Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

[General Mung Beans]

If he's a libertarian of any sort why would he like Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto of all books?

Also a lot of the people who's saying "This guy's a far right wing lunatic influenced by Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin" suspected similar things during the Times Square Bombing.

[weemadando]

And as I said before, even if it is just a "lone wolf", the fact that the tea bagger scum are busy whitewashing their websites, social networks and generally sanitising themselves of any reference to such actions shows that they clearly worried that they are at least somewhat culpable for this guy's crime.

... Or that some of their material, such as the Palin "Target" broadsheet with all the seats she wanted to retake marked with crosshairs, might be taken wildly out of context by folks such as some of the posters in this thread who seem ready to leap on anything which vilifies the right wing regardless of any actual facts on the matter.

We have no idea what this guy's motivations were; only that what little evidence is visible right now certainly doesn't point to a "right wing" nutjob. Or is the Communist Manifesto a popular book in Tea Party circles?

-edited for punctuation-

The fact is that they still were worried enough that they had to scrub and sanitise their own histories after the crime was committed. And lets face it, leaping to conclusions initially isn't that hard to do. Person shoots someone in the head who's murder has been explicitly requested by the tea party bigwigs. The facts are now in and the initial conclusions are wrong. Good thing we have legal systems and shit that can sort out the facts and acquit or sentence accordingly, not just call for the summary execution of those who oppose us.

But them sweeping their past statements under the rug clearly shows that they felt guilty, or at least concerned about this. And to use a classic right wing truism - if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about.

I'm sorry if a little schadenfreude offends your sensibilities.

[bobalot]

Link to a twitter for someone who went to school with the nut.

Short version: Left wing liberal who met Giffords once and didn't like her. Pothead, loner, etc.

"left wing liberal"? Really? you base this on a twitter feed from someone who had not seen him since several years? Yeah, I don't believe that.

Especially as his favorite books are the usual mix of right-wing + lolbertarian nonsense.

Standard Republitard defense ---> Blame liberals using feint evidence while ignoring most of the evidence (at this stage) which states otherwise.

[Soontir C'boath]

Whoops. As I was.

She tried to scrub it today, she didn't post it today,

Yea, I checked on it after I posted my comment about it. It would be pretty damn nuts if it was made today.

[MKSheppard]

Some more stuff on the shooter and a photo of the fucker:

Link

The man linked to the shooting today of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and others is 22-year-old Jared Lee Loughner, the Associated Press reported.

Police have surrounded a house at 7700 N. Soledad Ave., which is the address listed by a man with the same name on a variety of online accounts and in the volunteer registry for the 2010 Tucson Festival of Books. The home is near West Magee Road and North Thornydale Road on the northwest side, about five miles from the shooting scene.

A former classmate of Loughner at Pima Community College said he was “obviously very disturbed.”

“He disrupted class frequently with nonsensical outbursts,” said Lynda Sorenson, who took a math class with Loughner last summer at Pima Community College’s Northwest campus.

Sorenson doesn’t recall if he ever made any threats or uttered political statements but he was very disruptive, she said. He was asked to leave the pre-algebra class several times and eventually was barred from class, said Sorenson, a Tucson resident.

MySpace, YouTube and Facebook accounts maintained by Loughner suggest he has spent most of his life on the northwest side: His profile says he attended Thornydale Elementary, Tortolita Middle School, Mountain View High School and Pima Community College.

The online accounts also contain bizarre discussions of a new currency and literacy, as well as threatening and despairing messages.

“WOW! I’m glad i didn’t kill myself. I’ll see you on National T.v.! This is foreshadow .... why doesn’t anyone talk to me?..” he posted on MySpace Dec. 14.

On Dec. 13, he wrote: “I don’t feel good: I’m ready to kill a police officer! I can say it.”

In a posting on YouTube, Loughner wrote repeatedly about a new currency.

“I’m thinking of creating a new currency,” he wrote. “Therefore, I’m thinking of a design for my new coins size, shape, color, material, and image to start a new money system.”

He also wrote repeatedly about literacy. In a written message on YouTube, Loughner said: “The majority of people, who reside in District-8 are illiterate — hilarious. I don’t control your English grammar structure, but you control your English grammar structure.”

In a message posted on his MySpace account, titled “Goodbye friends,” Loughner said: “Dear friends...please don’t be mad at me. The literacy rate is below 5%. I haven’t talked to one person who is literate.” It was unclear when it was posted.

In a MySpace profile, Loughner said “My favorite interest was reading, and I studied grammar. Conscience dreams were a great study in college.”

He lists among his favorite books “Mein Kampf” and “The Communist Manifesto”. But he also includes a broad variety of other titles, including: “Animal Farm,” “Brave New World,” “To Kill a Mockingbird,” and “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”.

