Complain about hidden cameras and you might get committed.

[General Zod]

http://blogs.forbes.com/kashmirhill/201 ... complaint/

Your housing situation can be one of the most stressful aspects of the whole college experience. Especially if your roommates are writing nasty things about you on the Internet and your landlord has planted a hidden camera in your bedroom. Such was the situation for Chinemerem Eze, a Nigerian student at Brooklyn College, in December 2008, according to a lawsuit she’s filed in New York Supreme Court.

When a college student complains about secret surveillance — as Tyler Clementi did last year — I’ve said before that they should be offered other housing arrangements. Eze did get new digs, but they weren’t very attractive ones. When she went to the Brooklyn College Campus Security and Safety Office to complain about her suspicions, they offered her an involuntary two-week stay at a psychiatric hospital.

Eze says that when she talked to security officers about being defamed on the Internet and secretly filmed by her landlord in her off-campus apartment, they brought in a psychologist. After asking her a few questions, the psychologist called an ambulance and had her committed to Kings County Psychiatric Hospital. Her One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest’s experience lasted two weeks.

When she flew the nest, she discovered that there was a hidden camera in her apartment. (On the defamation front, I see no nasty results in her Google search results.) She missed her final exams and was not able to complete them, and wound up losing a scholarship she’d received from the school, according to her attorney.

Now she’s suing the security officers, psychologist, and the school for negligence, emotional distress, and false imprisonment. Her lawyer, Andrew Spinnell, says this was “totally inappropriate conduct by the college.”

Brooklyn College had no comment on the suit. It will be defended by the New York Attorney General’s office since the college is governed by the state. The AG’s office also had no comment.

This all took place in late 2008. Perhaps back then, it did seem crazy to have someone come in and complain about hidden cameras and the like. But nowadays, it seems crazy not to assume you’re being observed by hidden cameras at some point in your day.

I'm sure there's more going on here than we're aware of, but seriously? Committing someone for two weeks seems pretty extreme. Especially considering all sorts of incidents of people getting spied on by webcams in their computers over the last few years.

[Stark]

In what crazy land can being committed not allow you to defer your exams?

[Alphawolf55]

And to think I'm resuming school there in two weeks. Though from my experiences in the city, being put to a hospital is a pretty typical response for issues in the city since they get alot of money from the Federal government.

[Psychic_Sandwich]

In what crazy land can being committed not allow you to defer your exams?

In America, obviously. I wouldn't be surprised if they made her pay the bill for her unplanned holiday as well.

[Broomstick]

Don't be silly - of course she'll be billed for that hospital stay. If she's lucky 50-80% of it will be covered by insurance but she'll be on the hook for the rest. Because that's the way the "system" works in the US.

[Serafina]

What irks me here is that she was apparently forcibly commited to the psycatric hospital solely on the psychologists say- so. Around here, a judge has to confirm any such measure within a short timeframe, similar to being arrested. Perhaps that was simply ommited from the article, but if that is not the case in the USA, that's a serious problem.

[MKSheppard]

You know, this is when Irony proves she's a total bitch; when someone clearly with so many screws loose as Loughner simply isn't committed; while someone else is easily.

[fgalkin]

This is VERY irregular and I am certain there is much more to the story than that.

Also, the "not being able to take the exams" is bullshit. I was sick and missed my finals one semester at Hunter (another CUNY school), and I was allowed to re-take them in April, based only on a doctor's note (I think it was notarized). The scholarship thing might be true, if it requires a certain GPA, and without her taking the exams, all her grades are currently NC (no credit) and will remain so until she re-takes them in the spring.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[General Zod]

Also, the "not being able to take the exams" is bullshit. I was sick and missed my finals one semester at Hunter (another CUNY school), and I was allowed to re-take them in April, based only on a doctor's note (I think it was notarized).

Some schools won't accept deferrals after a certain timeframe regardless of the reason. Unless I'm mistaken there's no uniform method of deferrals from uni to uni.

[Aaron]

What irks me here is that she was apparently forcibly commited to the psycatric hospital solely on the psychologists say- so. Around here, a judge has to confirm any such measure within a short timeframe, similar to being arrested. Perhaps that was simply ommited from the article, but if that is not the case in the USA, that's a serious problem.

Actually, I find it more worrisome that they did it on the say so of a psychologist rather then a psychiatrist. The former can't diagnose fuck and all and certainly should have referred the case to a psychiatrist.

I dunno, this seems...odd.

[fgalkin]

Also, the "not being able to take the exams" is bullshit. I was sick and missed my finals one semester at Hunter (another CUNY school), and I was allowed to re-take them in April, based only on a doctor's note (I think it was notarized).

Some schools won't accept deferrals after a certain timeframe regardless of the reason. Unless I'm mistaken there's no uniform method of deferrals from uni to uni.

That's why I specified that I went to a school in the same system, which should have the same policy.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Serafina]

What irks me here is that she was apparently forcibly commited to the psycatric hospital solely on the psychologists say- so. Around here, a judge has to confirm any such measure within a short timeframe, similar to being arrested. Perhaps that was simply ommited from the article, but if that is not the case in the USA, that's a serious problem.

