International Revolucion

[spartasman]

So far, there have been violent protests/revolutions all across North Africa, and apparently Albania as well. Does this signal a wave of anti-corruption activism, or is it simply a flare-up of pissed off Proles with no jobs and little food venting their rage? I mean, every year they show crazy kids/muslims burning cars and yelling in the streets in Paris and London, but this current activity seems to be a different beast entirely, and I'm not certain whether to expect a wave of violence and political upheaval, or to see video on the news of cops walking down burning streets shouting "move along, nothing to see here. All is well."

[lazerus]

You could see me, explaining the meaning of the term "Statistical Fluctuation" wherein you are seeing a pattern in the behavior of random data.

[spartasman]

So what your saying is that this is just part of the natural flow of the socio-political... flow?

[Simon_Jester]

Well. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of clustering, with news of one such revolution triggering a few others. Five years ago or so, "color revolutions" were all the rage, for instance. Then that petered out. We may be seeing another cluster, but that doesn't mean a worldwide political realignment- just that a few relatively unstable and corrupt Third World dictatorships get knocked over and replaced by what may well prove to be unstable and corrupt Third World semi-democracies... or, for that matter, new dictatorships.

Some positive change, probably, but not a major shift in and of itself.

[Skgoa]

Well, I think there are several reasons why we have seen so many "revolutions"/mass protests lately.
- The dominant culture on the planet - "the west", even if the term is almost undefinable in itself - has been preaching democracy and resistance to injustice for a while now and there is no counterforce (e.g. fear of communism or capitalism, respectivly) anymore.
- There have been successful revolutions lately. Most uprising are struck down hard, but if we look at history, successful revolts and revolutions have sparked similar uprisings.
- International support for the regimes in those countries is low. With the threat of the domino effect gone, there is not as much of a rationale to prop up juntas and dictatorships, especially since the public in "the west" can't be scared by communism as effectively. Violent protests and mass arrests are ok for enough people in "the west", but opening fire on a crowd of protestors will get everyone's attention very fast.
- Better (mass) communication. The internet can't be censored, there are only very few places left were "dangerous" ideas can't reach or from where reports of abuses can't get out. But this also means that propaganda has become much harder for those governments.

To sum up: people know they live in shitholes, they know thats (at least in part) due to their government and they know they can change this with a reasonable chance of both success and not dying and they know what they have to do. And even if the protests don't spiral into a full on revolution, they stand to gain big concessions.


PS

[K. A. Pital]

So far, there have been violent protests/revolutions all across North Africa, and apparently Albania as well. Does this signal a wave of anti-corruption activism, or is it simply a flare-up of pissed off Proles with no jobs and little food venting their rage?

What a callous person must you be to mention "pissed off proles with no jobs and little food" as something so ordinary. You probably never felt hunger in your life, have you? And I doubt you're living on one, two or ten bucks per day like people in Egypt, Tunisia and Albania do. And I doubt you and all your pals are out of job. Yeah, "a wave of anti-corruption activism" is not the same as "pissed off proles with no jobs and little food". Actually, they are the same. Because corruption includes embezzling funds that should go to the needy. And when the needy don't get something for a long time, they tend to rise up. Might come as news for some.

I mean, every year they show crazy kids/muslims burning cars and yelling in the streets in Paris and London

If you were out of job and dirt-poor, I bet you'd go "crazy" too, asshole.

but this current activity seems to be a different beast entirely, and I'm not certain whether to expect a wave of violence and political upheaval, or to see video on the news of cops walking down burning streets shouting "move along, nothing to see here. All is well."

You're not sure what to expect when corrupt assholes are getting outed? You're not alone. It delights me to a great extent that the current wave of protests took the leaders of Tunisia, Egypt and Albania by surprise, and the student protests in the UK were also a surprise to some liars to an extent. No one knows if the new leaders will be less corrupt (although fear of having yourself whacked is a good motivator). However, one thing I know - no tears for the fucks who ran these nations all these years. And anyone here a witness, I await eagerly for the same to happen in Russia and elsewhere in the post-Soviet space. Let these corrupt thieves tremble. Anti-corruption revolution is good enough a slogan to be upheld by anyone who stands for more than just "hey, let's wait until the NEXT elections, this status quo is so comfy".

