Power of Star Wars weapons, a tad bit exagerated

[TheDarkling]

Mr Bean: You could have your ships waiting at the edge of the system - if they had sent scouts they would have found the same in both cases.

Simply hoping they are going to wait around isnt really a great plan at worst he should have brought much more firepower in case the rebels somehow got the shield down, whats up palply didnt you uber force sense tell you teddy bears can tip the balance of power .

If interdictors were present then why not bring more ships since the interdictors could easily stop the rebels escaping.

[Mr Bean]

Papy had more tha Uber Force sense going for him, He had compltle suprize and furthermore I ask you Darkling how you hide 100 ships with 5 Million Crewers from suddenly dissapering?

The fact that Papy was able to split of thirty ships and completly, Note COMPLETLY suprize the Rebels(EU indicates they though those ships where elsewhere at the time) was a huge thing in and of itself

Incase you forgot thirty ISDs and the Ex gives you a comfly six to one Margin aginst the Rebels along with the DS and its opertational Superlaser

They should have won easily by all accounts they lost and lost big due to idiot mistakes by the Ground Forces, The space Forces(The ISDs hung back instead of moving forward to Engage the Rebels, agian another easy win but Piett had orders to hold station)

[TheDarkling]

Mr Bean:They noticed 30 ships in 25,000 woah the rebels had a huge intel advantage over the empire.
If the rebels could track his ships that well then I will admit his us eof so little forces makes sme sense (thats the reason I originally thought he had so few ships there but then I learned the empire had 25,000 ISDs so a few hundred shouldnt be misssed, I didnt account for the rebels having such good intel).

The way I heard it the space forces got hammered because without Papy doing Jedi mind control they fell apart - not exactly great statement for the empires abilities (I got that from one of the thrawn books but I cant remeber which one).

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

They might have been OK without the mind-enhancement, better with it, but the Emperor's sudden death creates withdrawal. Most people don't fight too well when they are in withdrawal. Maybe after a while, they'll be OK, but that while is too long when you are in a space battle.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

200 GT Turbolasers are bullshit. By Wong's own argument, they can't really be that powerful. In Wong's unintelligent and unecissarily harsh criticization of Star Trek Insurrection, he claimed that the part where the Enterprise used the gas from the nebula to destroy the Son'a ships was impossible because no gas could possibly be volitile enough to produce an explosion of that power. Um hello... this is the same argument I used against turbolasers firing a beam through Tibanna gas and magically ending up with 200 GT per shot. That's impossible. Come up with a reasonable number and let me know when you do.

Wow! You're another moron who doesn't know what TLs are!

[Yuri]

Naw, Yuri's just uninformed. In the Emperor Tiberius I vs. Thrawn thread, he started quoting The Outrageous Okana and other such stereotypical comments as proof that an ISD couldn't harm a Federation ship. Next is attacking the 200 GT figures. Now he's only 4 months behind the rest of the Trek community.

Not uninformed. More like reasonable. 200GT is pure bullshit. You're basically claiming that one turbolaser shot is more powerful than a hundred Hiroshima a-bombs. Don't be surprised when someone tells you you're an idiot. What the fuck kind of debating skills are those? You can't prove that SW would always take out ST, so you start claiming seriously that each laser they fire is hundreds of times more powerful than the entire federation fleet is capable of. Get a fucking life.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Oh, so aside from your half-ass and pathetic attempt to flame me, you're saying it is magic, yes?

No you idiot, how TLs work are unknown, just like almost all other SW tech.



And BTW you stupid ass trekkie, TLs use power generators to power them, they don't use the gas.

[Yuri]

200 GT Turbolasers are bullshit. By Wong's own argument, they can't really be that powerful. In Wong's unintelligent and unecissarily harsh criticization of Star Trek Insurrection, he claimed that the part where the Enterprise used the gas from the nebula to destroy the Son'a ships was impossible because no gas could possibly be volitile enough to produce an explosion of that power. Um hello... this is the same argument I used against turbolasers firing a beam through Tibanna gas and magically ending up with 200 GT per shot. That's impossible. Come up with a reasonable number and let me know when you do.

