ITT there are angsty giant robots.

[weemadando]

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/inde ... ngelion20/

Looks like a rehash of exisitng stuff with a few re-draws and some new touch-ups.

Yawn. But I'm sure some folks with soil their pants for this shit.

[adam_grif]

They're doing 4 movies, 2 of them are out. The first one is a retelling of the first few episodes of the series with some minor alterations, but the second one is reportedly significantly changing things up, introducing new characters and so on. The biggest difference is likely to be the ending.

I doubt I'll watch it though, even though I did enjoy Evangelion somewhat. Weird ass ending.

[Ford Prefect]

Looks like a rehash of exisitng stuff with a few re-draws and some new touch-ups.

A few re-draws and touch ups? Are you blind?

[Cykeisme]

I understand there have been quite a few "reimaginings" of Evangelion, some with multiple different endings. Personally, I have only viewed the original (both of the two endings).

Do any of these various re-tellings give Shinji more characteristics that would suggest the presence of testosterone in his system?

[SilverWingedSeraph]

The first movie, Rebuild of Evangelion 1.0: You Are (Not) Alone was, yeah, mostly a rehash of the first few episodes of the original series, albeit with better animation and compressed a little bit, but it works a lot better than the original anime series did, I think. The second movie is...

Well, it keeps some elements from the series, but twists them around a lot and ends in such a way that there's no way the next two movies will bear much resemblance to the original anime in terms of plot progression.

On the whole, I found Rebuild of Evangelion to actually get me liking Evangelion again. I enjoyed the original anime when I watched it as a teen, but quickly found myself not enjoying it as I grew up. RoE keeps most of the things I liked, and improves upon things that bothered me. The character development for the three pilots is better, I think, in general. My friends who have watched it tend to agree.

It could get even better from here. Or it could end up a horrible trainwreck. I guess I'll wait and see.

Do any of these various re-tellings give Shinji more characteristics that would suggest the presence of testosterone in his system?

Well... I'm going to have to go with "yes". Without spoiling anything, Shinji has a fairly badass moment at the end of Rebuild 2.0.

[Ford Prefect]

Do any of these various re-tellings give Shinji more characteristics that would suggest the presence of testosterone in his system?

He's not really that much different to how he was in the series. You know, the guy who jumps into volcanos without prompting.

[Crossroads Inc.]

I've heard a lot of good things about this, basically its got massively toned done Angst and drama

[Talhe]

I've heard a lot of good things about this, basically its got massively toned done Angst and drama

Pretty much. The second movie is where it began to split with the original series, and all of the characters seem to be both less angsty and more human. Rei shows more emotion, Gendo isn't as terrible a person, Asuka doesn't make me want to strangle her, ect ect.

The animation is top-notch, and the music is fairly epic. The plot probably doesn't make much sense to those who didn't see the original, though, and the new elements just make it more jumbled.

[SylasGaunt]

Yeah, rebuild is a huge improvement so far. The first movie runs from Sachiel to Ramiel while cutting most of the BS, the second changes angel orders, introduces new angels, a new pilot, and basically alters stuff so much I have no clue where it's going.

Also, Zeruel's music is awesome.

[Seggybop]

Do any of these various re-tellings give Shinji more characteristics that would suggest the presence of testosterone in his system?

yes

I saw it when it when it first came out and was completely unprepared for the comparative level of awesomeness exhibited compared to the original. Utterly owned.

This movie is amazing and you should go see it if you haven't already in the 1.5 years it's been out for

[CaptHawkeye]

Ford was right, like 3 posts and we've already got the "is shinji still a bitch" complaints.

What is characterization am I right?

On Rebuild, it's basically better than the series. It's actually really hard to watch 1.0 and then try to watch NGE again because Rebuild looks better and has better pacing. Even if the pacing is a bit on the jumpy side. A lot of the needless stuff has been dropped. No Leliel though.

[jollyreaper]

EVA is probably one of the greatest examples of writing without a plan I've ever seen. Less planning was put into it than either the Star Wars prequels or the Galactica remake but it seemed to hold up as an intentional act of creative genius right up until the point where it went off the rails with the last two episodes and then the theatrical remake of those episodes which was a giant "fuck you" to the fans.

Even with Shinji being a bitch and all the characters being fucked up emotional basketcases, I was completely into the whole premise. The thing that miffed me was finding out later that every bit of the Christian religious imagery was thrown in there for "mysterious western themes" shit with the same level of thought and contemplation a cheerleader uses when getting a chinese character tattoo. The director insisted the whole show was a coming of age story related to Shinji and the giant robots and alien gods and shit was superfluous. Yeah, really? Then why didn't you make a whiny afternoon special without any of that stuff in there? Oh, right -- because nobody would care.

[CaptHawkeye]

Evangelion doesn't have a plan? Are we serious? Anno planned everything, the overarching story is actually very, very simple. It just has lots of little nuances and details that people look waaaay too much into.

Oh christ not more "last two episodes" shit again.

[jollyreaper]

Evangelion doesn't have a plan? Are we serious? Anno planned everything, the overarching story is actually very, very simple. It just has lots of little nuances and details that people look waaaay too much into.

