China says to Lousiana "Ours is longer than yours..."

[Mr. Coffee]

No, not their dicks, you perverts.

At 26.4 miles long, the Qingdao Haiwan Bridge would easily cross the English Channel and is almost three miles longer than the previous record-holder, the Lake Pontchartrain Causeway in the American state of Louisiana.

The vast structure links the centre of the booming port city of Qingdao in eastern China's Shandong Province with the suburb of Huangdao, spanning the wide blue waters of Jiaozhou Bay.

Built in just four years at a cost of £5.5 billion, the sheer scale of the bridge reveals the advances made by Chinese engineers in recent years.

No longer dependent on western expertise for such sophisticated projects, the six-lane road bridge is supported by more than 5,200 columns and was designed by the Shandong Gausu Group. When it opens to traffic later this year, the bridge is expected to carry over 30,000 cars a day and will cut the commute between the city of Qingdao and the sprawling suburb of Huangdao by between 20 and 30 minutes.

At least 10,000 workers toiled in two teams around the clock to build the bridge, which was constructed from opposite ends and connected in the middle in the last few days.

New world's longest bridge.

[weemadando]

How long until it collapses due to someone cutting costs on the concrete/steel/labour?

[K. A. Pital]

How long until it collapses due to someone cutting costs on the concrete/steel/labour?

China has been building superlong bridges for a while now. I see no reason for ridicule.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Hold on...

They spend $5.5 billion and 4 years to cut the commute to work by a whole 20-30 minutes? If it had been a couple hours then ok, that's good, but 20-30 minutes is kinda underwhelming for such a huge project.

Methinks there was a large "look how awesome we can be without you" aspect to this.

[weemadando]

How long until it collapses due to someone cutting costs on the concrete/steel/labour?

China has been building superlong bridges for a while now. I see no reason for ridicule.

I suppose for a "glorious people's project" (ie, showing the world that they have huge dicks) they probably would have had some oversight. And said oversight would have had guns pointed at the back of their head.

[Lusankya]

Hold on...

They spend $5.5 billion and 4 years to cut the commute to work by a whole 20-30 minutes? If it had been a couple hours then ok, that's good, but 20-30 minutes is kinda underwhelming for such a huge project.

Methinks there was a large "look how awesome we can be without you" aspect to this.

What, you think they should wait until traffic conditions get intolerable before embarking on infrastructure projects, rather than building the infrastructure in advance so that the problems don't occur in the first place?


weemadando: I know you think that your constant China bashing is funny, but it really isn't. It just reeks of ignorance and bigotry.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

And to think that in America we would have given this money to Goldman Sachs for more hookers and blow. This is a pretty graphic example of why China is a country on the rise and the USA is a country on the decline.

[spartasman]

According to the article, even the Chinese are complaining about it only cutting the distance of travelers by nineteen miles. Wouldn't the money be better spent upgrading existing roads and bridges? I mean, the maintenance costs alone on a bridge that large have to be staggering, and over the long term improved roads would certainly be a better alternative that a bridge.

[PainRack]

Hold on...

They spend $5.5 billion and 4 years to cut the commute to work by a whole 20-30 minutes? If it had been a couple hours then ok, that's good, but 20-30 minutes is kinda underwhelming for such a huge project.

Methinks there was a large "look how awesome we can be without you" aspect to this.

Or..... its also part of the huge stimulus money they pumped into the economy 2 years back.

Say. What HAS the US done with all those shovel ready projects?

[Cecelia5578]

And to think that in America we would have given this money to Goldman Sachs for more hookers and blow. This is a pretty graphic example of why China is a country on the rise and the USA is a country on the decline.

Also, China doesn't have the degree of NIMBYism that exists here in the US to block large infrastructure/transportation projects. Opposition to high speed rail in California is a textbook example.

[weemadando]

weemadando: I know you think that your constant China bashing is funny, but it really isn't. It just reeks of ignorance and bigotry.

As others have pointed out the bridge itself is an impressive feat, but doesn't seem to have a great cost:benefit ratio. As a stimulus project that's great as it's clearly doing a lot for employment and expertise. The whole "mine is longer" thing from the OP kinda sets the tone here. Awesome bridge is awesome. Just like that one in France. Or any of the other amazing bits of infrastructure around the world.

However, the fact is that China doesn't have the greatest history when it comes to building/construction regulations and safety and control of supply chain quality. If pointing out that cut corners, blatantly illegal and dangerous practices and capital punishment if you are caught are, if not common place, then at least significantly more common in China is "china bashing" then call it that.

The fact that it is a big, high profile national showcase piece like the 3 Gorges means that there probably was excellent oversight on it. But hey, I guess I already said that.

