The Devil

[Tsyroc]

Considering what the Bible says God has done what exactly makes the Devil evil and God good?

It seems to me that God's propaganda has certainly been given some positive spin.

As for the Devil, there really isn't much about him in the Bible. He tricks humans into eating from the tree of knowlege (darn), he helps God screw with Job and some sybolic version of him gets thrown into the entertaining bs that is the book of Revelations.

Who's to say that the Devil isn't the good guy and that humanity lost out when he tried to overthrow the wacked out evil dictator.

Then again maybe he would have been just as bad or worse.

Assuming either of them were real.

[Mr Bean]

See my take on it is good is Stalin, Evil, Commanding, not to bright and happens to like Killing people

Meanwhile the Devil is like Henrich Himmer, He wants everybody dead except those he will experment on


Still when your choice lies between an Evil Dictator and a Saddist Mad Scientist for World Leaders you know somthings up

[Master of Ossus]

If the Devil created DarkStar, as is my belief, then he should be horribly murdered and tortured, his body desecrated, and his immortal life should be destroyed.

[Rhadamanthus]

Reminds me of something I heard on another webboard

I can't help but wonder if the Devil isn't just another god who lost a propaganda war.

Dunno, though in spite of being accused of being the source of all Evil, I can't find any mention in the bible of the Devil committing or ordering acts of genocide and mass destruction, unlike his benevolent and loving counterpart . In fact, worst I remember him being accused of is giving Adam and Eve knowledge of Good and Evil *gasp*

Of course, that all hinges on the idea that God or the Devil actually exist, so its kind of a moot point.

[Darth Yoshi]

Yeah, why is that? What's wrong with knowledge of good and evil? Knowing the difference will help upstanding mortals from committing atrocities. For some reason his Holiness doesn't want that.

[Priesto]

The loss of innocence.Knowing good and evil meant that man now had evil in his thought.He only knew of good before.The thought of killing someone? If God was so wrong, then why is their violence today.Man knows what evil is and how to not commit bad things correct?
Lucifer was an angel in heaven and if God were so evil, we wouldn't even be here.Satan causes man to do bad things for he is the prince and power of the air.

[Darth Yoshi]

What proof do you have that man was good before? What proof do you have that Satan causes men to do bad things?

[Priesto]

What proof do you have that man was good before? What proof do you have that Satan causes men to do bad things?

Satan is the root of all evil.What are you one of those people who think we all have a little evil in us?Why do you think men do bad things?
Man was without sin before he disobeyed God, what more do you need? Adam and Eve were equivalent to Jesus in that they were sinless and were to take the land.Sadly this isn't proof sense faith is an illogical concept, reason being? I have no clue.Do you believe someone who is full of hatred isn't due to satan? dis-obedience,Ungodly hatred, Ungodly Anger, lying, ungodly fear, ungodly judgement(murder) vanity and pride are all of satan.These are the opposite of good things or an extreme of that which is good.

[Kolinar Romanov]

What proof do you have that man was good before? What proof do you have that Satan causes men to do bad things?

Satan is the root of all evil.What are you one of those people who think we all have a little evil in us?Why do you think men do bad things?
Man was without sin before he disobeyed God, what more do you need? Adam and Eve were equivalent to Jesus in that they were sinless and were to take the land.Sadly this isn't proof sense faith is an illogical concept, reason being? I have no clue.Do you believe someone who is full of hatred isn't due to satan? dis-obedience,Ungodly hatred, Ungodly Anger, lying, ungodly fear, ungodly judgement(murder) vanity and pride are all of satan.These are the opposite of good things or an extreme of that which is good.

I disbeieve some of Priesto's agreements to a certain point. I can give all my views, since I prefer not to mention them here ( I have my reasons). rather, I'd advice you to read Golding's "The Lord of the Flies", and Tolkien's "The SIlmarrillion." Both books explored the reasons why there was an evil in men. Perhaps ti's true that great minds think alike, yes ?

But really: I don't believe that men were created completely true. There's a hidden evil in men, just as there's a hidden good. It's complete neutrality, greyness. Now I won't go into a complete fundamentalist, illogical discussion here, but, I believe that should also look at some other perceptions before you say that yours is correct.