In another YouTube message, Loughner said: “I know who’s listening: Government Officials, and the People. Nearly all the people, who don’t know this accurate information of a new currency, aren’t aware of mind control and brainwash methods. If I have my civil rights, then this message wouldn’t have happen.”

“In conclusion, my ambition - is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming! Thank you!”

In a youtube.com video dated Dec. 15, entitled “Introduction: Jared Loughner” the accused gunman describes himself as a U.S. military recruit who had applied to join the Army. The Army, however, said it rejected Lougher as a recruit in 2008.

Loughner’s youtube video makes a rambling mention of “MEPS in Phoenix” a reference to the Military Entrance Processing Station in the state capital that all Arizona recruits from every branch of service pass through before leaving for basic training.

“Every United States military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix is receiving one mini bible before the tests,” it said. “Jared Loughner is a United States military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix. Therefore, Jared Loughner is receiving one mini bible before the tests.

“I didn’t write a belief on my Army application and the recruiter wrote on the application: None.”

First Sgt. Brian Homme, who oversees Army recruiting in Tucson, said Loughner applied to enlist in December 2008 and was sent to Phoenix to take a test and physical. But “he was found to be unqualified so he never joined the Army,” Homme said.

He declined to say why Loughner was rejected, citing confidentiality laws.

Jared Loughner has had at least two minor run-ins with police, according to on-line court records.

In October 2007, Loughner was cited by the Pima County Sheriff's Department for possession of drug paraphernalia, a charge that was dismissed in November 2007 when he completed a diversion program.

One year later, in October 2008, Loughner was charged with a "local charge" in Marana Municipal Court, that charge was also dismissed following the completion of a diversion program in March 2009.

Court records indicate the Marana case file is due to be purged in December 2013. It's unclear what the exact charge was.

Grant Wiens, 22, attended Mountain View High School with Loughner, although they were not in the same grade.

Wiens also took a class at Pima Community College with Loughner, where they occasionally talked, he said.

“He was a guy in high school who definitely had his opinions on stuff and didn’t seem to care what people thought of him,” Wiens said. “He did his own thing.”

Ryan Miller, 19, was a sophomore at Mountain View when Loughner was a senior.

He said Loughner was seemed like a normal kid.

“I was in shock,” he said, describing his reaction to the shooting. “I didn’t know what possessed someone our age to do something like this.”

[Thirdfain]

And lets face it, leaping to conclusions initially isn't that hard to do. Person shoots someone in the head who's murder has been explicitly requested by the tea party bigwigs. The facts are now in and the initial conclusions are wrong.

I'm sorry, but a little hyperbole about "reloading" and using target symbols to point out districts you want to win in an election isn't the same as explicitly requesting a murder. OF course, maybe I'm missing some bit of evidence; where are these tea-party bigwigs calling for the execution of Blue Dog democrats, or Giffords in particular?

But them sweeping their past statements under the rug clearly shows that they felt guilty, or at least concerned about this. And to use a classic right wing truism - if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about.

Already we've seen at least two pieces of media taken wildly out of context in this thread. What is so damning about clearing out any other propaganda or hyperbole which could be similarly taken out of context?

I'm sorry if a little schadenfreude offends your sensibilities.

It's the knee-jerk attitude with complete disregard for little things like "evidence" and "facts" which offends my sensibilities. I'm not disregarding the chance this guy could turn out to be some kind of Beck-Bot, but so far all the (minimal) evidence is quite contrary to that assumption.

[Simon_Jester]

I think it's a bit early to assume this was the work of a rightwing nutbar. I mean it could just as easily have been a random nut who went to the first big crowd they saw. We should know more as the investigation starts.

Still, it's pretty damning that this is the first assumption we make.

When someone is assassinated in a mass shooting at a prominent political event, the people who have specifically said things that would be easily interpreted as "I wish these people were dead" really are your #1 logical suspects.

They may not be directly responsible, but it's certainly a reasonable inference to make that people's words may have influence on the minds of disturbed members of their audience.

So I don't think it's unreasonable for people to start out expecting ties to the far right, even if subsequent evidence contradicts that (which it seems to be doing in this case, so far).

[Flagg]

I think it's a bit early to assume this was the work of a rightwing nutbar. I mean it could just as easily have been a random nut who went to the first big crowd they saw. We should know more as the investigation starts.

Still, it's pretty damning that this is the first assumption we make.

When someone is assassinated in a mass shooting at a prominent political event, the people who have specifically said things that would be easily interpreted as "I wish these people were dead" really are your #1 logical suspects.

They may not be directly responsible, but it's certainly a reasonable inference to make that people's words may have influence on the minds of disturbed members of their audience.

