Betelgeuse about to Supernova

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Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Steven Snyder »

According to our friends at news.com.au
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ONE of the biggest stars in our galactic neighbourhood - Betelgeuse - is expected to go supernova "soon".
The infamous red super-giant star in Orion’s nebula - Betelgeuse - is predicted to go gangbusters and the impending super-nova may reach Earth before 2012.

The second biggest star in the Orion constellation is losing mass, a typical indication that a gravitation collapse is occurring.

When that happens, we'll get our second sun, according to Dr Brad Carter, Senior Lecturer of Physics at the University of Southern Queensland.

“This old star is running out of fuel in its centre”, Dr Carter said.

“This fuel keeps Betelgeuse shining and supported. When this fuel runs out the star will literally collapse in upon itself and it will do so very quickly.”

When this happens a giant explosion will occur, tens of millions of times brighter than the sun.

The bad news is, it could also happen in a million years. But who's counting?

The important thing is, one day, night will become day for several weeks on Earth.

“This is the final hurrah for the star,” says Dr Carter.

“It goes bang, it explodes, it lights up - we’ll have incredible brightness for a brief period of time for a couple of weeks and then over the coming months it begins to fade and then eventually it will be very hard to see at all.”

The interwebs is being flooded with doomsday theories saying the impending supernova confirms the Mayan calendar’s prediction of the Armageddon in 2012.

These conspiracies aren’t helped by the word “Betelgeuse” being associated with the devil.

Though it is a derivation of the Arabic phrase “yad Al Jauza” meaning the “hand of Al-Jauza” referring to a mysterious woman that controls the order of the universe, it hasn’t stopped some people from clearing out their bunkers and stocking up on tinned food.

Far from being a sign of the apocalypse, according to Dr Carter the supernova will provide Earth with elements necessary for survival and continuity.

“When a star goes bang, the first we will observe of it is a rain of tiny particles called nuetrinos,” says Dr Carter.

“They will flood through the Earth and bizarrely enough, even though the supernova we see visually will light up the night sky, 99 per cent of the energy in the supernova is released in these particles that will come through our bodies and through the Earth with absolutely no harm whatsoever.”

Stars such as the supernova produce elements that are critical to life on Earth.

Quite literally, the whole of Earth and our solar system is made of star stuff, including most of the heavy elements of the Periodic Table.

“It literally makes things like gold, silver - all the heavy elements - even things like uranium….a star like Betelgeuse is instantly forming for us all sorts of heavy elements and atoms that our own Earth and our own bodies have from long past supernovi,” Dr carter said.

Some experts have speculated Betelgeuse’s explosion may cause a neutron star or result in the formation of a black hole approximately 1300 light years from Earth, but Dr Carter says it could go either way.

“There’s a reasonably even chance of a neutron star or a black hole”, he says.

“If it were me, I’d suspect it would more likely become a black hole at 20 solar masses.”
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Broomstick »

Oh, wow - it would be amazing to see a supernova in the night sky... what a memorable event! Not to mention we'd be in a position to record in all sorts of ways for posterity.

Of course, as pointed out in the article, "soon" could mean a million years from now. It could have happened last Tuesday, but no one on Earth will know for what, 1300 years? If we see it tomorrow it actually happened around 700 AD.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Chaotic Neutral »

That would be pretty interesting, only a few hours of night for two weeks.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Broomstick »

Depends on the season as well, and your latitude. The Orion constellation, and Betelgeuse (it's one of Orion's shoulders), does drop below the horizon at certain seasons for high latitudes. One of the polar regions is going to miss the show if it happens around a solstice.

See picture - arrow shows where Betelgeuse is in relation to the Orion constellation.

Image
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Spectre_nz »

I don't see any new info in that article? Is it just a "stuff we already knew about Betelgeuse" + "Oh hai, 2012! End of teh worldz" type article?

I thought Betelgeuse has been considered "Supernova pending" pretty much since they first pointed a spectrometer at it.
It was presented as such on a PBS "The universe" Docco from a few years back. I often look up at the night sky and wonder if tonights the night the light from the Betelgeuse supernova reaches us. Although maybe we'd get a little warning from some tell-tale emissions in the days before we saw it.

I'd love for it to be in my life time. Alas, it could be a hundred, a thousand or a million years off.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

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Yes, it's been known for a long time that Betelgeuse is unstable and will almost certainly supernova. So it's a bit >yawn< but hey, it could be visible tomorrow....
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by mr friendly guy »

I saw this article on news.com.au and posted a mocking reply in response of those 2012 end of world response plus the fact people were saying we would see it. The star is 600 plus LY away so unless due to technobabble subspace inverse tachyon field blah blah blah, we won't see the light of the explosion in our life time.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Steven Snyder »

?

