Grimnosh wrote:Hmmmm sending in Imperial marines against an Inquisitor's group who are most likely expecting an attack. This is going to get intreasting (as well as bloody) as the Imperium's standard ground forces are better then the Imperial ground forces, especially considering that a Rogue Trader's crew (and thier lack of training and gear compared to the Imperial Guard, let alone the Adeptus Astaries) put a garrison force through the wringer. Add in that while an Inquisitor's retinue tends to be formed more from individuals they have recruited along thier travels rather then full troop units, they are almost always the best at what they do from whichever specialization the Inquisitor deemed nessary (or useful) at that time.
Those marines are going to have thier hands full at best. Provided that they have hands left after exchanging cultural greetings anyway.
Depends, it just depends on the fact if the Dark-Trooper project is still around.
The factory was housed on a ship that Kyle Katarn destroyed after finding.
Grimnosh, I think Amberley just has her personal retinue, and they're facing stormtoopers, not army, who presumably have also been briefed on the boarding actions on the Imperium wrecks. And her retinue is only human (albeit probably very good), not Deathwatch. Lucre Foedus dropped off her yacht and ran back through the wormhole during the battle, so no help there. Does she have her power armor with her?
Basically, the retinue consists of at least Amberley herself, Pelton (ex- Arbites undercover operative and the only one who seems likely to be of Interrogator status), Yanbel (techpriest, presumably with a few combat adaptations here and there) Mott (savant, probably Mechanicus also), Rakhel (sanctioned psyker of dubious sanity and use in a fight), Pontius (ex-Imperial navy fighter pilot), Zemelda (ex street vendor, don't ask), Mydelin (navigator) and a few other bodies from the crew of the Externus Exterminatus, but not many, and she does have her armour with her which might make sneaking around impressively difficult, but the bolter could come in handy.
Oh, and possibly a stray Imperial Starfleet engineer.
There were never enough Dark Troopers produced to actually matter, it was always a mad Moff and a demented general's pet project; they'd fit perfectly into some of the more mocking and less optimistic takes on 40K, as they use loadouts and tactics essentially made obsolete by gunpowder. Realistically, they should have been a bad joke. (seriously; Cyborg Samurai Stormtroopers? Who are they kidding?)
What Kaine actually asked for was a few platoons of raider-scouts off the frigates protecting the station, so they should be fairly good.
On the other hand, Rakel is trying to get the rest of the survivors of the Battle of the Rishi Mouth to home on her broadcast- this, incidentally, is why no following of the adventures of the crew of the Sinus Iridium or anything like that; time and speed. They haven't had a chance to get anywhere yet- might, soon.
Eleventh Century Remnant wrote:Basically, the retinue consists of at least Amberley herself, Pelton (ex- Arbites undercover operative and the only one who seems likely to be of Interrogator status), Yanbel (techpriest, presumably with a few combat adaptations here and there) Mott (savant, probably Mechanicus also), Rakhel (sanctioned psyker of dubious sanity and use in a fight), Pontius (ex-Imperial navy fighter pilot), Zemelda (ex street vendor, don't ask), Mydelin (navigator) and a few other bodies from the crew of the Externus Exterminatus, but not many, and she does have her armour with her which might make sneaking around impressively difficult, but the bolter could come in handy.
Oh, and possibly a stray Imperial Starfleet engineer.
It would be utterly hilarious if he winds up getting swept up into the retinue.
Not saying it would be plausible, or even writable, but it would be hilarious. The byplay between him and the Mechanicus types alone...
There were never enough Dark Troopers produced to actually matter, it was always a mad Moff and a demented general's pet project; they'd fit perfectly into some of the more mocking and less optimistic takes on 40K, as they use loadouts and tactics essentially made obsolete by gunpowder. Realistically, they should have been a bad joke. (seriously; Cyborg Samurai Stormtroopers? Who are they kidding?)
The Phase I types, described as sword-and-shield, absolutely, but is that really true of the Phase II? My impression is that the Phase I's were a testbed, not really meant for combat effectiveness.
Yeah, I always got the impression that the Phase 1 was either a test type or discontinued prototype that had a few left and Mott just pressed them into service as part of his guard force.
The Mark III Dark Trooper was 'the final model', as in what Mott was looking for.
And after the reports of what the Space Marines did to the Stormtroopers gets back to Courscant, I can honestly see Palpatine snapping his fingers and taking the project from a 'black' R&D project to a full scale military production project and starting a crash program to reequip his core Stormtrooper legions with Mark III armor as a counter.
