Frat boy Navy captain gets relieved

[Mr. Coffee]

Boohoo, people in the official employ of the government have to abide by stricter standards of decency than comedians! Cry me the fucking Wolga River.

In that case go ahead and cite the articles of the UCMJ he violated. Either way, your "it's based on your profession" metric is still fucking retarded.

It's not OK, but Comedians are not paid and provided for by the government! Yes, keep ignoring that rather big difference.

Explain USO comedy shows then. And I'm not ignoring the difference, I think the difference, at least as far as your reasoning is concerned, is so fucking retarded someone needs to start a telethon to cure it.

Did I ever call this guy a homophobe? I don't know if he is or isn't, all I know is that he used homophobic slurs.

You're using the same "unless your a comedian" logic Metahive is using, flagg. Ya might as well go whole hog and come out and say it. He used homophobic slurs as part of a joke without any clear intent to offend people. But since he's (now) a carrier captain it's not ok, but if he was a professional comedian it is? How the fuck does that work?

I've made homophobic jokes, racist jokes, and all other manner of offensive as shit jokes over the years. The difference? I'm just some douchebag on the internet, he's the commander of a nuclear aircraft carrier with thousands of crewman serving under him.

So again we're back to "oh, it's ok, because I'm not in command of an aircraft carrier". Look, it's either ok in certain contexts and situations or it's not ok at all. Which is it?

[Soontir C'boath]

I'm intrigued. I'd like to live in Coffee's world and see what comedic sketches the President of the United States can dole out.

[Metahive]

In that case go ahead and cite the articles of the UCMJ he violated. Either way, your "it's based on your profession" metric is still fucking retarded.

As Flagg already noted, he's relieved of command, he's not charged with anything, so that's a fucking Red Herring.

Tell you what, as soon as Dane Cook or Sarah Silverman are charged with commanding an aircraft carrier I will come back to your "CO of a CV = CO-median" argument. Until then I guess you have to live with the fact that comedians do not provide the standard that high-ranking government officials should live up to. The Field Marshal doesn't get the fool's license of the Court Jester because the Field Marshal's responsibility extends far beyond entertaining people!

[Flagg]

In that case go ahead and cite the articles of the UCMJ he violated. Either way, your "it's based on your profession" metric is still fucking retarded.

As Flagg already noted, he's relieved of command, he's not charged with anything, so that's a fucking Red Herring.

Tell you what, as soon as Dane Cook or Sarah Silverman are charged with commanding an aircraft carrier I will come back to your "CO of a CV = CO-median" argument. Until then I guess you have to live with the fact that comedians do not provide the standard that high-ranking government officials should live up to. The Field Marshal doesn't get the fool's license of the Court Jester because the Field Marshal's responsibility extends far beyond entertaining people!

Spot on.

[Mr. Coffee]

I'm intrigued. I'd like to live in Coffee's world and see what comedic sketches the President of the United States can dole out.

Dude, we just had eight years of that with Bush. *rimshot* But yeah, go look up "White House Press Corps Dinner" on youtube and you'll see various Presidents telling jokes on the Gubbermint's dime.

As Flagg already noted, he's relieved of command, he's not charged with anything, so that's a fucking Red Herring.

Hey, you said he's held to a higher standard. The UCMJ would be that standard. So he's relieved of command, but he's not being charged with anything, i.e. they can't actually find anything he did that was in violation of regulations. So stick that red herring shit up your uptight ass, swirl it a few time for fun, and let it stew for a few hours.

Tell you what, as soon as Dane Cook or Sarah Silverman are charged with commanding an aircraft carrier I will come back to your "CO of a CV = CO-median" argument. Until then I guess you have to live with the fact that comedians do not provide the standard that high-ranking government officials should live up to. The Field Marshal doesn't get the fool's license of the Court Jester because the Field Marshal's responsibility extends far beyond entertaining people!

Oh bullshit. So now you're saying that due to their professional capacity that commanding officers are no longer allowed to joke? Seriously, would it kill you to admit that your "it's ok as long as you're a comedian" reasoning is dumb so we can all move on already?

[Metahive]

Oh bullshit. So now you're saying that due to their professional capacity that commanding officers are no longer allowed to joke? Seriously, would it kill you to admit that your "it's ok as long as you're a comedian" reasoning is dumb so we can all move on already?

"Gentlemen, we need a new commander for the USS Killfuckaton, I await your proposals"
"How about Captain Gaybash?"
"What are his qualifications?"
"His sthick is just as offensive as Carlos Mencia's"
"Splendid!"

That's Coffeeworld for you. I for one welcome our new politically incorrect overlords. Wakka wakka wakka.