[Mr Bean]

Ungodly hatred, Ungodly Anger, lying, ungodly fear, ungodly judgement(murder) vanity and pride are all of satan

Ahh I see so GODLY Hatred(Of non-Chrisitain foke of course, And those Witches and Homosexcals)
GODLY Anger(Towards those already mentioned)

Godly Fear(As opposed to good just Fear in Fearing God)

Godly Jugement(Not doing what God says)


If there is Ungodly hatred there is Godly hatred,

Thus when he mentions

Do you believe someone who is full of hatred isn't due to satan?

Or God?

Check.

[Crown]

I just had to do this....

Satan is the root of all evil.What are you one of those people who think we all have a little evil in us?Why do you think men do bad things?
Man was without sin before he disobeyed God, what more do you need? Adam and Eve were equivalent to Jesus in that they were sinless and were to take the land.Sadly this isn't proof sense faith is an illogical concept, reason being? I have no clue.Do you believe someone who is full of hatred isn't due to satan? dis-obedience,Ungodly hatred, Ungodly Anger, lying, ungodly fear, ungodly judgement(murder) vanity and pride are all of satan.These are the opposite of good things or an extreme of that which is good.

So Adam and Eve, two fun luvin' kids who liked to walk around naked and shag before marriage were without sin? So I can do this too right? You know shag before marriage, hell I can walk around naked as well because that's what God intended for us right?

[Enforcer Talen]

cool side image, crown.

if you believe in christianity, then satan would be the one tempting humans to be unnice to their friends, setting up concentration camps and wars and the like. god destroying the occasional city would be him cleaning up the mess.

and, adam and eve were probably before the concept of marriage - marriage is society accepting two people are now a family, and when your the only two alive, you don't have a society to witness.

course, that could suggest that god changes the rules, which makes sense biblically.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I see priesto has just eaten up "gods" propaganda

Answer this.
If satan just wanted to reform heaven, wouldnt hell be nothing more than a reformed heaven? we have only heard on side of the story why not hear lucifers verson of events?

[Darth Yoshi]

What proof do you have that man was good before? What proof do you have that Satan causes men to do bad things?

Satan is the root of all evil.What are you one of those people who think we all have a little evil in us?Why do you think men do bad things?
Man was without sin before he disobeyed God, what more do you need? Adam and Eve were equivalent to Jesus in that they were sinless and were to take the land.Sadly this isn't proof sense faith is an illogical concept, reason being? I have no clue.Do you believe someone who is full of hatred isn't due to satan? dis-obedience,Ungodly hatred, Ungodly Anger, lying, ungodly fear, ungodly judgement(murder) vanity and pride are all of satan.These are the opposite of good things or an extreme of that which is good.

Root of all evil huh? If I remember correctly, Satan never committed genocide, or encouraged it. When was the last time he killed women and children? That's right, he didn't. Unlike a certain "omnipotent, benevolent" god.

[NecronLord]

What proof do you have that man was good before? What proof do you have that Satan causes men to do bad things?

Satan is the root of all evil.What are you one of those people who think we all have a little evil in us?Why do you think men do bad things?
Man was without sin before he disobeyed God, what more do you need? Adam and Eve were equivalent to Jesus in that they were sinless and were to take the land.Sadly this isn't proof sense faith is an illogical concept, reason being? I have no clue.Do you believe someone who is full of hatred isn't due to satan? dis-obedience,Ungodly hatred, Ungodly Anger, lying, ungodly fear, ungodly judgement(murder) vanity and pride are all of satan.These are the opposite of good things or an extreme of that which is good.

Therefore God is not all-powerful, or good. He is a Facist Dictator

[Mr Bean]

I think I'll try that out next time I vist a church either he's a Fasist Dictator or just an evil one

Comrade God!( ) or if I realy want to get people riled up(Depends on the crowd and level of congnative surrender
Hier God!

[Eleas]

I think I'll try that out next time I vist a church either he's a Fasist Dictator or just an evil one

Comrade God!( ) or if I realy want to get people riled up(Depends on the crowd and level of congnative surrender
Hier God!

"Here, God"? Woah, scathing.

[Mr Bean]

You know better than that Eleas

I'd love to see the Pope give sermon and replace all praise the lords with hail our Lord and Master Comrade God and see how people react

[Eleas]

You know better than that Eleas

Yep.