I doubt it. As soon as he gets some semi-accurate intelligence on how many of them the Imperium has, I suspect he'll be less worried. He has far more stormtroopers than the Imperium has Marines.
Hmmm. Missed the last bit with Amberly, had to go back and reread it. Overall, there's a lot here that's going to go ploin-shaped very quickly. More fun for us, less for them.
Commander of the MFS Darwinian Selection Method (sexual)
Yes, I know; away for a long time...I really was quite badly blocked over this, and strangely enough what seems to have shaken that loose was a funeral, a wake and the subsequent case of alcohol poisoning.
This still isn't a very grand update, there is a lot more in manuscript and some of it typed up, but I was actually thinking chuck it and start again, and this is the first of that approach. it is a bit silly. First fragment of the chapter, really.
Squelch- 24
Brother-Sargeant Andraste was not really a stupid being; it was hard to be genuinely devoid of intelligence and still do what he was pledged and sworn, and had been remade more than human, to do.
He didn't particularly enjoy thinking, but that was nothing greatly out of the ordinary in the 41st Millennium, where most of the interesting thoughts had already been thought, and a high proportion of them declared heretical.
Information, on the other hand, facts that usefully connected to the real world and that actions could be based on, that could be strung together into a situation or an objective, those he was actually quite fond of.
Right now, today, he was trying to turn a confused blur of don't really know what's going on into sensible facts that could be sensibly acted on, and, perhaps forgivably under the circumstances, struggling. Anyone with more creative imagination would have grasped that there was no point looking for that kind of sense at this moment.
Then again, if he had that kind of lateral thinking ability he would never have been seconded to the Deathwatch. He only grasped that he and the team had talked their way into being used as suicide decoys the second after the pod hatch shut and the launch thrusters fired.
Not a particularly good moment for a revelation; as the point defence turrets around the upper superstructure started to react, it occurred to him further that they were very small, and it was very well armed.
That seemed to be a fact. He iaijutsu- drew his powersword and cut a wide circle, slicing the nose off the pod; as it started to tumble, he ordered the two brothers with him to jump, and did so himself.
They were right behind him, but as the pod was shredded by laser and ion fire, brother Caralus took a direct hit from a fighter-class ion cannon and went limp. Marines took a lot of stunning, but that would do.
The second pod took a direct hit and blew up outright; three vapourised Brothers to avenge, and on whom, the xenos and daemons here or that bastard enginseer?
The third pod was clipped by ion fire, tumbled and hit one of the galleries in the lower superstructure, but at least it came in in one piece.
They were kitted out as an assault squad, which was what had inspired Andraste's decision to jump for it- they had flight packs. His pack's machine spirit hesitated for a moment- he nearly cursed it but forced himself to have patience, which is just as well as it was switching from air breathing to pure rocket mode.
It would have been completely bloody useless if he wasn't already within the field of influence of the ship, being able to lift his own weight and that of another marine only against terran gravity, and it was just as well for his peace of mind he didn't know that.
What he actually did was a mixture of jetting and scrambling in the direction of the crashed pod 3, dragging the unconscious, twitching body of brother Caralus behind him.
Partly out of sheer surprise, Andraste made it, but brother Mukhali behind him found a point defence turret right in his path, and chose to go through rather than round it. It was more surprised than he was, but it had bigger guns.
It was also outside the ship's main armour belt, with only flash and splinter protection, and he was within the shielding, so- he blasted at it with bolter fire, little mass reactive adamantine tipped darts raking the metal lump in front of him and battering against it, trying to find the eyes and brains of the alien killer mechanism;
It shot back at him with quad lasers- the bolts blew through him and shredded him, even as one of his bolts split and exploded a capacitor bank.
Another good brother gone, Andraste thought savagely as he moved to join his surviving comrades- and it was at that point he realised he and his team had been doubly hosed by the alien engineer, who had neglected to provide him with anything resembling a map.
His memory was good, but not quite photographic; the glimpse of the holo-layout, the general shape and location, yes, but...as he touched down and was relieved to see the four from pod 3 alive and intact, brother Quattam asked him 'Where do we go?'
He gave the only answer that came to mind. 'Into the fire. They will attack us; we will beat them back and follow them up, and head in the direction of the strongest resistance until we run out of xenos to fight.' And by that point, if they got that far, they would be down to fists, feet and gunbutts, that was a fact too; couldn't be helped. 'For the Emperor!'