[Zaune]

You're not sure what to expect when corrupt assholes are getting outed? You're not alone. It delights me to a great extent that the current wave of protests took the leaders of Tunisia, Egypt and Albania by surprise, and the student protests in the UK were also a surprise to some liars to an extent.

The student protests in the UK don't count. They changed absolutely nothing.

[K. A. Pital]

You're not sure what to expect when corrupt assholes are getting outed? You're not alone. It delights me to a great extent that the current wave of protests took the leaders of Tunisia, Egypt and Albania by surprise, and the student protests in the UK were also a surprise to some liars to an extent.

The student protests in the UK don't count. They changed absolutely nothing.

Sometimes protests count even if they don't bring forth immediate result. What is interesting is the reaction to the protests. I find amusing when there's even a slight hint at confusion in the upper echelons of power. When I see no trace of confusion, I am not happy, because it means the events are not surprising and the government firmly believes to have everything under control - which is more often true than not.

[spartasman]

What a callous person must you be to mention "pissed off proles with no jobs and little food" as something so ordinary. You probably never felt hunger in your life, have you? And I doubt you're living on one, two or ten bucks per day like people in Egypt, Tunisia and Albania do. And I doubt you and all your pals are out of job. Yeah, "a wave of anti-corruption activism" is not the same as "pissed off proles with no jobs and little food". Actually, they are the same. Because corruption includes embezzling funds that should go to the needy. And when the needy don't get something for a long time, they tend to rise up. Might come as news for some.

If you were out of job and dirt-poor, I bet you'd go "crazy" too, asshole.

Well, you are right; I have no idea what it is like to suffer under a corrupt and fraudulent government, nor do I know what it is like to starve or really even go without any necessities. But me being a pampered Western Imperialist isn't really the issue, or at least not the one I intended to raise. I'm not accusatory when talking about these people, in fact I love seeing them oust their tyrants and such, but I wanted to know if this could be a 'wave' of revolts, or something that will, as usual, flare out as soon as someones boot comes down hard.

[Traveller]

What do you mean you have no idea what its like to suffer under a corrupt and fraudulent government? You are american are you not? Being an american, your no doubt generously supplied with industrial pseudo-food...for the time being at least. Over-population, rising food and energy costs and corrupt american backed dictators siphoning the wealth of entire nations will ensure that events like these will become more common in the future, not less so.

[Sarevok]

Wow ? Bitter much ?

The world has been getting better overall as a trend for last 100 years not worse. If you are so sour need I remind you of this classic Cicero quote from 2000 years ago ?

Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book.

LOL.

[Molyneux]

What do you mean you have no idea what its like to suffer under a corrupt and fraudulent government? You are american are you not? Being an american, your no doubt generously supplied with industrial pseudo-food...for the time being at least. Over-population, rising food and energy costs and corrupt american backed dictators siphoning the wealth of entire nations will ensure that events like these will become more common in the future, not less so.

Thank you oh-so-much for your contribution to the thread. A non sequitur America-bashing comment was exactly what it needed, yessiree Bob.

Well, you are right; I have no idea what it is like to suffer under a corrupt and fraudulent government, nor do I know what it is like to starve or really even go without any necessities. But me being a pampered Western Imperialist isn't really the issue, or at least not the one I intended to raise. I'm not accusatory when talking about these people, in fact I love seeing them oust their tyrants and such, but I wanted to know if this could be a 'wave' of revolts, or something that will, as usual, flare out as soon as someones boot comes down hard.

That is a very difficult distinction to make before-the-fact...but hopefully America's lessening support of dictatorial governments might help tip the scales in favor of revolutionaries. Overthrow of a corrupt government might not lead to improvement, but it does at least shake up the status quo and create an opportunity for change.