So I don't think it's unreasonable for people to start out expecting ties to the far right, even if subsequent evidence contradicts that (which it seems to be doing in this case, so far).

Yeah, which is why I said it's pretty damning that they were the first people we assumed were behind it.

[Lord of the Abyss]

I'm sorry, but a little hyperbole about "reloading" and using target symbols to point out districts you want to win in an election isn't the same as explicitly requesting a murder. OF course, maybe I'm missing some bit of evidence; where are these tea-party bigwigs calling for the execution of Blue Dog democrats, or Giffords in particular?

There was her Tea Party campaign opponent having people shoot up a photo of Giffords with an M-16. And the Tea Party people have made a point of showing up to protest people openly wearing guns; how isn't that a threat?

[Gil Hamilton]

... Or that some of their material, such as the Palin "Target" broadsheet with all the seats she wanted to retake marked with crosshairs, might be taken wildly out of context by folks such as some of the posters in this thread who seem ready to leap on anything which vilifies the right wing regardless of any actual facts on the matter.

We have no idea what this guy's motivations were; only that what little evidence is visible right now certainly doesn't point to a "right wing" nutjob. Or is the Communist Manifesto a popular book in Tea Party circles?

But is that not the same thing as whitewashing?

The funny thing abot schizos is that many of them RAPIDLY change viewpoints on everything, including their own politics. No one knows what this guy saying to the police yet about his motivation, I'm not even sure that the YouTube video channel people are posting belongs to the shooter (remember, someone started a fake Facebook page for him the MOMENT his name came out). Assuming it is and he's legitimately insane, then he could say anything about his motivation and I think that's why many folks are scrubbing their pages. If he came off his meds as a extreme right winger this week, the Tea Party people who've been using all the Second Amendment Solutions rhetoric and have very openly been using gun terminology/symbology are going to want to cover their ass, particularly if the Tucson police turn out his computer and find his recent browser history is full of their websites.

But who knows? We don't actually know anything yet, which is why those site are covering their asses now, just on the chance that it turns out their rhetoric was the crazy dog whistle that set this guy off.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

According to the latest live press conference by the local sheriff's department, the count is nineteen people wounded with six fatalities. Law enforcement also does not believe that Loughner acted alone . . . he seems to have had another man who was with him/accompanied him to the event.

[FSTargetDrone]

According to the latest live press conference by the local sheriff's department, the count is nineteen people wounded with six fatalities. Law enforcement also does not believe that Loughner acted alone . . . he seems to have had another man who was with him/accompanied him to the event.

Did you catch what he (the sheriff) said about how Arizona has become a center of "intolerance and bigotry"? I just missed that part.

Edit: Ah, he said how Arizona has become a "Mecca of prejudice and bigotry" (or "bigotry and prejudice").

[Qwerty 42]

Well, the idea of an accomplice is interesting. It makes me wonder if he was also unstable, or if the shooter was manipulated.

Has there been any other word about the Representative's condition.

[Broomstick]

She's out of surgery, she was able to respond to verbal commands (which implies she has some cognitive function and her hearing), but is still in critical condition.

Based on my limited understanding of such things, she'll probably be kept rather heavily sedated for several weeks to allow her brain to heal as much as possible, then likely go through rehab. Assuming she avoids infection or other complication she should, at this point, recover physically. However, I doubt anyone at this point can really know long term mental effects. We'll just have to wait and see.

[FSTargetDrone]

I may have missed someone posting relevant details, but earlier, one of the reports said she had been shot through "the temple" and that the round had exited her skull. Later, I heard that she was shot "in the face." So, I wonder if the shot went in through the temple and out the front of her skull?

Whatever the case, it must be a fearsome wound. It will be a long time before she is back to work, as Broomstick suggests, assuming she ever returns.

Possibly the guy's youtube channel:

Amazingly, this page is still up! Usually with incidents like this, known website are pulled down fairly quickly, especially from social networking sites.

[Chaotic Neutral]

I may have missed someone posting relevant details, but earlier, one of the reports said she had been shot through "the temple" and that the round had exited her skull. Later, I heard that she was shot "in the face." So, I wonder if the shot went in through the temple and out the front of her skull?

Or the news just counts the temple as part of your face because they are lazy...

[erik_t]

Own thoughts:

I cannot fathom a mechanism whereby Palinesque/Beckist freakouts incited the loon to be <i>less</i> inclined to wander towards a political rally and fucking shoot a sitting congressman in the head.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Well, the idea of an accomplice is interesting. It makes me wonder if he was also unstable, or if the shooter was manipulated.

Has there been any other word about the Representative's condition.