The Lions of Caledon, on the other hand, had a map- and a plan. They had been shot in under cover of blast-flares and counterbattery fire, they had all made it, and they had rather a lot of pointy things which were well suited to corridor fighting.
'If ah read this right, we're being pointit' at the power plant, which is actually separaate frae' their engines- an' nae jokes aboot Catachans thank ye very much.
Tae be precise, the templum that controls yon plant, which actually seems tae be yon' big roond thing we saw stickin' oot o' the ship on the way in. The plant, no' the templum. Mind you, that size, it cannae' be a' that hard tae' find. Col, Liam, wi' me, Jeck, Rab, rearguard.' Sargeant Fergus ordered.
They, and he, were the half of the unit- in most chapters they would have been an assault, in the Lions of Caledon they were a Highland squad- with power targes and basket hilted single- handed powerswords, the other half wielded great two- handed power claymores.
The Lions were not some half- resourced, logistically dependent two bolters and a hungry weasel starveling chapter like some they could name, they were based in what in almost all practical terms but governance was a forge world, and they didn't at all mind showing it off.
All of them were also armed with a full size bolter of a mark which, if it was actually in the codex as they sometimes bothered to claim, was obviously buried very deeply in some highly obscure subclauses- long accelerator barrel, trigger assembly ahead of the magazine.
Could mount an electrobayonet, but with an Astartes- sized power claymore for an alternative, why? Andra', Callum, Lewis, Davie and Mitch were the swing team, ready to give fire with the bolter or charge into close combat to support their brothers with the greatsword.
'Ah wish we'd been able tae bring Lachlan along, he's the navy type, kens mair aboot ships.' Lewis pointed out.
'Naw. He'd want tae bring his gun, and just naw.' Davie said.
'Well, if ye haave some kind'o objectification to the xenotech-' Callum waved a hand- the one holding the claymore, fortunately not switched on- around meaning the ship.
'If ainly he'd stoap there. It's when he tries tae' improve oan it that, aye, weel, ye wurnae' there when he tried oot ra' califoarnium shuriken.' Davie brought up a famous incident in recent chapter history, the Molten Hills of Morea Galea IV.
They sorted themselves out, Fergus stepped off then realised the rest of them were still standing there. 'A'right, whit is it noo?'
'Whit about ra music?' Col- brother colin- asked him. 'Ye did say-'
Fergus remembered that he had, indeed, said. 'Aye, but ah thocht it wid' be a full dress assault wi' a live piper, an' ye ken it's just no' the same canned; if we cannae' dae' it properly-'
'Ah've brocht mine wi' me.' Lewis admitted.
'You cannae' play fur toffee, they threw ye oot' o the company band- twice.' Fergus yelled at him.
'Ach, a minor deeference o' opinion o'er transposition an' the tonal range o' the Astaartes ear, naethin' more.' Lewis said, letting go of the bolter- it hung on it's sling- and pulling something that had probably once been a stomach chamber from a Fenris sea dragon and a set of bone pipes probably from the same source out of his backpack.
Fergus looked at his squad, and thought about it. If he told Lewis to put those bits and bobs away and march, they would, of course, but they would grumble and mutter and generally make it clear they thought he had made the wrong decision.
In the interests of morale, then 'Fine, but ah call the tune, richt? Ye dae ken the Black Bear?'
The only purpose in my still being here is the stories and the people who come to read them. About all else, I no longer care.
Eleventh Century Remnant wrote:He gave the only answer that came to mind. 'Into the fire. They will attack us; we will beat them back and follow them up, and head in the direction of the strongest resistance until we run out of xenos to fight.' And by that point, if they got that far, they would be down to fists, feet and gunbutts, that was a fact too; couldn't be helped. 'For the Emperor!'
It's good to see the Marine perspective on this sort of sententious-militant stuff, that yes, due to a combination of indoctrination and underlying "we always go in" mindset that'd probably be there even without the indoctrination, they simply do not perceive any option but to go in fighting and go down fighting.
Also, I like that we finally see the Marines in action- really in action, rather than getting tied in knots by tractor beams or going one on one with a daemon while the mere-humans at their side perform almost as well. This is what they're made for, not for standing around making uncomplimentary remarks about the Inquisition. And it's starting to show even before the first kills.