I admit my amaturish education in astronomy, but...
Couldn't the star have already gone supernova 599 years ago and we just don't know about it yet?
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Broomstick »

Yes, it could have gone nova some centuries ago. But most of the public doesn't quite grasp that what we see when we look up at night is old light and what happened centuries/millennia/millions of years ago.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Chaotic Neutral »

mr friendly guy wrote:The star is 600 plus LY away so unless due to technobabble subspace inverse tachyon field blah blah blah, we won't see the light of the explosion in our life time.
We already seeing it's light from 600 years ago. if it exploded 599 years ago, we would see it next year.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Lagmonster »

It could explode tomorrow, or in ten thousand years - there's a big swath of time involved here. This is one of those news articles that fails to contain any appreciably new news.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by cosmicalstorm »

What a disappointing read. I thought there were some new measurements in line to back it up. I recall reading a identical article as a part of a paper I did in high-school sometime in the mid 90's. I would be baffled if this happened during my lifetime.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Simon_Jester »

Broomstick wrote:Yes, it's been known for a long time that Betelgeuse is unstable and will almost certainly supernova. So it's a bit >yawn< but hey, it could be visible tomorrow....
The trick is that the terminal phases of a star-going-supernova come with associated warning signs. You get a lot of "oh crap she's gonna blow!" signs, or you should expect to at any rate. So "could blow up this millenium" is likely to mean "unless we're totally wrong about astrophysics, some time more than fifty years but less than a thousand... or probably less than a million."

I don't know about the actual degree of "oh crap she's gonna blow!" signs we see from Betelgeuse, but I'm betting we'd see it in the astrophysical journals if things were getting this close, because it would be pretty much the most interesting thing in the universe to them.

And the whole 2012 thing is just utter, utter bullshit. Even if true, the only reason to stick it in there is to get a 2012 reference. Which is bullshit.
Far from being a sign of the apocalypse, according to Dr Carter the supernova will provide Earth with elements necessary for survival and continuity.

“When a star goes bang, the first we will observe of it is a rain of tiny particles called nuetrinos,” says Dr Carter.

“They will flood through the Earth and bizarrely enough, even though the supernova we see visually will light up the night sky, 99 per cent of the energy in the supernova is released in these particles that will come through our bodies and through the Earth with absolutely no harm whatsoever.”
At least they're trying to keep people from assuming supernovae are covered by astrology. Sort of.
cosmicalstorm wrote:What a disappointing read. I thought there were some new measurements in line to back it up. I recall reading a identical article as a part of a paper I did in high-school sometime in the mid 90's. I would be baffled if this happened during my lifetime.
Well, heck. It might happen in the next fifty years; I wouldn't be all that stunned even though it's unlikely.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

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Simon_Jester wrote:I don't know about the actual degree of "oh crap she's gonna blow!" signs we see from Betelgeuse, but I'm betting we'd see it in the astrophysical journals if things were getting this close, because it would be pretty much the most interesting thing in the universe to them.
Based on my understanding of stellar physics, we know it has started burning helium in its core (it is rather obviously off the main sequence, so this is kind of a given). We do not know how long ago it started doing this, except that it's been at it for at least the past several thousand years (to my knowledge, all records of Betelgeuse indicate it as being quite red throughout all of human history). The shells of gas we see were thrown off relatively recently, because they are not far from the star's surface/photosphere (hell, they might even be the star's actual photosphere). So it will definitively go supernova in the next million years. If you could somehow determine that it had started burning carbon and oxygen in its core, you would constrain the timeframe down to at most a few hundred years from now. However, doing so is not possible to my knowledge; although the core does in fact collapse further, and you in principle would be able to see this, the changes should take several hundred to thousand years to really become visible at the very least, meaning that the star explodes before any possible closer warning signs make it to the top. Just for future reference, here are the nuclear burning timescales for a ~20 solar mass star like Betelgeuse:

Hydrogen -> Helium: ~10 million years
Helium -> Carbon, Oxygen: ~1 million years
Carbon, Oxygen -> various; silicon dominates: ~500 years
Nuclear statistical equilibrium for lighter elements (alpha capture by oxygen, neon, magnesium, etc.): ~6 months
Silicon -> Iron, via nuclear statistical equilibrium: ~2 weeks, if that (I've seen estimates go as low as two days)
Iron -> neutrons and supernova: <1 second
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by mr friendly guy »

Chaotic Neutral wrote:
mr friendly guy wrote:The star is 600 plus LY away so unless due to technobabble subspace inverse tachyon field blah blah blah, we won't see the light of the explosion in our life time.
We already seeing it's light from 600 years ago. if it exploded 599 years ago, we would see it next year.
Yes I am aware of that. But then they should have said it exploded x number of years ago, not give the impression it could just be around the corner (implying it hasn't happened yet).
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by mr friendly guy »

news.com.au has posted this sort of retraction
Betelgeuse 'not likely to explode in 2012'

* From: NewsCore
* January 22, 2011


* Cold water poured on twin sun dreams
* Nobody can say for sure, though...
* More like full moon than Tatooine sun

THE super-giant red star Betelgeuse in the constellation of Orion is destined to explode, but maybe not next year as some recent news reports have suggested and will not be as bright as some predicted.