I'd love to see the Pope give sermon and replace all praise the lords with hail our Lord and Master Comrade God and see how people react

Heh. Personally, I'd love to be a minister. I'd begin spouting the party line, then slowly introduce veiled allusions to sadomachosism (come on, what did you think Jesus really did on that cross?), incest, sodomy, homo- bi- and multisexuality... the possibilities are endless...

[Stravo]

One has to wonder...IF God is all powerful and he loves us without limit, WHY not simply erase the knowdlege from our hearts? Why did he let a STINKING APPLE ruin it for his supposed favorite creation. IS someone SERIOUSLY going to argue that God can't reverse what a fruit did to us???

There is only one answer then and it is rather telling....HE WANTED us to lose our innnocence and become what we are, for better or for worse, God allowed Satan to tempt man and give us the fruit, to say otherwise is to admit that God is NOT all powerful AND allknowing. Either way, we're fucked.

[Zoink]

Considering what the Bible says God has done what exactly makes the Devil evil and God good?

My understanding is that heaven/hell is described in the bible as:

Heaven: with God
Hell: w/o God, a state of death, a state of depravity.

The key thing being that nowhere in the bible (new or old) is Hell described as a place of eternal punishment with the Devil at its lead.

The old testament descibes hell as a place that dead people go (gehenna or hades). Also using it to describe a state of depravity, or a state not pleasing to God, as in "that place is going to hell".

With the new testament, by following Jesus you can leave this "dead" state and be with Jesus and God in heaven. But, No where does he say that failing to do so would lead you to eternal punishment. Nor does it say that being in Hell is an eternal state.

If the devil is simply leading people "away from God" and not into eternal punishment, why is he considered evil?

Why did he let a STINKING APPLE ruin it for his supposed favorite creation. IS someone SERIOUSLY going to argue that God can't reverse what a fruit did to us???

Well, I guess if I take Hell as being a state "away from God". Then not doing what God wants will lead me to such a state. Seems that Adam saw the truth: that God is a tyranical dictator and took steps to distance himself from God (ie. a state of sin, a state further away from God). Thanks Adam and Eve!

[Mr Bean]

Considering I've met nicer Neo-Nazi's, Heaven don't sond like much fun spending time with this All-poweful, genocidial Manic who kills people for everything from calling others bald to insulting your parents...

[Mr. B]

I for one am glad I am going to hell, there isn't any commie/fascist dictator demanding attention at all times from his slaves...er Servants.

In hell I get to sit in front of the fireplace with all those lovely loose women.

[Johonebesus]

A historical note, if anyone cares, and they probably don't, but: Satan was originally the name of a servant of God, whose job it was to tempt humans, to test faith. That's what is going on in Job. Satan, a faithful servant, is giving a report to God. God then names Job as an example of true faith, and sends Satan to do his job and try Job. Lucifer was originally the name of a Babylonian priest. The serpent in Eden was just a serpent, no different than talking animals in many other myths. He had nothing to do with Satan. It wasn't until after the Babylonian Exile that the Jews started to question why their Omnipotent God allowed the nation to be all but destroyed. They evidently liked preferred the Persians' answer to their own prophets' assertion that the Jews were sinful, and so the idea of an enemy of God entered into our tradition, which causes the terrible paradox of an evil being tolerated by an omnipotent and good God, and also partially absolves the sinners.

[Darth Yoshi]

A historical note, if anyone cares, and they probably don't, but: Satan was originally the name of a servant of God, whose job it was to tempt humans, to test faith. That's what is going on in Job. Satan, a faithful servant, is giving a report to God. God then names Job as an example of true faith, and sends Satan to do his job and try Job. Lucifer was originally the name of a Babylonian priest. The serpent in Eden was just a serpent, no different than talking animals in many other myths. He had nothing to do with Satan. It wasn't until after the Babylonian Exile that the Jews started to question why their Omnipotent God allowed the nation to be all but destroyed. They evidently liked preferred the Persians' answer to their own prophets' assertion that the Jews were sinful, and so the idea of an enemy of God entered into our tradition, which causes the terrible paradox of an evil being tolerated by an omnipotent and good God, and also partially absolves the sinners.

The book of Job makes sense now. I always wondered why God would socialize with Satan.