Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Tsyroc
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13748
Joined: 2002-07-29 08:35am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Tsyroc »

Aaron wrote:I wonder how many people actually knew about these services. I assume they would have signs and shite up at the school but...
I didn't know and I work in a hospital that has a separate mental health wing as well as a section of the ER for patients with mental health issues.

I'm guessing that probably only the people who work directly in those areas of the hospital might know that. I also attended Pima Community College and there were no signs like you are suggesting but I only attended classes on two of the several campuses and that was 1987-88 and 1994-96 so there could have been changes. I don't see that being something that the school would post but you never know.
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
User avatar
Tsyroc
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13748
Joined: 2002-07-29 08:35am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Tsyroc »

NDR-113 wrote:I was impressed that a woman, Patricia Maisch, grabbed at the gunman's magazine as he attempted to reload. Although the people who wrestled him to the ground were men, it goes to show you that physical strength is not the only measure of heroism.
Initially I was more impressed that she was 61 years old but then I thought about it. My mom is 60, 61 isn't as old as you get accustomed to thinking it is when you are a kid.

Anyway, Patricia Maisch deserves to be recognized for quick thinking and doing what she could to stop further bloodshed.
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28846
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Broomstick »

open_sketchbook wrote:Actually, if you'll forgive my Canadian ignorance for a second, have their ever been any high-profile assassinations of Republican political figures? (I mean, other than Lincon) All the instances that come to my mind seem to be democrats.
Successful US political assassinations of presidents:

Abraham Lincoln, 1865 - republican
James A. Garfield, 1881 - republican
William McKinley, 1901 - republican
John F. Kennedy, 1963 - democrat

So, 75% of successful presidential assassinations in the US have killed republicans, not democrats.

The first president assasination attempt was in 1835, directed at Andrew Jackson, a "democratic-republican" (the predecessor party to modern democrats, but quite different on some key points. As a trivia note, those opposed to Jackson referred to him as "jackass", and in defiance he adopted the jackass as a symbol. And that's why the democrats are still represented by a donkey to this day).

In 1912 someone shot Theodore Roosevelt, who was running under his Progressive Party or "Bull Moose" party (he had been a republican before that). He insisted on finishing his speech before going to have the bullet removed from his body. Tough guy.

There were unsuccessful attempts on Franklin Roosevelt (D, 1933), Harry Truman (D, 1950), John F. Kennedy (D 1960, this refers to an attempt before his actual killing), Richard Nixon (R 1974), two against Gerald Ford (R, Sept 5, 1975; Sept 22, 1975), Ronald Reagan (R 1981), George H.W. Bush (R 1993), three against Bill Clinton (D, Sept 1994, Oct 1994, 2006), at least one and possibly as many as four against George W. Bush (R, definitely 2005, possibles being in Feb 2001, Sept 2001, and 2008). The secret service claims Barack Obama has received more death threats than any other US President on record. So it seems that the republicans get threatened with assassination pretty often, too, even if the democrats have a slight edge there.

In addition, there have been accusations that both the presidents Zachary Taylor and Warren G. Harding were killed by poison, but never substantiated.

Thomas Marshall (D), a US Vice President during Woodrow Wilson's term, was targeted in 1916,

Alexander Hamilton, a prominent US political figure in the early US, was killed in a duel with Aaron Burr in 1804. Well, mortally wounded - he died the next day.

Martin Luther King, Jr and Malcolm X weren't elected official, but they certainly were prominent figures in the US who were assassinated.

Historically, assassins have gone after the PotUS, which is why the average Congressperson isn't issued protection unless there is an overt threat (Obama, when he announced his run for PotUS while still the junior senator from Illinois), or they're at the very top of the hierarchy and in line for the office of President (that would be the VP, who is also part of the Senate, and the Speaker of the House).
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 21222
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

How many of those ancient Republicans were for progressive causes? Back in the day, wasn't the ancient Republican party actually more like the modern Democrats (progressive, abolitionist, urban demographic) while the ancient Democrats ere more like modern Republicans (conservative, pro-slavery, rural demographic) until they somehow shifted?
Image "DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
User avatar
Todeswind
Jedi Knight
Posts: 927
Joined: 2008-09-01 07:16pm

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Todeswind »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:How many of those ancient Republicans were for progressive causes? Back in the day, wasn't the ancient Republican party actually more like the modern Democrats (progressive, abolitionist, urban demographic) while the ancient Democrats ere more like modern Republicans (conservative, pro-slavery, rural demographic) until they somehow shifted?
This was true up till the 60's or so. The vast majority to civil rights legislation came from democrats.
User avatar
open_sketchbook
Jedi Master
Posts: 1145
Joined: 2008-11-03 05:43pm
Location: Ottawa

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by open_sketchbook »

So, it looks to me like all the successfully assassinated presidents were progressives. Thats a freaky trend.
1980s Rock is to music what Giant Robot shows are to anime
Think about it.