*edit* Oh yeah, and I resent the use of the term "bigot". I prefer misanthrope. You might notice that I say all manner of truths libel horrible things with a fair degree of equality when it comes to targeting it.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Hold on...

They spend $5.5 billion and 4 years to cut the commute to work by a whole 20-30 minutes? If it had been a couple hours then ok, that's good, but 20-30 minutes is kinda underwhelming for such a huge project.

Methinks there was a large "look how awesome we can be without you" aspect to this.

What, you think they should wait until traffic conditions get intolerable before embarking on infrastructure projects, rather than building the infrastructure in advance so that the problems don't occur in the first place?

On the contrary, I think it's great that they are doing sometihng. It's just I was expecting a more spectacular reduction in travel time for such a grand project

[weemadando]

And to think that in America we would have given this money to Goldman Sachs for more hookers and blow. This is a pretty graphic example of why China is a country on the rise and the USA is a country on the decline.

Also, China doesn't have the degree of NIMBYism that exists here in the US to block large infrastructure/transportation projects. Opposition to high speed rail in California is a textbook example.

Same in Australia. We have idiotic opposition on a disturbing large scale to:

City level public transport reform.
State level rail upgrades.
National level rail upgrades.
Recycled water plants (Poo-womba anyone?)
Desalinated water plants
Wind power.
Solar power.
Increases to urban density/reducing sprawl.

Turns out that once you are living comfortably in the first world you get to be really reactionary with anything that might unbalance your enjoyable status quo.

[weemadando]

Hold on...

They spend $5.5 billion and 4 years to cut the commute to work by a whole 20-30 minutes? If it had been a couple hours then ok, that's good, but 20-30 minutes is kinda underwhelming for such a huge project.

Methinks there was a large "look how awesome we can be without you" aspect to this.

What, you think they should wait until traffic conditions get intolerable before embarking on infrastructure projects, rather than building the infrastructure in advance so that the problems don't occur in the first place?

On the contrary, I think it's great that they are doing sometihng. It's just I was expecting a more spectacular reduction in travel time for such a grand project

Given the location (Qingdao) you're talking about a total of about 8m people in the greater area. So a saving of 20-30 minutes a day is going to add up if enough people use it. I'd be interested in seeing how much of the traffic ends up being commuter vs heavy vehicle though. And I find it interesting too that they didn't opt to put a rail component in.

[Stark]

Yeah, judging a transport system by 'time saved' is stupid; its how many people use it (and arguably what it does to local supply chains) that's important.

[Eternal_Freedom]

"Snip"

On the contrary, I think it's great that they are doing something. It's just I was expecting a more spectacular reduction in travel time for such a grand project

Given the location (Qingdao) you're talking about a total of about 8m people in the greater area. So a saving of 20-30 minutes a day is going to add up if enough people use it. I'd be interested in seeing how much of the traffic ends up being commuter vs heavy vehicle though. And I find it interesting too that they didn't opt to put a rail component in.

Fair point, chalk that one up to misconceptions about large numbers of commuters (living in a small town in Wales, 8m people in a suburb is difficult to picture).

I was wondering about a rail component. I wouldn't have thought it would have been that much harder to put in.

[Stark]

Why would they do that if they didn't need it?

[LadyTevar]

Or..... its also part of the huge stimulus money they pumped into the economy 2 years back.

Say. What HAS the US done with all those shovel ready projects?

Repaired bridges across WV.

[Lonestar]

Or..... its also part of the huge stimulus money they pumped into the economy 2 years back.

Say. What HAS the US done with all those shovel ready projects?

I know that they repaved the Washington Beltway within the first 12 months)with the Big Goddamn "Your recovery dollars at work sign" between the I-270 Spur and American Legion Bridge. It doesn't sound like much, but it was in dire need of it.

A lot of a National Park and backcountry infastructure stuff was covered by the Stimulus Act. Lots of work was done(and is still ebing done) in Shenandoah National Park, and I can think of at least one back country shovel-ready infastructure project already done(the bridge at Big Schloss in George Washington National Forest). But since infastructure work is so rare in National Parks and National Forests, this sort of thing really jumps at you.

Since the NPS and NFS are always so chronically underfunded I'm sure that both agencies had all the paperwork for the projects sitting in a pile somewhere, just waiting for funding.

[weemadando]

Why would they do that if they didn't need it?

My thought on the rail component was more to do with there's still a very low rate of personal motor car ownership/use (though it is rapidly rising). I'd have thought that a rail option on a project this size would have been a reasonable addition to allow public transport to gain the same time-cut.

[General Zod]

Why would they do that if they didn't need it?