What Broomstick said. To expand on it; at the medical center's latest conference, doctors are "cautiously optimistic" that she will survive. The doctors state that she may need further surgery, and they're monitoring her closely. This is a backing-off of the optimism showed at the afternoon's press conference. This is normal for these types of injuries . . . as I said this afternoon, I won't feel optimistic about Giffords' chances until she's managed to survive the first day or two after her surgery. They're very carefully not saying anything about the extent of the recovery she might expect, if she survives.

The Washington Post is also reporting that Loughner purchased the weapon used in the assassination attempt on 30 November, from a national sporting-goods chain store. Combine that with the language used in his 15 December Youtube video would suggest that he was planning to do something, and this meet-and-greet just presented the first opportunity. Also, this evening, a "suspicious package" was found at Congresswoman Giffords' office. They're not saying whether they think there is any relationship to the assassination attempt.

[Flagg]

It's also possible the bullet went around her skull under the skin and didn't enter her skull. That would be a 1 in a million but it happens.

[Pelranius]

According to the latest live press conference by the local sheriff's department, the count is nineteen people wounded with six fatalities. Law enforcement also does not believe that Loughner acted alone . . . he seems to have had another man who was with him/accompanied him to the event.

Oh fuck, I just hope the accomplice, if he/she exists, doesn't have a firearm too, or explosives.

[JME2]

According to the latest live press conference by the local sheriff's department, the count is nineteen people wounded with six fatalities. Law enforcement also does not believe that Loughner acted alone . . . he seems to have had another man who was with him/accompanied him to the event.

Oh fuck, I just hope the accomplice, if he/she exists, doesn't have a firearm too, or explosives.

Likewise.

[Ariphaos]

Link to a twitter for someone who went to school with the nut.

Short version: Left wing liberal who met Giffords once and didn't like her. Pothead, loner, etc.

Did you even watch the videos that you yourself linked to?

Raving lunatic demanding everyone create a new currency backed by silver and gold. Incapable of rational thought and belonged in a mental asylum.

[SirNitram]

Well, the idea of an accomplice is interesting. It makes me wonder if he was also unstable, or if the shooter was manipulated.

Has there been any other word about the Representative's condition.

What Broomstick said. To expand on it; at the medical center's latest conference, doctors are "cautiously optimistic" that she will survive. The doctors state that she may need further surgery, and they're monitoring her closely. This is a backing-off of the optimism showed at the afternoon's press conference. This is normal for these types of injuries . . . as I said this afternoon, I won't feel optimistic about Giffords' chances until she's managed to survive the first day or two after her surgery. They're very carefully not saying anything about the extent of the recovery she might expect, if she survives.

The Washington Post is also reporting that Loughner purchased the weapon used in the assassination attempt on 30 November, from a national sporting-goods chain store. Combine that with the language used in his 15 December Youtube video would suggest that he was planning to do something, and this meet-and-greet just presented the first opportunity. Also, this evening, a "suspicious package" was found at Congresswoman Giffords' office. They're not saying whether they think there is any relationship to the assassination attempt.

The package sounds like it's more likely part of this Link to WaPo, packages igniting at government offices

As for the question of blaming the right wing, and not knowing the idealogy, it's something I took into account. An unstable individual flooded with people saying some 'they' is gonna get them? They'll snap faster. The political discourse in the country is full of rhetoric that, like it or not, is violent. Eliminationist, even.

[Themightytom]

Link to a twitter for someone who went to school with the nut.

Short version: Left wing liberal who met Giffords once and didn't like her. Pothead, loner, etc.

Did you even watch the videos that you yourself linked to?

Raving lunatic demanding everyone create a new currency backed by silver and gold. Incapable of rational thought and belonged in a mental asylum.

I was thinking that the emphasis on currency was evocative of the recent discussion among right wingers regarding the federal reserve, and the frequent accusation that we are printing money. An unbalanced individual could ahve taken this several steps beyond conventional thought and frankly.. assumed everyone knew what he was talking about. i have a fellow at the shelter right now who is attempting to move to Alaska because he believes palin's leadership will get that region through an inevitable financial meltdown and a shift in the Earth's orbit which will indicate God's displeasure at the "policies of Ceasar"

by the way its an awesome thought that this guy I am talking about can easily buy a firearm in this state with no mention of his mental health on his background check.

[bobalot]

Giffords, 40, was among lawmakers who reported 42 threats or acts or vandalism in the first three months of 2010, a big increase over the previous year, law enforcement officers said. Nearly all the threats dealt with the massive health care bill that Giffords and other Democrats enacted over fierce Republican opposition.

Evidence Right-Wing nutjob violence was on the rise in this representative's area even before the shooting. It's hardly surprising that they were the first suspects. I wonder how much the teabagger's and Palin's rhetoric contributed to the prior vandalism and threats. Not that Republitards or Teabaggers gave a shit back then. It's hilarious that they are quickly covering their tracks now.