The masses now stirring in Algiers?

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The masses now stirring in Algiers?

Post by Patrick Degan »

From Hurriyet Daily:
Thousands turn out for pro-reform protest in Algeria

ALGIERS, Algeria — The Associated Press
Saturday, February 12, 2011


Thousands of riot police tried to seal off the Algerian capital on Saturday to prevent activists from holding a banned pro-democracy rally a day after Egypt's authoritarian leader was toppled.

Police blocked off streets in Algiers and set up security barricades at strategic points along the march route and outside the city to try to stop busloads of demonstrators from reaching the capital. Armed police were also posted near newspaper headquarters.

Despite the massive deployment, thousands of people defied the government ban, flooding into downtown Algiers where they faced some skirmishes with police. Some arrests were reported as police tried to disperse the crowd.

Protesters chanted slogans including "No to the police state" and "Bouteflika out," — a reference to President Abdelaziz Bouteflika, who has led this sprawling North African nation since 1999.

Under Algeria's long-standing state of emergency — in place since 1992 — protests are banned in Algiers, but repeated government warnings for people to stay away Saturday fell on deaf ears.

Still, news reports suggested security forces outnumbered demonstrators. The Algerian daily La Liberte said some 30,000 riot police had been deployed in the capital, while organizers estimated 10,000 came to march.

The march comes at a sensitive time — just a day after an uprising in Egypt forced Hosni Mubarak to resign after 30 years in power and merely a month after another "people's revolution" in neighboring Tunisia forced longtime autocrat Zine El Abidine Ben Ali into exile on Jan. 14.

The success of those uprisings is fueling hope for change in Algeria, although many in this conflict-scarred nation fear any prospect of violence after living through a brutal Islamist insurgency in the 1990s that left an estimated 200,000 dead.

Saturday's march focused on reforms pushing Algeria toward democracy but did not include a specific call to oust Bouteflika. It was organized by the Coordination for Democratic Change in Algeria, an umbrella group for human rights activists, unionists, lawyers and others.

Still, a markedly anti-government sentiment was in the air Saturday. Under the headline "Mubarak pushed from power," a cartoon in La Liberte showed the score Egypt-1, Algeria-0 and a fan waving an Algerian flag saying "we've got to tie the score."

The atmosphere in Algeria has been tense since early January, when people took to the streets in five days of rioting over rising food prices. In a bid to quell tensions, the government announced it would slash the price of sugar and cooking oil.

Poverty is endemic, despite Algeria's vast oil and gas reserves, and anger over unemployment and a lack of opportunities also helped fuel last month's riots.

Mindful of the Tunisian protests, Algerian authorities announced last week that the country's nearly two-decade-long state of emergency will be lifted in the "very near future." However, authorities warned that even then the ban on demonstrations in the capital would remain.

The army's decision to cancel Algeria's first multiparty legislative elections in January 1992 to thwart a likely victory by a Muslim fundamentalist party set off the insurgency. Scattered violence continued Saturday.
And as the Los Angeles Times reported on their blogsite this morning:
Algerian police cracked down on demonstrators at a banned Egypt-inspired anti-government march Saturday in the Algerian capital, clashing with protesters and arresting rally-goers, media reports said.

A journalist with the Agence France Presse news agency said that around 2,000 demonstrators were out in the streets of Algiers forcing a police cordon.

According to Algerian human rights activist Mustapha Bouchachi, Algerian security forces detained 100 demonstrators at the march, which had been called by the National Coordination for Change and Democracy (CNCD), an umbrella group of opposition parties and civil society movements.

“This is evidence that the authorities don’t accept peaceful demonstrations,” Bouchachi told Bloomberg News at the protest. "2011 will be a year for change. This is the first attempt.”

There were reports that those arrested include a deputy from the Algerian opposition Rally for Culture and Democracy, Othmane Maazouz.

Video footage, posted on YouTube and said to have been filmed at Saturday's protest in Algiers, appears to show police beating a protester with sticks and hauling him away. In the backgound, demonstrators are heard shouting, "The people want the fall of the regime," in Arabic, the same slogan chanted by Egyptian revolutionaries.

The CNCD had called for a mass protest Saturday demanding democratic change and more job opportunities, but only about 50 people had managed to get to the May 1 Square in central Algiers early Saturday, according to the Reuters news agency. The small group of protesters were seen shouting anti-government slogans and calling for the ouster of the Algerian president while surrounded by a field of police officers, added the report.