O yeah, and you will also now go back and quote me where I say that COs can't make jokes at all.

[Soontir C'boath]

I'm intrigued. I'd like to live in Coffee's world and see what comedic sketches the President of the United States can dole out.

Dude, we just had eight years of that with Bush. *rimshot* But yeah, go look up "White House Press Corps Dinner" on youtube and you'll see various Presidents telling jokes on the Gubbermint's dime.

Give a quote where a POTUS dropped a prejudicial slur as a punchline and I'll get back to you.

[Spoonist]

Have not seen the vid but the ability to get away with incensitive jokes are proportional to your power over people. This because such jokes can and will be misconstrued by others as a carte blanche for further actions. So while a female coworker might be OK with a feminist joke, that same joke from the boss might not be OK because it creates a hostile environment where assholes might go further than the joke.

In the military such things can and will undermine moral.

[Mr. Coffee]

O yeah, and you will also now go back and quote me where I say that COs can't make jokes at all.

The Field Marshal doesn't get the fool's license of the Court Jester because the Field Marshal's responsibility extends far beyond entertaining people!

And considering your arguments thus far can be summed as "it's ok if you're a comedian" and "but he's the commander of an aircraft carrier", yeah, you've pretty much said exactly that. But hey, nice to see that instead of actually making arguments you're down to making attempts at comedy yourself (I actually laughed at that USS Killfuckton thing). Now I'm imagining "Coffee's World" in my head and it's a magical place where people don't get bent out of shape and offended over the slightest fucking excuse.

In the military such things can and will undermine moral.

Which is odd since the overwhelming majority of people that actually served under Cpatian Honor when he made these videos says it actually had a positive effect on their morale. Fuck, go look at the USS Enterprise's facebook page. Most people are supporting the man and the people that don't all seem to have the same argument of "but he's an officer! Officers shouldn't do that".

[Metahive]

And considering your arguments thus far can be summed as "it's ok if you're a comedian" and "but he's the commander of an aircraft carrier", yeah, you've pretty much said exactly that. But hey, nice to see that instead of actually making arguments you're down to making attempts at comedy yourself (I actually laughed at that USS Killfuckton thing). Now I'm imagining "Coffee's World" in my head and it's a magical place where people don't get bent out of shape and offended over the slightest fucking excuse.

My argument has consistently been that COs ought to be held to stricter standards of decency than CO-medians. That you somehow interprete that as some sort of anti-humor crusade on my part is not my responsibility.

O yeah, and "Fool's License" does not refer to the ability to make jokes itself. It specifically refers to being offensive as that had been the Court Jester's privilege in ye olden days. The more you know.

[Bluewolf]

The delay of this is what really gets me. This was left lying for years and the Navy and many onboard knew about it but only NOW was it brought up. Hmmn how convenient. It's funny how no one complained in the meantime and then when he is a Captain, it is suddenly horrifying and the Navy act. Something is quite fishy here. Also I am with Whaler. Punishment does not even fit the crime.

[General Zod]

Hey, you said he's held to a higher standard. The UCMJ would be that standard. So he's relieved of command, but he's not being charged with anything, i.e. they can't actually find anything he did that was in violation of regulations. So stick that red herring shit up your uptight ass, swirl it a few time for fun, and let it stew for a few hours.

Or they decided to simply not pursue charges. Or they struck a plea bargain. Or there was a statute of limitations. Or any number of things. Unless you've seen the videos in question, and I'm guessing most people in this thread haven't, it's a bit presumptuous to say that he's definitely innocent or guilty of serious violations one way or the other.

[Aaron]

The delay of this is what really gets me. This was left lying for years and the Navy and many onboard knew about it but only NOW was it brought up. Hmmn how convenient. It's funny how no one complained in the meantime and then when he is a Captain, it is suddenly horrifying and the Navy act. Something is quite fishy here. Also I am with Whaler. Punishment does not even fit the crime.

Actually the article says that people objected to it when it was shown, but they were ignored. It seems action was only taken when someone made a formal complaint.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I think bigots should be fired. However, I don't think people should be fired when they have moments of questionable judgement over a word.

I'd like to hear why ending the career of an otherwise promising Captain, or any other professional, is justified for the use of a word in a non serious setting without supporting evidence that said person is actually a bigot.

I'd like those supporting this action to demonstrate how the amount of harm done by the Captain justifies the harm done to the Captain.

[Flagg]

It's my understanding that the videos only recently became public and that's what has brought on his being relieved of command at this point. I don't know what other punishment they could have given him seeing as how this doesn't appear to be a court marshal type of offense, though I could be wrong on that as well.