'If ainly he'd stoap there. It's when he tries tae' improve oan it that, aye, weel, ye wurnae' there when he tried oot ra' califoarnium shuriken.' Davie brought up a famous incident in recent chapter history, the Molten Hills of Morea Galea IV.
Ah, yes, the infamous californium bullet. From a bolter-caliber round you might actually get an interesting subnuclear bang; I read about that idea in On Thermonuclear War. I feel sorry for that poor gun, though; it must have gotten the crap irradiated out of it from having the magazine inside it.
And then of course there's the bagpipes. Oh, merciful Emperor, the bagpipes!
[pictures everything from orks to Noise Marines fleeing in terror]
Bagpipes are a beautiful instrument Simon and for your blasphemy I decree that bagpipes are the Hiigaran national instument and shall always be played to greet foriegn dignitaries.
As for the story I really enjoyed the Deathwatch, its nice to see guys that aren't to bright. Its a good reminder that we are in 40K universe, as it seems like the average intelligence in this fic is rather to high for 40K. Looking forward to the next installment.
Also my condolences on your loss.
(Posted from my Android, blame it for spelling errors)
"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldier will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"
LT. GEN. LEWIS "CHESTY" PULLER, USMC
Kartr_Kana wrote:Bagpipes are a beautiful instrument Simon and for your blasphemy I decree that bagpipes are the Hiigaran national instument and shall always be played to greet foriegn dignitaries.
To be quite honest, I've got nothing against bagpipes, and I'm rather fond of some of the bagpipe pieces I've heard. I just feel that a certain amount of humorous moaning and groaning about them is expected for a non-Scot such as myself. It seems to make the bagpipers feel appreciated, in a perverse sense.
As for the story I really enjoyed the Deathwatch, its nice to see guys that aren't to bright. Its a good reminder that we are in 40K universe, as it seems like the average intelligence in this fic is rather to high for 40K. Looking forward to the next installment.
Well, the Deathwatch aren't stupid, they're unimaginative. Intelligence is encouraged in 40k, but only along certain specific channels- social criticism and outside-the-box thinking are not among those channels, because thinking outside the box tends to land you in gribblyspace.
My take on the Deathwatch is that they're so extensively conditioned (and chosen for a certain mindset) that they become the very model of a "good Imperial thinker." All about close-up analysis of the situation, very little ability to take a step back from the immediacy of things, all tactics, no strategy.
And yet there have to be people somewhere in the Imperium who can think strategically in a crisis; the Imperium simply doesn't have sufficiently overwhelming might to be able to brute-force its way through all its problems. We often see this in the novels when the characters are publically saying "no one can understand Chaos, they don't think logically, it's not worth trying..." while at the same time are privately examining the situation and trying to figure out what the hell is going on so that they can pre-empt disaster.
It's just that the people who can think are intimidated into speaking the party line by those who don't: for whom the propaganda about keeping a closed mind has sunk in to the point where they start to believe it. To function as an Imperial citizen, or even as a human being, when in the face of adversity in 40k, you really do need a sort of internal censor. One that kicks in whenever certain ideas are bounced about.
But for certain Imperials (Sisters of Battle and Inquisitors being among the chief offenders, especially in this fic), that internal censor winds up colonizing and replacing their brain. They may or may not be stupid... but they don't really think like human beings as we understand them today.
Well to me, that sort of dogmatism and limited range of thinking equals stupidity, not due to lack of intellectual capability, but through the shackling of ability. The Lions of Caledon on the other hand seem to pay only lip service to the dogmatism and prefer to think for themselves and use common sense. We've been seeing much more of them, Cain who exhibits similar traits and Lennart who is... Lennart. All the common sense and uncommon-sense(in the case of Lennart) is a stark contrast to normal 40K. My point was, having some dialog and thought processes of a dogmatic and narrow-minded Deathwatch helps ground us and remind us that we are in the Grimdark future of 40K.
"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldier will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"
LT. GEN. LEWIS "CHESTY" PULLER, USMC
Though, once again, I do think that the Imperium is a bit less brain-dead in the high echelons than it's sometimes implied to be, aside from the dedicated "extra-double-plus super fanatic" groups. They're the ones you point at particularly difficult subversive threats because their loyalty is unquestionable: betrayal isn't merely unthinkable to them, it's literally unthought.
And since even the extra-double-plus super fanatics are (usually) quite capable of reacting intelligently to a situation within the limits of their conditioning, I hesitate to call them stupid. But then, I hesitate to call a lot of people stupid, so that doesn't prove much.