The Algerian French daily El Watan reported that the atmosphere was very tense at the square on Saturday afternoon, with police reinforcements being deployed and throngs of supporters of Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika trying to provoke demonstrators.

Algerian officials had banned the opposition march, and thousands of police in riot gear reportedly fanned out in the Algerian capital earlier on Saturday to stop the demonstration and prevent protesters from trying to stage an Egypt-style revolt.

As anti-government demonstrations spread across the Arab world, President Bouteflika announced earlier this month that the government would soon remove the country's state of emergency, which has been in place for the past 19 years. He also vowed to allow demonstrations, currently banned under the emergency law, to be held across the country except in the capital, Algiers.

Earlier this year, Algeria witnessed rioting over high commodity prices and unemployment. The rioting reportedly resulted in four deaths and hundreds of injuries.

--Alexandra Sandels in Beirut
The YouTube video of the police beatings:



Reports are conflicted as to the size of the protest. Officials are claiming only 1,500 protestors while organisers are claiming 10,000, facing off against 28,000 riot police who had been deployed to clamp down the streets and First of May Square.

The narrative in American news media seems again to be spinning Islamist inspiration for this event, but it has the feel of an uprising which is being touched off for reasons that shade a bit closer to Marx than Mohammed. As in Tunisia and Egypt: workers and students who have found every opportunity for a future cut off for them and now finally driven to the point where they're not going to tolerate it anymore.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

Post by Big Orange »

Places like Tunisia and Egypt can only employ so many people in the tourist industry, combine that with a large population of young males who have something of a taste for the Western lifestyle but have no way of sustaining it in intentionally underdeveloped economies that have ground to a halt on the plebian level and have also been kicked in the stomach by the rise in price for basic food - mix that in with despotic, insular, elderly thieves running their countries and BLAM-O.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

I've been seeing something on CNN about rioting in Yemen. Should be an interesting month for the mideast.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

Post by Phantasee »

They've been protesting in Yemen since Tunisia stood up. Similar issues as far as I can tell, main demand is to not hand over the presidency to the current president's son, and for term limits to not be removed from the constitution (or reinstated).
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Yeah, but doesn't Yemen do that periodically anyway? I remember a teacher of mine who was in the Peace Corp in Yemen in the late 90s where he had to be evacuated to Saudi Arabia because of the same sort of civil unrest.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

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Gil Hamilton wrote:Yeah, but doesn't Yemen do that periodically anyway? I remember a teacher of mine who was in the Peace Corp in Yemen in the late 90s where he had to be evacuated to Saudi Arabia because of the same sort of civil unrest.
Yemen is more or less in a constant state of unrest, yes.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

Post by K. A. Pital »

I'd like to note that a general uprising in a Nasserite vein (which it is - the "Islamist" bogeyman is being pulled out by the West, when on the ground the main causes are poverty, unemployment and corruption) might be largely beneficial for North Africa.

I mean... even if it ends up producing a new regime, it might not be as bad as the old ones were. How do I gather? Well... I judge by Libya. They lost their enormous oil weath since the 1980s, and yet, they have one of the highest human development indicators in Africa, a mean wage of ~10 dollars per hour, very low poverty rates, excellent education and a leading school of waterway engineering (which even the U.S. admitted, heh). Yeah, Libya is a semi-planned economy, but still. It is one of the few African nations which is on a comparable level of development to China and I'd say, approaching Second World nations.

Besides, if a wave of revolutions deposes most or all current rulers in North Africa, the prospects of closer ties between North African and Middle Eastern nations become more pronounced. And it would be a good thing, in my view.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

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Stas Bush wrote:I'd like to note that a general uprising in a Nasserite vein (which it is - the "Islamist" bogeyman is being pulled out by the West, when on the ground the main causes are poverty, unemployment and corruption) might be largely beneficial for North Africa.

I mean... even if it ends up producing a new regime, it might not be as bad as the old ones were. How do I gather? Well... I judge by Libya. They lost their enormous oil weath since the 1980s, and yet, they have one of the highest human development indicators in Africa, a mean wage of ~10 dollars per hour, very low poverty rates, excellent education and a leading school of waterway engineering (which even the U.S. admitted, heh). Yeah, Libya is a semi-planned economy, but still. It is one of the few African nations which is on a comparable level of development to China and I'd say, approaching Second World nations.