[Mr. Coffee]

My argument has consistently been that COs ought to be held to stricter standards of decency than CO-medians. That you somehow interprete that as some sort of anti-humor crusade on my part is not my responsibility.

And they are held to a hgiher standard, yet no one can actually show what standard he violated. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for you (and Flagg) to explain me exactly what this guy did that warrants ending his career and labeling him as a bigot.

[General Zod]

I think bigots should be fired. However, I don't think people should be fired when they have moments of questionable judgement over a word.

I'd like to hear why ending the career of an otherwise promising Captain, or any other professional, is justified for the use of a word in a non serious setting without supporting evidence that said person is actually a bigot.

I'd like those supporting this action to demonstrate how the amount of harm done by the Captain justifies the harm done to the Captain.

He wasn't "fired" per se. He was reassigned to a desk job.

[Aaron]

It's my understanding that the videos only recently became public and that's what has brought on his being relieved of command at this point. I don't know what other punishment they could have given him seeing as how this doesn't appear to be a court marshal type of offense, though I could be wrong on that as well.

"Sodomy" perhaps. Most armed forces have a "gotcha" charge though, something like "conduct unbecoming a service member" or some such. Honestly, I don't think this is should be a career ending offence. Reduction in rank, mandatory ethics training, sure but the Navy has a substantial amount of time, money and most importantly, training invested in this man. One shouldn't toss experienced officers lightly.

That said, with DADT soon to be gone and homosexuals soon to serve openly, it would be a good idea to demonstrate that the military takes things like this seriously. After all the CO isn't responsible for the morale of most the crew, he's responsible for all of them.

[Mr. Coffee]

He wasn't "fired" per se. He was reassigned to a desk job.

Best part of that article...

"While Capt. Honors' performance as commanding officer of USS Enterprise has been without incident, his profound lack of good judgment and professionalism while previously serving as executive officer on Enterprise calls into question his character and completely undermines his credibility to continue to serve effectively in command," Harvey said in a statement read to reporters in Norfolk on Tuesday afternoon.

So the man's actions while XO call into question his credibility as CO... So why the hell did you dipshits promote him to being the CO?

[Metahive]

And they are held to a hgiher standard, yet no one can actually show what standard he violated. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for you (and Flagg) to explain me exactly what this guy did that warrants ending his career and labeling him as a bigot.

The standard that turns you into a pencil pusher when violated. Shock Horror. It's like they scheduled the guy to be shot at dawn and deported his family to Siberia according to some people here. It has also already explained why casually throwing around slurs is both bigoted and a bad idea for a team leader. I'm not responsible for your goldfish memory.

[Mr. Coffee]

The standard that turns you into a pencil pusher when violated. Shock Horror.

You mean the same standard that got him promoted from XO making comedy shows to CO of the same boat?

It's like they scheduled the guy to be shot at dawn and deported his family to Siberia according to some people here.

They've effectively ended his career and any hope he has of future command or promote, which for a field-grade officer is pretty much the same thing.

It has also already explained why casually throwing around slurs is both bigoted and a bad idea for a team leader. I'm not responsible for your goldfish memory.

Yet the majority of his sailors say he was a good officer and that his shenanigans had a net positive effect on morale. Even better, the Navy actually saw fit to give him a bigger team to lead.

[Flagg]

He wasn't "fired" per se. He was reassigned to a desk job.

Best part of that article...

"While Capt. Honors' performance as commanding officer of USS Enterprise has been without incident, his profound lack of good judgment and professionalism while previously serving as executive officer on Enterprise calls into question his character and completely undermines his credibility to continue to serve effectively in command," Harvey said in a statement read to reporters in Norfolk on Tuesday afternoon.

So the man's actions while XO call into question his credibility as CO... So why the hell did you dipshits promote him to being the CO?

Because they made a mistake. Now they are rectifying that mistake.

[Mr. Coffee]

Because someone got butthurt. Now they are covering their asses.

Fixed to reflect reality.

[Flagg]

Because someone got butthurt. Now they are covering their asses.

Fixed to reflect reality.

And? So they are covering their asses, how does that change the metrics of the situation?

[Soontir C'boath]

Because someone got butthurt. Now they are covering their asses.

Fixed to reflect reality.

And? So they are covering their asses, how does that change the metrics of the situation?

I think it should bear mentioning again that the complaints were allegedly ignored at the time. So whoever promoted him may not even have known about this.

Navy officials had no explanation for why the videos shown on the ship’s closed-circuit television surfaced publicly after several years, or why no officers on the Enterprise apparently raised questions about them when they were made and shown. The Virginian-Pilot said one crew member mailed a complaint about the videos to the Navy inspector general last week, and quoted other crew members who said they were ignored when they objected to the videos at the time they were shown.