Eleventh Century Remnant wrote:All of them were also armed with a full size bolter of a mark which, if it was actually in the codex as they sometimes bothered to claim, was obviously buried very deeply in some highly obscure subclauses- long accelerator barrel, trigger assembly ahead of the magazine.
I have actually seen some official art work of a combiplas that is in this sort of bullpup arraignment. This is from the Dark Angels codex, and it rather fits that one of the shooty-er marrine sub types should have such.
the engines cannae take any more cap'n
warp 9 to shroomland ~Dalton
There's an annual competition, the local heat of the world bagpipe championship, held not far from me, and I always take good care not to be anywhere nearby in the morning; even for a Scot, while listening to the pipes play may well be a fine and blood-stirring thing, listening to them tune up is more like bloody awful. The ears boggle, imagining what can be done with the physique of an Astartes squeezing the bag. Of course, they are a weapon of war; poor, poor Slaaneshi Noise Marines...
Oh, and this is Sargeant- Commander Lachlan's appropriated shuriken cannon they're talking about; considering how the feed system for that thing is actually supposed to work, the ammo rod would have to be a very precisely measured layer-cake of lead, graphite and fissile to stop the damn' thing going critical in the chamber. Evidently it worked- once, before he was told to never ever do it again on pain of having the ammo rod fed to him.
Simon, that is actully a pretty good take on the problem; and at the same time I find myself wondering just what the straightforward, no-grimdark-required effects of a civilisation ten thousand years old would actually be, on the individuals within it?
Would there actually be something like a steady state- would there be people who were psychically crushed by the past, by the peer pressure of the dead? Even if we're not necessarily talking about a universe full of monsters, a universe full of cultural memories and significances, with nothing and nowhere left to make your mark and an answer for every question you can possibly ask, would there be a lack of will, a lack of intellect? A collossal inertia, tending towards doing things that have always been done?
The very grimdarkness of the Imperium might be all that keeps it from resembling an entire galaxy of daytime TV. I'm not sure myself, but no doubt there are people out there who would reckon that was actually worse.
Anyway, yes, narrow tactical focus, even the Astartes are probably a little pressured by the sheer scale of the task at hand, the pressure of expectation lies strongly on them, and I've never been an enormous fan of the Deathwatch anyway, they always had a shade of the Royal Corps of Tree Climbers about them. I think I'll be trying for shorter posts more frequently on this one.
Eleventh Century Remnant wrote:Oh, and this is Sargeant- Commander Lachlan's appropriated shuriken cannon they're talking about; considering how the feed system for that thing is actually supposed to work, the ammo rod would have to be a very precisely measured layer-cake of lead, graphite and fissile to stop the damn' thing going critical in the chamber. Evidently it worked- once, before he was told to never ever do it again on pain of having the ammo rod fed to him.
True, the californium bullet idea is even worse in that context. But I'm more than a little impressed he figured out how to do it without neutron-ing the chamber to pieces and ruining the materials that went into the weapon.
Simon, that is actully a pretty good take on the problem; and at the same time I find myself wondering just what the straightforward, no-grimdark-required effects of a civilisation ten thousand years old would actually be, on the individuals within it?
Would there actually be something like a steady state- would there be people who were psychically crushed by the past, by the peer pressure of the dead? Even if we're not necessarily talking about a universe full of monsters, a universe full of cultural memories and significances, with nothing and nowhere left to make your mark and an answer for every question you can possibly ask, would there be a lack of will, a lack of intellect? A collossal inertia, tending towards doing things that have always been done?
Very likely, yes; we can speculate on this in cultures like ancient Egypt- or, hell, even medieval Europe, where things did change but not fast enough that a man would notice the world becoming a different place during his own lifetime.
But I think the inertia would tend to quash innovation more than it would quash strategic insight. Some of the Imperium's weirder factions go beyond that, into territory that makes them little more prudent than the orks and Khornates they tend to fight. That is beyond what you'd expect to see purely from the conservatism of a ten thousand year civilization.
The very grimdarkness of the Imperium might be all that keeps it from resembling an entire galaxy of daytime TV. I'm not sure myself, but no doubt there are people out there who would reckon that was actually worse.