Besides, if a wave of revolutions deposes most or all current rulers in North Africa, the prospects of closer ties between North African and Middle Eastern nations become more pronounced. And it would be a good thing, in my view.
By "the West" do you mean the right wing fringe retards ala the Tea Party or has there actually been statements to that effect by governments?

Hell, I'm sure my government has made a statement or has a stance, fucked if I know what it is though, it's none of our damn business anyway.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

Post by K. A. Pital »

Aaron wrote:By "the West" do you mean the right wing fringe retards ala the Tea Party or has there actually been statements to that effect by governments?
"We support an orderly transition" when Mubarak refused to leave power the first time he adressed the protestors. I am pretty sure I heard this shit from Merkel and Obama alike. That is equivalent to saying "Stay in power until September", which is what Mubarak wanted.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

Post by Zaune »

Stas Bush wrote:"We support an orderly transition" when Mubarak refused to leave power the first time he adressed the protestors. I am pretty sure I heard this shit from Merkel and Obama alike. That is equivalent to saying "Stay in power until September", which is what Mubarak wanted.
I still kind of wish he had, actually. Eight months of breathing-space to form a cabinet and draw up more detailed policy goals than "get rid of Mubarak" would have been invaluable, but now they're going to have to do it all on the fly and hope the Army brass don't change their minds about preferring the role of kingmaker.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

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Zaune wrote:
Stas Bush wrote:"We support an orderly transition" when Mubarak refused to leave power the first time he adressed the protestors. I am pretty sure I heard this shit from Merkel and Obama alike. That is equivalent to saying "Stay in power until September", which is what Mubarak wanted.
I still kind of wish he had, actually. Eight months of breathing-space to form a cabinet and draw up more detailed policy goals than "get rid of Mubarak" would have been invaluable, but now they're going to have to do it all on the fly and hope the Army brass don't change their minds about preferring the role of kingmaker.
Here's the problem with the transition

It would have been six months of Mubarak tracking down every leader of the February revolution and either having them vanished or arrested just in time for the transition period to be pushed back because of all of the chaos in the streets, chaos Mubarak was trying to gin up himself in the days leading up to his resignation.

No one in Egypt thought "Stay in power until September" meant "And then I'll leave". They thought "Stay till September" meant "Get ready for November because that's when we are going to throw down"

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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

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Stas Bush wrote:I am pretty sure I heard this shit from Merkel and Obama alike. That is equivalent to saying "Stay in power until September", which is what Mubarak wanted.
How? What do you expect us and Germany to do to support the revolution? Invade Egypt? I honestly have no idea what you're trying to get at. I mean honestly what else can we say except 'good job keeping it civil, keep it up'? I'm not even sure how that's supporting Mubarak staying on until September.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

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General Schatten wrote:
Stas Bush wrote:I am pretty sure I heard this shit from Merkel and Obama alike. That is equivalent to saying "Stay in power until September", which is what Mubarak wanted.
How? What do you expect us and Germany to do to support the revolution? Invade Egypt? I honestly have no idea what you're trying to get at. I mean honestly what else can we say except 'good job keeping it civil, keep it up'? I'm not even sure how that's supporting Mubarak staying on until September.
You could've just said "Mubarak, get out". :lol: I mean, you did sing the "Quaddafi get out" tune along with every other Western nation, despite the fact Quaddafi was doing a far better job at developing Libya than Sadat or Mubarak did for Egypt. The difference was that the Sadat-Mubarak regime was a Western client, whereas Libya was a "rogue state" that sponsored anti-Western terrorism.

No need to send troops.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

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Stas Bush wrote:You could've just said "Mubarak, get out". :lol: I mean, you did sing the "Quaddafi get out" tune along with every other Western nation, despite the fact Quaddafi was doing a far better job at developing Libya than Sadat or Mubarak did for Egypt. The difference was that the Sadat-Mubarak regime was a Western client, whereas Libya was a "rogue state" that sponsored anti-Western terrorism.

