world opinion on child marriage?" It feels a great deal more optimistic.

But before I feel to good I should ask instead "what WOULD those people have been able to do if Ileana Ros-Lehtinen hadn't taken a heroic stand against this controversial bill that passed the Senate unanimously?"
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