Wow! You're another moron who doesn't know what TLs are!

Well, if you're just going to flame me fine.
*Sean Connery voice* - "Your mother's a whore."

[TheDarkling]

Naw, Yuri's just uninformed. In the Emperor Tiberius I vs. Thrawn thread, he started quoting The Outrageous Okana and other such stereotypical comments as proof that an ISD couldn't harm a Federation ship. Next is attacking the 200 GT figures. Now he's only 4 months behind the rest of the Trek community.

Not uninformed. More like reasonable. 200GT is pure bullshit. You're basically claiming that one turbolaser shot is more powerful than a hundred Hiroshima a-bombs. Don't be surprised when someone tells you you're an idiot. What the fuck kind of debating skills are those? You can't prove that SW would always take out ST, so you start claiming seriously that each laser they fire is hundreds of times more powerful than the entire federation fleet is capable of. Get a fucking life.

They arent claiming it they have proof end of story unless you have some good evidence to put on the table, shut up and crawl off to whatever whole that spewed you forth.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Not uninformed. More like reasonable. 200GT is pure bullshit. You're basically claiming that one turbolaser shot is more powerful than a hundred Hiroshima a-bombs.

Try 10 million. And even todays big nukes are 3000 times.

Don't be surprised when someone tells you you're an idiot.

Because super advanced tech is a lot more powerful then our weapons?

What the fuck kind of debating skills are those? You can't prove that SW would always take out ST,

Mike's site was showing SW would kick ST's ass long before 2002.

so you start claiming seriously that each laser they fire is hundreds of times more powerful than the entire federation fleet is capable of. Get a fucking life.

Really? I thought an official book wrote by someone with a Phd in astrophysics and no interest in these debates did.


Get a fucking life? Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

They arent claiming it they have proof end of story unless you have some good evidence to put on the table, shut up and crawl off to whatever whole that spewed you forth.

See Yuri, even the trekkies are telling you your wrong. Maybe because they actually are intelligent.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Well, if you're just going to flame me fine.
*Sean Connery voice* - "Your mother's a whore."

I see you ignore that you're so off about TLs.

[omegaLancer]

Yuri your problem is this is Sci fi, the fact is a official source states that the Quad turbo laser has a yield of 200GT per shot make it official, and the rest as is much of Sci Fi is under believable..

How does ST warp engineer work?... Technobabble and it come down to it just does...

How does a transporter work - not thru Quantum entanglement, but by breaking the subject down and reassembling them at the other location.. seem hard to believe...

How does a Phaser work.. Some make believe particle ( Nadion) that send matter to subspace...

So complaining that Turbolaser cannot be 200GT is just sour grapes, it just is. Call it suspension of belief..

The best explaination would be that Tibanna Gas is actually element 118 ( A gasous tranuranic element) and that the laser excites the Protons in the Nucleus instead of the electrons ( like what happen in a laser) This produces a coherent beam of gamma rays ( Glaser) which then is pulsed into soliton like wave package called light bullets that give it the range and power...

there a techobabble explanation that is about a light year ahead anything that a trekkie could come up with....

[Stravo]

200 GT Turbolasers are bullshit. By Wong's own argument, they can't really be that powerful. In Wong's unintelligent and unecissarily harsh criticization of Star Trek Insurrection, he claimed that the part where the Enterprise used the gas from the nebula to destroy the Son'a ships was impossible because no gas could possibly be volitile enough to produce an explosion of that power. Um hello... this is the same argument I used against turbolasers firing a beam through Tibanna gas and magically ending up with 200 GT per shot. That's impossible. Come up with a reasonable number and let me know when you do.

Is this guy FOR REAL? It seems to me that every few weeks some drooling Trekkie fanatic (Once again no insult intended to the reasonable trekkies out there) comes onto these boards spewing THE SAME old arguments and refusing to accept the inevitable. Doesn't anyone get tired of shooting these poor bastards down every time???

There should be some sort of top ten list with all the valid points we've discussed clearly outlined with the supporting evidence and we should have it on a template and every time one of these guys comes trolling around with Outrageous Okuna quotes and 200 Gigaton lasers don't exist we should just slap on the template and go on with our lives...except to pause and hear the whiny sobs from the losers as they realize how wrong they are....