No need to send troops.
Except we said 'We'd like an orderly transition', implicit in that is that we think Mubarak is going to step down. Besides Obama isn't Bush or any of the Presidents during the Cold War, he's too huge of a pussy. That's not support for Mubarak, just spinelessness. :P
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

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Well, so be it - I amend my words above to "indifference of the West" as opposed to support. Besides, my initial point was that the Western media is pulling out an islamist bogeyman. And probably some politicians do so as well. Israel's government, IIRC, officially talked in that fashion.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

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Stas Bush wrote:Besides, my initial point was that the Western media is pulling out an islamist bogeyman. And probably some politicians do so as well. Israel's government, IIRC, officially talked in that fashion.
Are they? I admit to not really paying attention to the news lately, mainly because America's media is almost entirely one shade of conservative or another. I've read some BBC articles and Der Spiegel, from what I can tell they've been pretty fair. So is it 'The West' or is it America's Right-Wing Propaganda Channel drowning out everyone else with their screeching as usual?
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

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That was my original question. Who in the West is pulling out the Islamic boogyman?

So far all I've seen are right wing nuts like HPCA and the Tea Party.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

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Well, so be it - I amend my words above to "indifference of the West" as opposed to support. Besides, my initial point was that the Western media is pulling out an islamist bogeyman. And probably some politicians do so as well. Israel's government, IIRC, officially talked in that fashion.
Honestly, the West in general did the best possible thing they could have done, IMO. They kept their hands off and made mostly meaningless statements that had little effect. That is far better than meddling, because it's pretty likely that anybody doing so would fuck it up, and the government that eventually came to power would know it. In short, it would be a great way to ensure that Egypt would become explicitly anti-Western.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

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Stas Bush wrote:You could've just said "Mubarak, get out". :lol: I mean, you did sing the "Quaddafi get out" tune along with every other Western nation, despite the fact Quaddafi was doing a far better job at developing Libya than Sadat or Mubarak did for Egypt.
O RLY?
THE violence and corruption of members of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's family have made Libya a gangster state with a worse record of governance than Egypt or Tunisia, according to leaked US diplomatic cables.

The documents reveal previously undisclosed details of how family greed, rivalry and extremism have complicated British and US efforts to normalise relations with Libya since it decided to abandon nuclear weapons and renounce terrorism. Gaddafi's children plunder the country's oil revenues, run a kleptocracy and operate a reign of terror that has created simmering hatred and resentment among the people, according to the cables released by WikiLeaks.

In the light of the upheavals in the Arab world, the diplomatic traffic also shows that far from being stable, Libya could be another corrupt authoritarian domino poised to fall.
And here's heartening news of protests building up again in Iran after it was ruthlessly fizzled out 18 months ago:
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Iranian police have placed opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi under house arrest, his official website says.

It says the move is intended to block him from attending a rally in Tehran in support of the protests in Egypt.

It is the latest in a series of arrests of people linked to Mr Mousavi and fellow opposition leader Mehdi Karroubi, also under house arrest.

Several opposition groups have vowed to take part in the protest, although officials have banned the gathering.

Although Iran's establishment officially supports the Egyptian popular protests, it says the rallies are a "political move" by the two opposition leaders.

The authorities have stepped up security in the capital, blocked access to internet sites, and started jamming satellite news channels.

Analysts say Tehran is trying to stop opposition groups from using the Egypt rally as a means to re-ignite anti-government protests - last seen in 2009 - against the disputed re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

In an unusual move, a girl climbed a tall crane in central Tehran on Monday morning and began inviting people to attend today's rally, the BBC's Mohsen Asgari reports from the Iranian capital.

She threatened to kill herself if officials tried to approach her, but was later arrested by the police, our correspondent says.

Also on Monday morning, Iranian police vans blocked the lane leading to the house of Mr Mousavi and disconnected his mobile phones and land lines, his website Kaleme.com said.

Last week, almost a dozen people close to Mr Mousavi were detained.
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Either way, while there is supposedly more genuine support for the current Iranian regime amongst rural Iranians and the malcontents in '09 were relatively richer city slickers who had more to lose, the illusion of invincibility surrounding the Republic of Iran has been shattered.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

Post by Edi »

I'm not surprised at the unrest in Algeria. They had a civil war in the 1990s that killed well over a 100,000 people and it all started when a religious party won the elections and was then declared illegal and a military dictatorship established.