Oh christ not more "last two episodes" shit again.

I don't have the articles to cite directly but there were a lot of ass-pulls in Evangelion. They weren't as visible because they held up so well, you had to read the commentary from the creators to find out what they were. And yes, there are two kinds of people in the word: those who realize the last two episodes of EVA were dreadful and those who haven't realized it yet.

[Stark]

Well I'm convinced. You referring to vague references and declaring by fiat sure carries more weight than statements by the creator.

[CaptHawkeye]

And yes, there are two kinds of people in the word: those who realize the last two episodes of EVA were dreadful and those who haven't realized it yet.

And then their are also those who realize the last two episodes were the result of budget constraints, not artistic choice. Can you guess which group you're a part of?

[jollyreaper]

Wouldn't a director who planned things out not be surprised by budgetary constraints?

The religious symbolism in NGE is actually not used in any sort of religiously meaningful fashion. According to Evangelion Assistant Director Kazuya Tsurumaki:
"There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us. Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians. There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool. If we had known the show would get distributed in the US and Europe we might have rethought that choice"

http://wiki.evageeks.org/index.php?titl ... onceptions

[jollyreaper]

Well I'm convinced. You referring to vague references and declaring by fiat sure carries more weight than statements by the creator.

Were you aware George Lucas had mapped out the whole Star Wars story from the start and it was always about the tragedy of Darth Vader? It's true! The creator said so himself!

[CaptHawkeye]

Did you really answer a claim about the show's development with a reference to some forum's irrelevant wiki page? You didn't even quote something relevant to what we're talking about!

Next you'll say the director could see into the future and would have been able to deal with a tight budget. Oh wait!

[jollyreaper]

Did you really answer a claim about the show's development with a reference to some forum's irrelevant wiki page? You didn't even quote something relevant to what we're talking about!

Next you'll say the director could see into the future and would have been able to deal with a tight budget. Oh wait!

It's not called seeing into the future, it's called planning ahead and working within your means. Or are you meaning to say that most projects are started with no concept of how much they will eventually cost and the money on hand to pay for it? Then again, maybe you work in IT. If so, you have my sympathies.

[Formless]

I've heard of Rebuild, but I haven't seen it. Frankly though I'm not interested.

1) Mari. Just why?

2) I actually didn't mind Shinji being a spineless bitch. He may have been the lead character, but its about more than just him. ALL the characters have a significant arc in the original anime, and from what I've heard they fucked with all the ones I really liked. Particularly, Asuka's.

(though I also loved the hell out of the 16'th episode, which addmittedly was Shinji centric. On the other hand, its not going to work out like that in Rebuild, is it.)

3) I don't get why people insist that the ending was a "fuck you" to the fans. What's wrong with a little apocalypse? The real wonder to me is that that ploy never seems to work out-- if its popular enough people will want a sequel, and apparantly if they cannot get one they twist your arm until you write a re-imagining of the original. Sure, it would have been nicer if their buget hadn't been slashed and their show ended prematurely, but you get what you get sometimes.

4) We all know this is just going to turn out to be a post-Instrumentality plot and that its actually going to be a sequel to the original somehow. Its only the most obvious twist ending they could possibly pull out of their ass as evidenced by fanfiction. ( )

But mostly, I've just moved on already. There are other shows, and better too. The only reason I'm still interested in this franchise is because... er... I'm writing fanfiction about it...

[CaptHawkeye]

It's not about him being a "spineless bitch" or whatever people want to call him to feel macho. Shinji is a kid with a fucked up past who is asked to do ridiculous things. Sometimes horrible things to the few people who are at all similar to him. Anybody in his situation would feel like shit all the time. It doesn't help he has no family to speak of so he's the only thing he's got in his life.

[Formless]

Agreed, but I've found that these kinds of arguments tend to go nowhere because at the end of the day the people who make that complaint really just wanted him to be the larger than life hero like Luke Skywalker or whatever becuase its all just escapism and blah blah blah. Its a matter of opinion, and... well hell. I'll let people have their opinions about that kind of thing.

[jollyreaper]

It's not so much that I'd like to see him be an action hero. I'd just like him not to be so... spineless. Shinji never grows as a character. He walks into the show as a whiny bitch and leaves the show as a whiny bitch. Luke may be a Jedi but he's not Neo. Even with his Jedi powers, he's on the human end of the scale. He starts as an impetuous youth and ends as a mature and experienced Jedi at peace with himself and his past.

Now when it comes to fanfiction, it's been years since I've read any but there were some really nice ones that ran with the original premise of the series and went some very interesting places. There was Children of an Elder God that mixed the Angels with the Cthulhu Mythos and a couple of others I don't remember the names of.

I'm curious now to see what the rebuild did to change his character.

[Formless]

No character growth? I'm sorry, but that I do take issue with, as its a simply matter of fact. Shinji starts out as a defiant and whiny guy who hates his father for being distant, and due to the horrific nature of what he is asked to do he developes into a shell of a person with a thousand yard stare. Not positive enough you? It doesn't matter. Its still character growth, by any applicable definition of the concept.