Actually, I find it more worrisome that they did it on the say so of a psychologist rather then a psychiatrist. The former can't diagnose fuck and all and certainly should have referred the case to a psychiatrist.

I dunno, this seems...odd.

Good one, i missed that while reading. After all, a psychologist can't even proscribe medication on his own.
So yes - if the content of that article is accurate, someone screwed up very seriously. Or the psychiatric system in the USA is extremely screwed up, or the article is just plain wrong.

[fgalkin]

What irks me here is that she was apparently forcibly commited to the psycatric hospital solely on the psychologists say- so. Around here, a judge has to confirm any such measure within a short timeframe, similar to being arrested. Perhaps that was simply ommited from the article, but if that is not the case in the USA, that's a serious problem.

Actually, I find it more worrisome that they did it on the say so of a psychologist rather then a psychiatrist. The former can't diagnose fuck and all and certainly should have referred the case to a psychiatrist.

I dunno, this seems...odd.

Good one, i missed that while reading. After all, a psychologist can't even proscribe medication on his own.
So yes - if the content of that article is accurate, someone screwed up very seriously. Or the psychiatric system in the USA is extremely screwed up, or the article is just plain wrong.

Considering that it's an entertainment blog, my bet is "the article is wrong" and "Zod should check his sources before posting".


Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Terralthra]

What irks me here is that she was apparently forcibly commited to the psycatric hospital solely on the psychologists say- so. Around here, a judge has to confirm any such measure within a short timeframe, similar to being arrested. Perhaps that was simply ommited from the article, but if that is not the case in the USA, that's a serious problem.

Actually, I find it more worrisome that they did it on the say so of a psychologist rather then a psychiatrist. The former can't diagnose fuck and all and certainly should have referred the case to a psychiatrist.

I dunno, this seems...odd.

A psychologist can't diagnose fuck-all? Um, what? Anyone who is certified to use the term "psychologist" at a university in the state of New York is required to have a doctoral degree in psychology, meaning anywhere from 7-10 years of education in the diagnosis and treatment of mental illness, plus a 2-year supervised internship (source). Yet you say they can't do that thing they've been training to do for a decade. What the fuck?

[General Zod]

]
Considering that it's an entertainment blog, my bet is "the article is wrong" and "Zod should check his sources before posting".


Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Turns out the one I linked to was simply incomplete, not incorrect. Of course you could have always checked yourself. http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/01/07/33131.htm

Finally, she says, when she tried to take her final exams and obtain grades for her 12 to 15 credits of courses, in January 2009, "defendant [Milga] Morales of Brooklyn College directed the professors of plaintiff's courses not to permit her to complete the final examinations, and thereby terminated Plaintiff's enrollment at Brooklyn College."
Morales is the dean of student affairs.
Eze seeks punitive damages for negligence, negligent supervision, civil rights violations and emotional distress. She is represented by Andrew Spinnell.

[Serafina]

A psychologist can't diagnose fuck-all? Um, what? Anyone who is certified to use the term "psychologist" at a university in the state of New York is required to have a doctoral degree in psychology, meaning anywhere from 7-10 years of education in the diagnosis and treatment of mental illness, plus a 2-year supervised internship (source). Yet you say they can't do that thing they've been training to do for a decade. What the fuck?

A psychologist is not even allowed to proscribe medication, much less commit you to a psychiatric hospital. Put simply, he has no medical training, and is thus not qualified to make medical decisions. He can of course give a psychological diagnosis, but he is not allowed to order any treatment due to them without a psychatrists or MD.

[fgalkin]

So, in other news, the blogger just took a Court News article (which consists of listing the plaintiff's claims), plus doing such amazing research as "On the defamation front, I see no nasty results in her Google search results."


So, in other words, all we have is the plaintiff's words and nothing else. Here's a hint for you: you can claim anything without presenting any evidence whatsoever. When we were going to court trying to evict a tenant for not paying his rent for 3 months, he claimed that neither the heater nor the bathrooms worked, and other such stuff. Which was, of course, utter bullshit, and got thrown out as soon as a judge looked at his so-called "evidence."

The moral of the story? Don't post things that consisted of unsubstantiated hearsay, and don't post blogs as news. Hell, I think we even have a rule about that somewhere.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Mr Bean]

Moral of the story is we don't know jacks shit about the case, and making this topic for discussion when there are huge parts of the story obviously missing is asking for trouble.

[General Zod]

So, in other news, the blogger just took a Court News article (which consists of listing the plaintiff's claims), plus doing such amazing research as "On the defamation front, I see no nasty results in her Google search results."

Who gives a shit about the defamation claims? The real issue here is being locked up on nothing but a psychologist's say-so.

So, in other words, all we have is the plaintiff's words and nothing else. Here's a hint for you: you can claim anything without presenting any evidence whatsoever. When we were going to court trying to evict a tenant for not paying his rent for 3 months, he claimed that neither the heater nor the bathrooms worked, and other such stuff. Which was, of course, utter bullshit, and got thrown out as soon as a judge looked at his so-called "evidence."