Simon_Jester wrote:My take on the Deathwatch is that they're so extensively conditioned (and chosen for a certain mindset) that they become the very model of a "good Imperial thinker." All about close-up analysis of the situation, very little ability to take a step back from the immediacy of things, all tactics, no strategy.
Actually, going from the Deathwatch RPG, they're not. It looks like almost all of the conditioning comes from their original Chapter, with the Deathwatch just training them in the lore of the Deathwatch and that of the aliens they fight. Additionally, the Deathwatch as an organisation do indeed think strategically, though individual Battle Brothers may not; they're basically the lonely sentinels that keep watch and keep fighting even after everyone else is dead or fallen. They store artefacts in secret vaults, they maintain sentinel outposts, they keep ancient records, et cetera. They're called the DeathWATCH for a reason, you know.
Grimnosh wrote:Hmmmm sending in Imperial marines against an Inquisitor's group who are most likely expecting an attack. This is going to get intreasting (as well as bloody) as the Imperium's standard ground forces are better then the Imperial ground forces, especially considering that a Rogue Trader's crew (and thier lack of training and gear compared to the Imperial Guard, let alone the Adeptus Astaries) put a garrison force through the wringer. Add in that while an Inquisitor's retinue tends to be formed more from individuals they have recruited along thier travels rather then full troop units, they are almost always the best at what they do from whichever specialization the Inquisitor deemed nessary (or useful) at that time.
Those marines are going to have thier hands full at best. Provided that they have hands left after exchanging cultural greetings anyway.
Depends, it just depends on the fact if the Dark-Trooper project is still around.
The factory was housed on a ship that Kyle Katarn destroyed after finding.
Been busy a bit lately.
Anyway you're not looking at it quite right.
The Star Wars universe does not have teleporter technology availible to it, so this means the marines/stormtroopers will have to assault the Inquisitor and company through the open corridors and doorways. Adding to the fun is that when Amberly asked about the meltabombs the ones who were not carrying the explosives would do thier best to prepare for any attack by taking up any and all cover availible toward the doors (as they should know what they are doing). Tossing in a bit to spice things up is the fact that the Grand Moff wants the equipment in that room intact... so the assaulting troops cannot use anything that could damage it which in turn means no room clearing weapons (from missle launchers to flamers) or devices that go boom (thermal detonators). Heck even blasters set for full autofire could be bad, but I doubt that the Grand Moff could convince his troops to go charging into a corridor with ready and waiting enemies armed with lasguns to bolters to whatever heavy weapons they may have with nothing but batons to swing at them. Vader or the Emperor possibly (who would also be leading the charge), but not a mere Grand Moff.
This means (in short) an assault against a prepared enemy with nothing more then limited standard trooper weapons (blasters and blaster pistols only, no grenades) with no cover for the advance while the retinue is in cover firing away at them with no restrictions on what to use. This is nothing more then a bloodbath for the attackers who's only advantages are that there is medical support nearby, sheer numbers, and Amberly's retinue has limited ammunition.... while Amberly's retinue are in cover, can use any area based clearing weapons they may have (full autofire, flamers, and grenades, especially incinderary grenades would be hell to try and wade through) and who are also likely better in melee as well when/if the Troopers get that close.
One might think to try and use the enviormental controls (if possible anyway) to disable Amberly and her retinue with gas, but the 40K universe tends to be fairly nasty and most of the experienced people (as well as any heavily augmaticed techpriest) about will usually have some form of enviormental protection availibe from simple rebreathers and airtanks (at least small ones) to filter implants.
You know, its remarkably easy to feed an undead army if all you have are just enemies....
Grmnosh flamers would work just fine, obscure vision, burn exposed flesh etc. You just have to keep them turned down to the point where they wont melt the metal and plasteel in the room.
Glop grenades, stun grenades, flash bangs, maybe even cry grenades would all work just fine. Stunning, sticking, blinding and freezing Amberlys retinue while leaving the equipment intact. The possible exception is cryo grenades since they can get the temp so cold as to damage sensitive electronics. Lets not forget the option of gassing them through the vents or maybe slicing the grav generators and raising the gravity in there so that everyone is pinned to the floor.
Just remember "when in doubt, Flash out!"
"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldier will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"
LT. GEN. LEWIS "CHESTY" PULLER, USMC
He mentioned several of those options, Kartr. The basic problem is that Amberley's retinue are well prepared for intense combat, and are used to fighting in an environment where people may be exposed to very dangerous 'stun' attacks... or really fucking horrific NBC threats. Imagine going after the stronghold of a Nurglite cult, for instance.