FoxNews.com reported Betelgeuse has already become a red giant, which indicates it will explode and become a supernova.

But experts say it is not likely to happen soon and it will happen far enough away that it will not hurt Earth.

US astronomer Phil Plait noted on his blog that a supernova would have to be no farther than 25 light years away to "fry us with light or anything else and Betelgeuse is 25 times that distance".

The story at http://www.news.com.au predicted that a giant explosion will occur, tens of millions of times brighter than the sun, and suggested the event could happen before 2012.


The story quoted a physics lecturer at the University of Southern Queensland, Brad Carter, who predicted that when Betelgeuse blows, night time will turn to day for several weeks on Earth.

“This is the final hurrah for the star,” Dr Carter told http://www.news.com.au.

“It goes bang, it explodes, it lights up - we’ll have incredible brightness for a brief period of time for a couple of weeks and then over the coming months it begins to fade and then eventually it will be very hard to see at all.”

That story is helping fuel internet rumors and doomsday theories by confounding the impending supernova with the Mayan calendar's conclusion in 2012 - which some believe is a prediction of the end of the world.

But there's no reason to think Betelgeuse will blow in 2012, Mr Plait explained, or even this millennium.

"It's hard to know just when a star will explode when you're on the outside," he said.

"Betelgeuse might go up tonight, or it might not be for 100,000 years. We're just not sure."

Dr Carter followed up his comments today, saying he knew of no scientific basis to suggest the star would go supernova in time to satisfy doomsday followers' predictions.

He instead pointed to a New Scientist article that quoted Nobel prize winner Charles Townes as saying there was no way of knowing how red giants behave at the end of their life cycle.

He said that while it will shine with "incredible brightness" it would be more like a full moon, rather than Tatooine's second sun.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Vendetta »

mr friendly guy wrote:Yes I am aware of that. But then they should have said it exploded x number of years ago, not give the impression it could just be around the corner (implying it hasn't happened yet).
Of course there's no way to know that it has already exploded until the first product of the nova actually reaches us, so it might have exploded at any point in the last six hundred years and we literally could not possibly know that yet.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Simon_Jester »

Well, the catch is (again) that a star about to go supernova would go through other, earlier stages that we'd see the warning signs of. I don't think it would just be a case of "one minute everything was fine and then BAM." If the light from the explosion were going to hit us tomorrow, the light from the "It's gonna blow!" danger signs would have hit us like ten years ago.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

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Simon_Jester wrote:Well, the catch is (again) that a star about to go supernova would go through other, earlier stages that we'd see the warning signs of. I don't think it would just be a case of "one minute everything was fine and then BAM." If the light from the explosion were going to hit us tomorrow, the light from the "It's gonna blow!" danger signs would have hit us like ten years ago.
I take it you didn't read my post, did you? :P There aren't any visible ones, because the nuclear burning timescales become way too short, so the changes, which mostly propagate through radiative transfer, don't have time to make it to the surface, where they would be visible. So yeah, usually the first warning you would get is a stream of neutrinos followed a few seconds later by the light from the explosion.

Edited for punctuation.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Simon_Jester »

I'm sorry, I got muddled.

All right, fair enough, though I really am a bit surprised at the proposition in question. It would be interesting to see the data on this from a star we'd been monitoring closely pre-supernova, but obviously that hasn't happened to date.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Iroscato »

What a privelage it would be to be able to witness an event like this in the sky.
I believe the last supernova witnessed by humans was in the 11th century, is that right? Bet it messed them up a bit :D
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Zaune »

The last supernova visible to the naked eye might have been, but supposedly they're a pretty regular occurrence; it's only in the last two decades or so that digital camera technology has allowed us to spot them with relative ease.

And Betelgeuse does definitely lack any planets in the Goldilocks Zone, right?
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

If it had any planets in the habitable zone whilst on the main sequence, they would have been burnt to a cinder when it became a supergiant.

And AFAIK Betelgeuse wouldn't have had a stable zone anyway as it's the wrong kind of star, it's a blue star (type O IIRC) and is/was too hot now/back then.
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Duckie »

Betelgeuse is a type M red supergiant. In fact, it's the red supergiant, widely known to ancient astronomers as "the red star" because it's visible as red to the naked eye on a good night apparantly. (Just like Mars, though I've never personally seen either of them looking particularly reddish)
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Re: Betelgeuse about to Supernova

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

You need to find darker skies then. I'm half blind and I can tell it's red on a clear night in the Brecon Beacons.

But like you I've never seen Mars being red. But I haven't seen Mars since starting my Astronomy degree so I haven't seen it through a scope yet.
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