SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

[PeZook]

I don't see why not. Any nation could claim new territorry, it's up to their neighbors to challenge that claim.

[Simon_Jester]

Getting the economic benefits of a newly claimed colony would be a fairly slow process, but claiming new systems isn't at all unreasonable. We've already seen that sort of expansionism from a number of powers, with varying results (on the one hand, the Bragulans in the region between them and the Refuge; on the other, the Prussians at Volksland).

When talking of far-flung protectorate 'empires,' I think that like the historical British empire, it might be best to consider them a wash in net economic terms, at best: the profits you gain from the empire are roughly offset by the costs of maintaining it, to the point where it doesn't really gain you anything. The same might go for attempts to pacify new colony sectors.

Control of economically valuable systems is likely to be more profitable, and is totally an option... but if you start pushing into economically valuable systems it provokes conflict with the neighbors. Then again, that's a good thing for gameplay- we want reasons for players to interact with each other.

[Tanasinn]

Considering the Humanist Union is supposed to have a strong expansionist itch, any rulings concerning expanding to new sectors and what that entails interest me. I imagine it will be a fairly slow process, yes - at some point I'll get around to what a pain in the ass liberating New Haven and the New Haven sector has been for the government outside of the almost-nonexistent military conflict.

I imagine if you're willing to be ruthless and exploitative, you can start getting profit earlier from colony regions, but they're going to produce less due to underdevelopment and resentment, and would probably be a hotbed of domestic terrorism and foreign hijinks to romance them away.

[Shroom Man 777]

Does Anglia get these new colonies by basically relocating a couple of its current sectors to elsewhere in the map*, or are these colonies additions? Do they affect GDP?

*Like, are (some of?) Anglia's existing ten sectors going to be relocated, with a sector transfered here, another sector there, some becoming like... the Balklands by the Argentis (:D)?

I agree, it would be an interesting and different way to do about things. Instead of the standard contiguous United States united sectrs.

[Simon_Jester]

To Shroomy:

The idea of relocating sectors is very interesting, and one option. But I think what Steve was originally thinking was that he'd control single systems: red dots on the map, not red squares, as it were. And my idea is that by and large, these colonies expand Anglia's territory without materially increasing its economic strength. When the costs of securing and governing the colonies is factored in, some of them show a net profit, others a net loss, and it more or less cancels out.
_____________

To Tanasinn:

Pretty much.

[modhat on]

Basically, the objective here is to keep anyone from writing themselves a game-changing economic advantage, such as suddenly increasing their GDP by 20 or 30% by random acts of annexation of minors. I don't really expect anyone here* to do that, though, so it's not a huge issue.

*With no more than two exceptions, and you both know who you are...

If you try to integrate a colonial economy into your nation gradually, you get only a trickle of income from it, but your expenses are lower. If you try to integrate it forcefully, you wind up having to commit more military to garrison the colony, and from a long-term perspective you hurt your ability to profit from the colony a few decades down the line- which is beyond the scope of the game, but not beyond what you should factor in.

About the only situation where you could plausibly expect to see major short-term economic windfalls from annexing territory would be if you are effectively looting prosperous territory, carting away valuable capital goods and so on. And that's not going to happen unless you fight and win a war against a tough opponent, while somehow managing to capture a fair chunk of their wealth intact, and then proceed to systematically dismantle that wealth and ship it home.

Which, in turn, means taking military losses large enough that the windfall of victory can be justified, within reason.

Even then, though, I'd be reluctant to encourage that sort of thing, because while it's not entirely unrealistic, I've heard enough lurid stories about the SDNW3 endgame that I'm not comfortable with the idea of any player rapidly gaining strength and wealth by conquering a neighbor. Beating your neighbor might make you stronger twenty years down the line, but it won't do you much good in two years.

[modhat off]

[Shroom Man 777]

If its single systems, it might not show in the map at all. Unless we get a special more specific map that also denotes, aside from single-system Anglian holdings, also those other single-system NPC nations? Reef Stars, Volksland, Feelipeens, the Fynn states (or maybe not, since they're already designated as "Fynn", and there are so many of them), Elysium, Cananaan, that wartorn country Beowulf was playing with, etc.?