My thought on the rail component was more to do with there's still a very low rate of personal motor car ownership/use (though it is rapidly rising). I'd have thought that a rail option on a project this size would have been a reasonable addition to allow public transport to gain the same time-cut.

Maybe it just wasn't in the budget?

[Chaotic Neutral]

It's likely that a train going around the water could beat the cars using the bridge once you account for traffic and the speed of a train.

[Jaepheth]

Hold on...

They spend $5.5 billion and 4 years to cut the commute to work by a whole 20-30 minutes? If it had been a couple hours then ok, that's good, but 20-30 minutes is kinda underwhelming for such a huge project.

Methinks there was a large "look how awesome we can be without you" aspect to this.

Just me nit-picking:

They spent 5.5 Billion pounds

Which at current exchange (according to Google) is around 8.7 billion USD

[mr friendly guy]

weemadando: I know you think that your constant China bashing is funny, but it really isn't. It just reeks of ignorance and bigotry.

As others have pointed out the bridge itself is an impressive feat, but doesn't seem to have a great cost:benefit ratio. As a stimulus project that's great as it's clearly doing a lot for employment and expertise. The whole "mine is longer" thing from the OP kinda sets the tone here. Awesome bridge is awesome. Just like that one in France. Or any of the other amazing bits of infrastructure around the world.

However, the fact is that China doesn't have the greatest history when it comes to building/construction regulations and safety and control of supply chain quality. If pointing out that cut corners, blatantly illegal and dangerous practices and capital punishment if you are caught are, if not common place, then at least significantly more common in China is "china bashing" then call it that.

The fact that it is a big, high profile national showcase piece like the 3 Gorges means that there probably was excellent oversight on it. But hey, I guess I already said that.

*edit* Oh yeah, and I resent the use of the term "bigot". I prefer misanthrope. You might notice that I say all manner of truths libel horrible things with a fair degree of equality when it comes to targeting it.

1. You only admitted to high quality oversight when you were called on it, or would you like to look back at your first post? The fact is this is only the longest bridge over water. Other bridges are longer and China has built lots of those.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lo ... _the_world

The Chinese have shown an ability to churn out big infrastructure projects, which are somewhat different from shitty homebuilders building crappy schools.

2. The benefit of the bridge is up for debate. The article says they are going on the assumption that it caters to 30 000 cars a day. However considering you were bitching how Krudd gave us $900 each of our stimulus package instead of building infrastructure, its hilarious when you complain that China uses its money on infrastructure.

3. Bashing something only works when there is a modicrum of truth to the issue. Gross generalisations where you apply one aspect to another doesn't work. If I bashed the England for not being able to play cricket, the only person that looks stupid would be myself, because they haven't been crap for a long time. Given that China has been building big infrastructure projects for some time, it makes you look stupid.

4. This isn't the first time you made some comment on China which is ridiculous.

Remember your comparison that China was like North Korea? Or your attempt to cast aspersion on them because their central bank raised interest rates to combat inflation - something our reserve bank does every year for the past few years, but that time only overextended homeowners bitch.

[weemadando]

Wow, do you have a dirt file on everyone on the board or just me?

BTW - that interest rate comment that you refer to, all I did was make the comment that there had been two large economic events on the same day. And then said that we didn't know whether or not it was planned, but that even unintentional, the announcements when combined had the potential to cause serious impacts. HOLY SHIT. BIGOTRY CONFIRMED.

If you want to call me a bigot, then I'll concede that my border-line troll of the Tibet thread is about as close as you come. But as you say, yourself it's not like I don't say nasty things about everyone. The Australian stimulus stuff is a good example.

BTW - I'm not sure where you get the idea that I'm complaining about China spending money on infrastructure, I'm questioning the return on investment that they'll get out of this (as building a money blackhole isn't good stimulus spending). But, again, I've already covered the fact that it probably will be a good investment given the location and the details provided in the OP and the increasing level of private vehicle ownership. My only query raised about suitability after that point in the discussion was passed was whether a rail component would have been worthwhile.

And I'm not sure if you can call it a gross generalisation to say that China's record when it comes to OHS and building standards isn't excellent. The exception seems to be the large showcase projects (which I seem to recall saying some time ago). Backyard coalmines, melamine in foodstuffs, whole cities collapsing in earthquakes because building regs weren't followed, the drywall sulfur issues and many more toxicity and safety issues make my statement true. There's been some improvement as there hasn't been a major toxicity scandal I've heard of in the past 12 months or so, but the problems still exist.

And my comparison that China was like North Korea? Care to point that out, because a lazy few minutes of searching can't turn it up. Perhaps some context might help.