The moral of the story? Don't post things that consisted of unsubstantiated hearsay, and don't post blogs as news. Hell, I think we even have a rule about that somewhere.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Because articles with just one side don't get posted on here all the time or anything right? It's not as if I didn't already say there's bound to be more to this.

[Terralthra]

A psychologist can't diagnose fuck-all? Um, what? Anyone who is certified to use the term "psychologist" at a university in the state of New York is required to have a doctoral degree in psychology, meaning anywhere from 7-10 years of education in the diagnosis and treatment of mental illness, plus a 2-year supervised internship (source). Yet you say they can't do that thing they've been training to do for a decade. What the fuck?

A psychologist is not even allowed to proscribe medication, much less commit you to a psychiatric hospital. Put simply, he has no medical training, and is thus not qualified to make medical decisions. He can of course give a psychological diagnosis, but he is not allowed to order any treatment due to them without a psychatrists or MD.

Your logic is faulty. As a psychologist, he or she can not prescribe medication (hint: prescribe and proscribe don't mean the same thing). This has nothing to do with his or her ability to order other non-prescription treatment. If a psychologist sees a patient who in his judgment is a danger to him/herself or others, he/she can commit them for involuntary observation in most states, including New York (and is, in fact, duty-bound to do so). New York specifies that if they're going to be kept longer than 72 hours involuntarily, a psychiatrist must be called in to evaluate them. This is all specified in NY state law, explicitly, and the idea that three people have now ignorantly commented to the contrary without even bothering to check is both hilarious and pathetic.

[Aaron]

Hey, fair enough. My apologies.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

What irks me here is that she was apparently forcibly commited to the psycatric hospital solely on the psychologists say- so. Around here, a judge has to confirm any such measure within a short timeframe, similar to being arrested. Perhaps that was simply ommited from the article, but if that is not the case in the USA, that's a serious problem.

Actually, I find it more worrisome that they did it on the say so of a psychologist rather then a psychiatrist. The former can't diagnose fuck and all and certainly should have referred the case to a psychiatrist.

I dunno, this seems...odd.

In most US states it is possible for any doctoral-level mental health practitioner, psychologist or pschiatrist, to have someone committed for observation. Normally this period is only 72-hours, but it might be 2-weeks in New York State. Being committed for observation carries no penalties, however. If the person is not subsequently brought before a judge to actually be committed for a sustained, longer period of time, they do not in fact lose any rights, like the ability to vote or possess firearms. B ut yes, the mere word of a psychologist or psychiatrist is enough to have you temporarily confined to a mental hospital and force you to defend yourself against further confinement in court. This is one of the reasons I despise the profession--despite not being remotely as heavily regulated as police, they essentially have the ability to place you under arrest.

[Aaron]

In most US states it is possible for any doctoral-level mental health practitioner, psychologist or pschiatrist, to have someone committed for observation. Normally this period is only 72-hours, but it might be 2-weeks in New York State. Being committed for observation carries no penalties, however. If the person is not subsequently brought before a judge to actually be committed for a sustained, longer period of time, they do not in fact lose any rights, like the ability to vote or possess firearms. B ut yes, the mere word of a psychologist or psychiatrist is enough to have you temporarily confined to a mental hospital and force you to defend yourself against further confinement in court. This is one of the reasons I despise the profession--despite not being remotely as heavily regulated as police, they essentially have the ability to place you under arrest.

Interesting contrast to here then, IIRC from conversations with my psychologist, she doesn't have this ability.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

In most US states it is possible for any doctoral-level mental health practitioner, psychologist or pschiatrist, to have someone committed for observation. Normally this period is only 72-hours, but it might be 2-weeks in New York State. Being committed for observation carries no penalties, however. If the person is not subsequently brought before a judge to actually be committed for a sustained, longer period of time, they do not in fact lose any rights, like the ability to vote or possess firearms. B ut yes, the mere word of a psychologist or psychiatrist is enough to have you temporarily confined to a mental hospital and force you to defend yourself against further confinement in court. This is one of the reasons I despise the profession--despite not being remotely as heavily regulated as police, they essentially have the ability to place you under arrest.

Interesting contrast to here then, IIRC from conversations with my psychologist, she doesn't have this ability.

Good. It's fundamentally contrary to due process since it only requires a belief that you might be a threat to yourself, others, or property (!), rather than police arrest powers that are limited to suspicion of having committed a crime. A virtually unregulated profession in the US is allowed to lock people up on their own unconfirmed belief that a person might be a threat to themselves, others, or even property. This is why the mental health profession in the US must be actually reigned in, because as long as it has powers like that without a level of regulation similar to that which is required for the police, many people will lie to therapists or not go to them out of fear of the consequences being like this. I can basically guarantee that the MHP in question saw this woman for about fifteen minutes, thought, "she sees hidden cameras everywhere? Obviously needs to be locked up" and called up the local police and mental health assessor and had her carted away just like that, and it took two weeks for them to actually arrange her date in court at which she was released.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Of course, this ability also means that, since most people like paranoid schizophrenics research heavily into the mental health field these days, this further deters them from seeking any kind of help, which is a further cause of what happened in Tucson. By giving detention authority to the people who are supposed to be helping individuals, you guarantee many of those who need help, will not seek help.