[fgalkin]

Yes, but those single-nation states will also hold Anglian Fleet bases. I want to know where the Anglian Star Cruisers are stationed, so I can stay far away.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Force Lord]

Hmm, perhaps I can finally have my Centralist sattelite states...

[Darkevilme]

Yes, but those single-nation states will also hold Anglian Fleet bases. I want to know where the Anglian Star Cruisers are stationed, so I can stay far away.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Daemons are scared of the Anglians? whyfor? scared that they'll infect you with lesbianism and cause Shroom to start making out with the nearest chick?

[Tanasinn]

One thing about colony systems is that they provide a good way to end up at war, too, which is great for storytelling purposes.

[Simon_Jester]

If its single systems, it might not show in the map at all. Unless we get a special more specific map that also denotes, aside from single-system Anglian holdings, also those other single-system NPC nations? Reef Stars, Volksland, Feelipeens, the Fynn states (or maybe not, since they're already designated as "Fynn", and there are so many of them), Elysium, Cananaan, that wartorn country Beowulf was playing with, etc.?

That might actually be a good idea: a map with little dots on it for various minor nations of interest, with labels on the side or something.

Or, heck, even a catalog of such minor polities (single-system and small multi-system) if not a map. We already have the Minor Nations page, and it could well serve the purpose, but we'd need to expand and systematize it.

[Dark Hellion]

So, I am starting to piece my various stories together. I have a lot of energy today so I will probably make at least one more story post.

[Ezekiel]

I agree, it would be an interesting and different way to do about things. Instead of the standard contiguous United States United Sectors.

Funny you mention them in particular, for I have consulted with Simon and shall be functionally nomming pretty much all of their sectors but G12 and G13, leaving them with only the bare minimum required to retain their plural S. Sic semper inculpatus!

(edit)

If you are an invading naval force say 4

Bahaha. I like the cut of your jib.

[Simon_Jester]

Did you check that with Vyraeth, Ezekiel?

[Ezekiel]

Does he even actually exist? No OOB, no posts, game's near nine months old...
...but yeah sure why not.

(edit)
He was on as recently as last night, so he definitely hasn't disappeared.

(edit II)
PM sent.

(edit III)
This is his first, last, and only post pertaining to SDNW4, here or on the wiki.
https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic ... 6#p3334276

[Steve]

Yeah, just write the story well and we'll approve it. Now if you go out claiming six sectors in your first year, that's different.

[Ezekiel]

Yeah, just write the story well and we'll approve it. Now if you go out claiming six sectors in your first year, that's different.

Okay, writing will commence when I get home from school tonight. And thirty worlds of note in one year is a bit much, yeah. A lot much.

[Akhlut]

Steve: I don't have a problem with your various colonial outposts.


As for the NenAltKik: I think we won't be doing too much outright colonial stuff, given what recently happened with a colonial world of our own.

[Simon_Jester]

[Reads Shroomy's latest]

Those poor, poor bears.

[Shroom Man 777]

Uh, Dark Hellion, what just happened?

[fgalkin]

With the help of a good comrade, did a retcon of the Lost tech, unifying the distinctive reality-raping techs into a single unified system of Universal Violation

Despite the fancy names, the Lost techs are still somehow equivalent to galstandard Heim Drives, power generators, and point defense systems (less so for the latter) and can still be defeated by vacuum-tube using bears. It's a great mystery to us, just as it was to the Apexai.


The Sigil

Deep inside a heavily warded chamber inside every Lost warship hangs the Sigil—a large five dimensional sign made of lines of darkness, light, and fissure in reality suspended in unspace. It is a tear in the universe, a Nyarlathotepian singularity, created during the reality-shattering conflict that was the War To End All Wars. The Lost have harvested millions of these fissures and have discovered a way to make them grow and change, increasing in size and power, until they are large enough to power even the greatest Homeships, a process that may take years or even decades. When the Sigil is fully formed, a hull is built around it, weapons and sensors are installed, and the daemon pilot takes possession of a fully functional warship. Until that time, the Sigils are stored in embryonic form aboard the seedships—a sphere of solid orichalcum in a basic hull with engines bolted on for mobility.