Cruising low in my N-1 blasting phat beats,
showin' off my chrome on them Coruscant streets
Got my 'saber on my belt and my gat by side,
this here yellow plane makes for a sick ride
User avatar
Todeswind
Jedi Knight
Posts: 927
Joined: 2008-09-01 07:16pm

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Todeswind »

Image

Edit: God damnit Glen, cut this shit out.
weemadando
SMAKIBBFB
Posts: 19195
Joined: 2002-07-28 12:30pm
Contact:

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by weemadando »

Yeah, he looks nothing like Jack Bauer, no matter how hard he tries.
User avatar
Kon_El
Jedi Knight
Posts: 631
Joined: 2002-07-07 12:52am

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Kon_El »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:How many of those ancient Republicans were for progressive causes? Back in the day, wasn't the ancient Republican party actually more like the modern Democrats (progressive, abolitionist, urban demographic) while the ancient Democrats ere more like modern Republicans (conservative, pro-slavery, rural demographic) until they somehow shifted?
Are you seriously saying that modern Republicans are pro-slavery?
weemadando
SMAKIBBFB
Posts: 19195
Joined: 2002-07-28 12:30pm
Contact:

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by weemadando »

Kon_El wrote:
Shroom Man 777 wrote:How many of those ancient Republicans were for progressive causes? Back in the day, wasn't the ancient Republican party actually more like the modern Democrats (progressive, abolitionist, urban demographic) while the ancient Democrats ere more like modern Republicans (conservative, pro-slavery, rural demographic) until they somehow shifted?
Are you seriously saying that modern Republicans are pro-slavery?
I'm sure if a lobbyist paid any politician enough they'd probably cave. It's just that wage-slavery tends to play to the current Republican demographic a bit better
User avatar
Gil Hamilton
Tipsy Space Birdie
Posts: 12962
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
Contact:

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Broomstick wrote:The first president assasination attempt was in 1835, directed at Andrew Jackson, a "democratic-republican" (the predecessor party to modern democrats, but quite different on some key points. As a trivia note, those opposed to Jackson referred to him as "jackass", and in defiance he adopted the jackass as a symbol. And that's why the democrats are still represented by a donkey to this day).
Though in the case of Andrew Jackson, someone attempting to kill him was a regular occurrance, since he was an avid duelist, and fought over a dozen duels against people who insulted his wife. The guy was full of bullets from duels, in fact, including a bullet from an extremely skilled duelist that couldn't be removed due to its proximity to his heart, which would have likely hit him square on had Jackson not deliberately worn baggy clothing and stood somewhat sideways.

Imagine that nowadays to have a sitting President solve a dispute with pistols.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
weemadando
SMAKIBBFB
Posts: 19195
Joined: 2002-07-28 12:30pm
Contact:

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by weemadando »

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Broomstick wrote:The first president assasination attempt was in 1835, directed at Andrew Jackson, a "democratic-republican" (the predecessor party to modern democrats, but quite different on some key points. As a trivia note, those opposed to Jackson referred to him as "jackass", and in defiance he adopted the jackass as a symbol. And that's why the democrats are still represented by a donkey to this day).
Though in the case of Andrew Jackson, someone attempting to kill him was a regular occurrance, since he was an avid duelist, and fought over a dozen duels against people who insulted his wife. The guy was full of bullets from duels, in fact, including a bullet from an extremely skilled duelist that couldn't be removed due to its proximity to his heart, which would have likely hit him square on had Jackson not deliberately worn baggy clothing and stood somewhat sideways.

Imagine that nowadays to have a sitting President solve a dispute with pistols.
The Russia would rule the goddamn world.
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by SirNitram »

Kon_El wrote:
Shroom Man 777 wrote:How many of those ancient Republicans were for progressive causes? Back in the day, wasn't the ancient Republican party actually more like the modern Democrats (progressive, abolitionist, urban demographic) while the ancient Democrats ere more like modern Republicans (conservative, pro-slavery, rural demographic) until they somehow shifted?
Are you seriously saying that modern Republicans are pro-slavery?
Well, there was a recent act that died in the Senate when a GOPer blocked it, which was directly crafted to stop modern day slavery. Domestic Minor Sex Trafficking Deterrence And Victims Support Act Link.