Things there are going to go from very bad to a lot worse before they start getting any better, if they do at all.
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

Post by K. A. Pital »

Big Orange wrote:THE violence and corruption of members of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's family have made Libya a gangster state with a worse record of governance than Egypt or Tunisia, according to leaked US diplomatic cables.
Libya is a gangster state, because it gives money and weapons to people who want to kill Westerners. Now, you may disagree with this policy. I'm not sure I can connect the dots from "gangster state" to "being worse than Egypt", though. Because frankly, Libya's HDI has consistently been higher than Egypt's, and in Quaddafi's rule made a huge leap upwards despite oil revenue falling in the 1980-2010 period.
Big Orange wrote:Gaddafi's children plunder the country's oil revenues, run a kleptocracy and operate a reign of terror that has created simmering hatred and resentment among the people, according to the cables released by WikiLeaks.
http://hdrstats.undp.org/en/countries/profiles/LBY.html
http://hdrstats.undp.org/en/countries/profiles/EGY.html
The HDI graph is attached. What is remarkable is that Libya kept the high HDI rank even though their oil revenue plummeted (see income index):
HDI_graph(1).PNG
HDI_graph(1).PNG (28.9 KiB) Viewed 2542 times
By all means, it is hardly a star, but by Africa's standards, Libya is way above either Egypt or Tunisia, and Quaddafi's rule did not change that. In fact, it may have been a factor behind Libya's successes (as well as it's failures, obviously).
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HDI_graph.PNG
HDI_graph.PNG (14.88 KiB) Viewed 2542 times
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

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Stas, I think you are unaware of the statements made by the German government. Westerwelle made several statements supporting the protesters, as did Merkel.

For example, the government made an official statement on the 10th saying that Mubrak's offers to the protestors were "not enough" (Was Mubarak in Aussicht gestellt hat, das reicht nicht.), that the anger of the protesters was "understandable", that Germany was "concerned" about Mubarak's thugs and that "nobody in Egypt should get the impression that he can simply sit this one out".

Likewise, there is this statement by the coordinator for human rights of the foreign ministry, which was made on the 8th.
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K. A. Pital
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

Post by K. A. Pital »

Thanas wrote:Stas, I think you are unaware of the statements made by the German government. Westerwelle made several statements supporting the protesters, as did Merkel.

For example, the government made an official statement on the 10th saying that Mubrak's offers to the protestors were "not enough" (Was Mubarak in Aussicht gestellt hat, das reicht nicht.), that the anger of the protesters was "understandable", that Germany was "concerned" about Mubarak's thugs and that "nobody in Egypt should get the impression that he can simply sit this one out".

Likewise, there is this statement by the coordinator for human rights of the foreign ministry, which was made on the 8th.
Oh, my bad then. To be fair, I should've watched German TV instead of relying on Russian news to gather what the German government is saying. After all, "Mubarak's offers are not enough" is a completely different statement than what has been shown to us. Which is remarkable.
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Big Orange
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

Post by Big Orange »

Stas Bush wrote:Libya is a gangster state, because it gives money and weapons to people who want to kill Westerners. Now, you may disagree with this policy.
Hmmmm, while I haven't read enough about the Lockerbie incident, it never seemed clear who was really responsible for the bombing and it could've been Iranian security/intelligence goons.
I'm not sure I can connect the dots from "gangster state" to "being worse than Egypt", though. Because frankly, Libya's HDI has consistently been higher than Egypt's, and in Quaddafi's rule made a huge leap upwards despite oil revenue falling in the 1980-2010 period.
They're a "gangster state" in that they've wheeled and dealed with the West as well (one of Gaddafi's spoilt nephews was not charged for beating up high-class London hookers; the alleged Lockerbie suspect sent back to Libya to placate it for more oil rights, etc), but I have no sympathy for Mubarak's very neglectful, corrupt regime either, that more openly based its law enforcement around torture.

Gaddafi's regime may have been relatively better than Mubarak's regime, and it's blown up in one of Libya's cities, Benghazi, now:
Hundreds of people have clashed with police and government supporters in the Libyan city of Benghazi.
At least 14 people are said to have been hurt, with witnesses saying police fired rubber bullets and tear gas.

The overnight unrest followed the arrest of an outspoken critic of the government, who was reportedly freed later.

Pro-democracy protests have recently swept through several Arab nations.

The demonstrators have forced the presidents of Tunisia and Egypt from power.

However, correspondents say it is unlikely that Libya's leader Muammar Gaddafi - who has ruled the country since a coup in 1969 - will lose power any time soon.
BBC
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Re: The masses now stirring in Algiers?

Post by Jadeite »

There have been protests in Bahrain as well, though the government is moving quickly to crush them, including going as far as preventing ambulances from reaching wounded protesters, and assaulting medical staff treating the injured.
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