The Infinity Circuit

When used to its full extent, the Sigil compresses and warps the fabric of reality so that it forms a ring around the ship, the so-called Infinity Circuit. The steady movement of spacetime being crushed and torn in that circuit, in turn, creates ripples in reality which are then used for power, propulsion, and defense by the Lost warship that is built around it. However, much of the Sigil’s power is actually lost, wasted by the countless wards placed inside Lost ships to counteract the Sigil’s harmful effects on the fabric of spacetime, and to keep the process theologically neutral and undetectable to the Lost’s ancient Enemies.

The Maelstrom

The Maelstrom is the primary means of STL and FTL propulsion for Lost warships. The drive uses the spacetime distortion generated by the ship’s Infinity Circuit to essentially make the ship unstuck in spacetime, simultaneously existing and not existing. A Lost ship with the Maelstrom drive active gracefully glides from one location to another while ignoring such trivialities as the conservation of momentum or even the ship’s direction and heading (a particularly unsettling sight, considering the Infinity Circuit’s visual similarity to a functioning torch drive). Indeed, such is the strength of the distortion that by increasing the power output to the system, the ship is able to travel through time as well as space, leaping a few seconds into the future (and reappearing into the exact same location), sending messages into the past, and, in fact, appearing to violate relativity by simply accelerating to speeds faster than light (mysteriously never going above 53c).

The Sphere of Exclusion.

The most famous of the Lost’s technologies, the Sphere of Exclusion is but another extension of the Infinity Circuit’s spacetime distortion, amplified to be used offensively against incoming fire. Within a certain area of space (limited by the aura of the ship’s many orichalcum wards), the very fabric of spacetime can be manipulated and used to disrupt, weaken, or simply erase from existence both physical projectiles such as railgun rounds and missiles, and energy and particle beams. This has a most unsettling effect and even experienced spacers often lose their nerve as they see their weapons miss constantly, fly through the Lost ship without harming it, or even somehow end up turned around and flung back at them. However, every attack repealed requires a corresponding energy expenditure from the ship, and thus, as much as the Lost hate to admit it, even the Sphere of Exclusion can be overwhelmed by the power of the enemy’s attack, or by sheer weight of numbers.

The trapdoor system is still around, but is not based on daemonic magic, and so is not included here, along with other Lost techs. One day, I will make a wiki article of this, I swear.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Tanasinn]

Just a heads-up, expect my 3400 construction list to be retconned now that I'm developing a coherent fleet organization (something I've put off because I know fuck-all about actual military organization, really). The number'll probably stay the same or shrink slightly; I'll also account for the frigvettes I'm supposed to be purchasing from the Centrality (if I recall, they were selling at half their point cost?).

EDIT: Also, a question regarding warp gates. I understand a warp gate can transport even very large ships (I assume single ships) up to two sectors. However, the wiki mentions that having two or more allows for military fleet/larger ship mobilization at speeds higher than hyperspace transit. Seeing as I invested in 3 of the things, I figure it prudent to clarify what this means. Can a state with 2+ warp gates within 2 sectors of each other mass-deploy fleets between said gates, or am I misunderstanding? For obvious reasons, it'll bear on how I deploy my fleets.

[Simon_Jester]

EDIT: Also, a question regarding warp gates. I understand a warp gate can transport even very large ships (I assume single ships) up to two sectors. However, the wiki mentions that having two or more allows for military fleet/larger ship mobilization at speeds higher than hyperspace transit. Seeing as I invested in 3 of the things, I figure it prudent to clarify what this means. Can a state with 2+ warp gates within 2 sectors of each other mass-deploy fleets between said gates, or am I misunderstanding?

I believe this to be true. Check with Steve though.

[Ilya Muromets]

Well, I've been quietly reading the past pages the last couple of days to get myself up to speed and jump back into the game. I haven't quite caught up yet, but Shroom's given me a brief overview so maybe I'll just jump on right in.

[Shroom Man 777]

As brief a brief overview can be for a bunch of isolationalist worldships that don't give a rudd about the rest of the galaxy, anyway.