Note: It was co-authored by a Republican(John Cornyn), and the guy blocking it was Jeff Sessions. So.. Sessions has made a clear use of Senator power indicating he's OK with slavery.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
User avatar
Todeswind
Jedi Knight
Posts: 927
Joined: 2008-09-01 07:16pm

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Todeswind »

weemadando wrote:Yeah, he looks nothing like Jack Bauer, no matter how hard he tries.
Read the title of the article directly next to the picture of glen beck holding a freaking GUN.
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Yes, it's mildly amusing.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
Ritterin Sophia
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5496
Joined: 2006-07-25 09:32am

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Ritterin Sophia »

Isolder74 wrote:Someone tried to shoot Andrew Jackson and got beaten with a cane for his trouble.
There was no 'tried' about it. Andrew Jackson was hit and still caned the assassin. :P

He'd also been shot multiple times before, most notoriously was the round lodged next to his heart from a duel where he let his opponent shoot first and then casually shot him as he reloaded. Those are only his most notable injuries, he was prone to coughing up blood and was said to have "rattled like a bag of marbles" from all the wounds he'd received. :lol:
A Certain Clique, HAB, The Chroniclers
User avatar
Spoonist
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2405
Joined: 2002-09-20 11:15am

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Spoonist »

General Schatten wrote:...
Look what gil saidlike 5 posts ago...
User avatar
LaCroix
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5196
Joined: 2004-12-21 12:14pm
Location: Sopron District, Hungary, Europe, Terra

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by LaCroix »

Spoonist wrote:
General Schatten wrote:...
Look what gil saidlike 5 posts ago...
And Spoonist gave us details not included in that above post...
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

I do archery skeet. With a Trebuchet.
User avatar
Lagmonster
Master Control Program
Master Control Program
Posts: 7719
Joined: 2002-07-04 09:53am
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Lagmonster »

General Schatten wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:Someone tried to shoot Andrew Jackson and got beaten with a cane for his trouble.
There was no 'tried' about it. Andrew Jackson was hit and still caned the assassin. :P
I'm fairly certain that in that attempt, both pistols misfired and Jackson was not injured.
Note: I'm semi-retired from the board, so if you need something, please be patient.
User avatar
Gil Hamilton
Tipsy Space Birdie
Posts: 12962
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
Contact:

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Yeah, that's my recollection as well (my US History teacher was fond of Andy Jackson stories). Still, Jackson's solution to a guy waving a pistol at him was to attack him with his cane. He may have been an evil jackass, but he had balls.

With the famous duel, I recall the rules were that Jackson HAD to let the other guy shoot first, since he goaded Jackson into challenging him, and by the rules of the time, the challenge duelist had the right to shoot first. Keep in mind that this put Jackson in a serious pickle, because his opponent was a famous pistol duelist who had left a great many men dead, which was no mean feat with pistols at the time (infection from the wound was more likely to kill you than the pistol that made it). Even though Jackson gamed the other duelist, supposedly, he's still very lucky he wasn't killed and thus would have remained a minor name in history. Ironically, it almost would have been better if the other guy had killed him; the Trail of Tears may well have been avoided if a somewhat more moderate president who listened to the courts (even if he didn't like the decision) had been in office.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
User avatar
Tsyroc
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13748
Joined: 2002-07-29 08:35am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Tsyroc »

Arizona enacts funeral protest legislation
Tucson, Arizona (CNN) -- Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed emergency legislation Tuesday that bars protests within 300 feet of a funeral and within an hour from its beginning or end.
Earlier in the day, the state legislature passed the measure, which targets a Kansas church whose members announced they plan to picket the funerals of the victims of Saturday's shootings in Tucson.
"Such despicable acts of emotional terrorism will not be tolerated in the State of Arizona," Brewer said in a statement announcing she had signed the bill. "This legislation will assure that the victims of Saturday's tragic shooting in Tucson will be laid to rest in peace with the full dignity and respect that they deserve."

The legislation makes protesting too near a funeral a misdemeanor in the state. It went into effect immediately upon Brewer's signing it.