So a lot of tricks won't work, or won't work as well, in this environment. And the kind of well-trained units (like stormtroopers) who would normally have those weapons available aren't necessarily hanging around the facility, either.
Well my main point was he discounted grenades and flamers out of hand. Not every grenade is something that goes "boom" and throws shrapnel and intense amounts of heat everywhere. Nor are flamers completely useless, in fact for the initial breach they would probably be better than blasters since, unlike blasters which leave small craters in everything when you spray cover fire, flamers just wash over everything burning exposed flesh and other flammables. True if you get the flamer hot enough you could melt consoles and controls, but if you keep the heat turned down below that point and don't hold it on a console for a prolonged period of time that shouldn't happen.
When breaching, the area right inside the door/window/hole is the kill zone, if you can get through that point your odds of survival go way up. A distraction, something that blinds the defenders or keeps their heads down for a moment is more useful than something that would kill/destroy everything in the room. A glop grenade, flash bang or flamer works well for this purpose. Once you get into the room you force them to split their fire between you and the entry point. The more people you can get into the room, the more targets they have to shoot at and your survivability goes up.
What I'm trying to say is that yes Amberly and her squad can and will inflict horrific losses on anyone trying to breach the room. The room is going to get shot up regardless of the Grand Moffs wishes simply from stray bolter and blaster rounds. However the GE has more options than just waves of blaster armed redshirts, er stormtroopers.
Yes WH40K people are some of the best prepared and meanest combatants in sci-fi, no gassing them probably wont work, but what about the gravity? How many gravities does it take before their power armor can't compensate? What happens if you vent the atmo? Do their suits have internal air supplies? If so how long do they last?
All of this is pretty much moot though since Amberly and her retinue aren't going to be killed, I doubt they'll even get attacked. Killing Amberly at this point makes no sense after her surviving for so long. She has some role to play and I'm guessing that role is to be WH40Ks Lennart. The ambassador, the point of contact and the head of the IoM in the GE.
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Kartr_Kana wrote:Well my main point was he discounted grenades and flamers out of hand. Not every grenade is something that goes "boom" and throws shrapnel and intense amounts of heat everywhere. Nor are flamers completely useless, in fact for the initial breach they would probably be better than blasters since, unlike blasters which leave small craters in everything when you spray cover fire, flamers just wash over everything burning exposed flesh and other flammables. True if you get the flamer hot enough you could melt consoles and controls, but if you keep the heat turned down below that point and don't hold it on a console for a prolonged period of time that shouldn't happen.
Unless you have a fairly specialized 'hot steam gun' type of flamethrower, it will be difficult to rely on being able to inflict incapacitating burns on the guys inside the room without damaging the equipment.
Unless the stuff was specifically designed to resist, say, being rinsed in boiling water (and many electronic systems aren't), there is no guarantee that it will survive. Sure, the structure of the consoles won't physically melt, but you've got a fairly narrow temperature range where the flamethrower is an effective weapon while not being hot enough to damage the hardware.
The doctrinal goal of totally suppressing the enemy as you go through the door, using area-effect weapons, yes, absolutely sound. Whether this can be implemented in practice, in this case, with the men and weapons available, against this opposition... much trickier. Especially if there aren't any well-trained and properly equipped assault specialists handy, and there may not be; I don't remember if there are any stormtroopers in the base at the moment, and so far I haven't been impressed with the quality of Star Wars naval infantry and base security-type troops.
Remember the caliber of men who boarded Amberley's yacht? Imagine them trying to handle the assault.
Yes WH40K people are some of the best prepared and meanest combatants in sci-fi, no gassing them probably wont work, but what about the gravity? How many gravities does it take before their power armor can't compensate? What happens if you vent the atmo? Do their suits have internal air supplies? If so how long do they last?
It's a possibility- but again, can the equipment in the room survive five g? I don't know about you, but I've put together a number of equipment racks that would react badly to having the gravity increase by a factor of five. Or that aren't vacuum-rated: not all computers (far from all computers) can function in the absence of an atmosphere.
And on a ship not run by some professional paranoiac tinkerer like Mirannon, it's questionable whether the environmental system will even be configured to do this kind of thing quickly. This isn't a starship that needs strong, variable-intensity artificial gravity just to keep everyone from being smeared against the aft bulkheads.
Commander of the MFS Darwinian Selection Method (sexual)