The action is in direct response to the Westboro Baptist Church's announcement that it will picket the funeral of Christina Green, the 9-year-old who was among six people killed during Saturday's attempted assassination of U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Arizona.

The article also mentions the Angel Wings "counter protest" that has been being planned to block the Westboro Baptist Church people from the view of the funeral mourners.
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
User avatar
Isolder74
Official SD.Net Ace of Cakes
Posts: 6762
Joined: 2002-07-10 01:16am
Location: Weber State of Construction University
Contact:

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Isolder74 »

Or you could do what happened in Salt Lake City when they came here and just ignore them.

If they didn't brag about it on their Wikipedia page their coming I didn't even know about it. Takes the wind right out of their sales. How many of them are there anyway if all the funerals are on the same day miles apart they'll surely become a very miniscule presence.

The worse thing you can do is give an attention whore attention.
Hapan Battle Dragons Rule!
When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
The Prince of The Writer's Guild|HAB Spacewolf Tank General| God Bless America!
User avatar
GrandMasterTerwynn
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6787
Joined: 2002-07-29 06:14pm
Location: Somewhere on Earth.

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

More, and, more the story of Loughner is reading like one big Charlie Foxtrot on the part of everybody involved. The latest people who saw him doing very wrong things . . . his parents.
More warning signs on day of shooting

Posted: Jan 11, 2011 5:44 PM

Note: This story contains offensive language, view at your own discretion.

TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) Authorities are learning new information about the events leading up to the assassination attempt. Sheriff Clarence Dupnik tells the AP that on the morning of the shooting, Jared Loughner's father saw his son take a black bag out of a car trunk.

The sheriff says the father approached Loughner, and he mumbled something and took off running. The father got in his truck and chased his son into the desert as he fled on foot.


A sheriff's official tells The Associated Press that the suspect in Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' shooting wrote the words "Die, bitch" on a note found in his home.

Pima County Chief Rick Kastigar said authorities believe the note was a reference to Giffords. It was found alongside other menacing notes including "I planned ahead," "My assassination" and the name "Giffords."
That's right . . . his parents knew that he was up to something. It was disturbing enough that his father felt compelled to jump into his truck and give chase to his son. But did they call the cops? Nah. Did they bother to take a look in his room, where they would've found the annotated edition of Jared Loughner's Guide to Assassinating Members of Congress? Maybe. Wouldn't surprise me if they knew that their son harbored such ill-will.

I felt compelled to mention this on the heels of the news that Loughner's parents released a statement about the shooting.
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Whops, beaten.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
Talhe
Padawan Learner
Posts: 162
Joined: 2010-08-25 03:43pm

Re: Gunman attacks political event in Tucson, 12 wounded.

Post by Talhe »

Poor Palin claims she's being the target of a blood libel:
(Reuters) - Prominent Republican Sarah Palin on Wednesday accused critics of "blood libel" by blaming her rhetoric for contributing to the shooting rampage in Tucson that killed six and wounded 14, including Democratic Representative Gabrielle Giffords.

"Acts of monstrous criminality stand on their own. They begin and end with the criminals who commit them," the conservative Tea Party favorite and former Alaska governor said in her first major response to critics.

"Especially within hours of a tragedy unfolding, journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn. That is reprehensible."

Palin, the Republican Party's 2008 vice presidential nominee, posted her remarks to her Facebook page in both a video and text.

Suspected gunman Jared Lee Loughner faces five federal charges, including the attempted assassination of Giffords, who was in critical condition with a bullet wound to the head after being shot at a constituent outreach event at a Tucson, Arizona, shopping mall.

Some commentators and bloggers questioned whether last year's election rhetoric from conservative Republicans including Palin and some Tea Party candidates created a climate that bred violence.

Politicians from both parties have urged a softening of the often bitter political tone.

Authorities have not cited a motive in the shootings.

Palin urged conservatives to "reload," not retreat, after a fierce debate over President Barack Obama's plans to overhaul the healthcare system. She also published an electoral map identifying vulnerable Democratic congressional districts, including Giffords', with rifle cross-hairs.

Palin said blame should rest "not with all the citizens of a state, not with those who listen to talk radio, not with maps of swing districts used by both sides of the aisle, not with law-abiding citizens who respectfully exercise their First Amendment rights at campaign rallies, not with those who proudly voted in the last election."
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70B3W320110112
What can change the nature of Man?

-Ravel Puzzlewel, Planescape: Torment
Post Reply