[Mr Bean]

Mr Bean:They noticed 30 ships in 25,000 woah the rebels had a huge intel advantage over the empire.
If the rebels could track his ships that well then I will admit his us eof so little forces makes sme sense (thats the reason I originally thought he had so few ships there but then I learned the empire had 25,000 ISDs so a few hundred shouldnt be misssed, I didnt account for the rebels having such good intel).

The way I heard it the space forces got hammered because without Papy doing Jedi mind control they fell apart - not exactly great statement for the empires abilities (I got that from one of the thrawn books but I cant remeber which one).

First off you overstate how hard it is to take 50k People
You know how easy it is to find out where a Ship is?
A great deal of SW ships are set up as Plantary Defenses and Sector Fleets, When you have 100 Ships here and 100 ships there its easy to count, By nessity those ships have to go to planets to Resupply at planets. What do planets have? People, millions to billions to trillions of people, Any of which could with a Telescope count ships in Orbit and with PUBLIC ACCESS(On some planets) to a Sensor picture of the space area.

Think about it this way
50k On an ISD any of which, Inculding Droids are spys you know where the ship is
If you manage to get a single Spy on a planet of Billions you know if any ships are there also if you have a family memeber of any of the crewers you know if thier ship is on speical assigment because you stop getting Holo-calls and letters from them or they even out-right tell you
You vastly-overstate the diffuclty of tracking ships and from numerous EU sources we know that there are Rebels(sometimes larges groups) on everything from Jerkwater planets like Tatooine to Courscant there are rebels around. Furthermore how many covert droids could you build and have go around? And Slicing? Those ships have to be resupplyied and regularly meet with other ships to pick-up odds and ends, Just because a Ship CAN Carry supplies for a year without stoping does it mean they always do? And what about thier Escourts? Don't they need supplies faster? Meaning they have to go to planets and filepaper-work, scehdualing what-not

Second Heir to the Empire is the book your thinking off and after the Emperor died they lost thier *rush for all intents and purpsoses where like a Drug additct right after it wears off and they go through With-draw, the fact they did not sit still moan, complain and throw up speaks greatly of thier Traning

Remeber Papy was driving them, motivating them and when they lost that they suddely lost thier drive and went through Withdraw

[omegaLancer]

Does it matter how many ship the Empire had at Endor, hell it was a lot more than the Federation had at the battle of Wolf.. and they had the future of earth on the line...

The fact is the Star destroyers was just there to prevent the Rebels from escaping. The real destruction of the Rebel fleet was to be done by the Death stars.. It was to stand as a lesson, the first death star was defeated by the Rebel and the second would spell the destruction of the same rebels..

unfortuntily for a few thousand teddy bears and change of heart by Vader..
Even is the Shield Generator was destroy, if the Emperor escape, he may have manage to get the ambushing fleet to destroy the rebel. but the lost of the flagship, deathstar and Emperor was a blow that the empire fleet could recover from.

Even with that the Empire continue battling for over 20 years, almost turning the tide on several occasion.

The fact is the Empire at its height, with it advance technology is many time stronger than the Federation could ever hope to match, hell even at this point of time the what remains of the Empire would wipe the floor with the Federation....

[Mr Bean]

The fact is the Empire at its height, with it advance technology is many time stronger than the Federation could ever hope to match, hell even at this point of time the what remains of the Empire would wipe the floor with the Federation....

Its been said a single SSD could take on the Entire Alpha Quadrent(Some even say a Single ISD) due to AOTC and that 200GT figure, scalling gives us Teraton level weapons and even unscalled its 60 times more energy then needed to take down an Galaxy class ship

And each turret can be shooting at a diffren target and it takes 100 defiants nearly five hours assuming infinite torps to tear a SSD shields down to 50%

[Yuri]

Until George Lucas says 200GT lasers are real, you don't have any proof other than that's the way you wish it were, end of story. Besides, 200GT is more than enough energy to push any ship off course, yet the Millenium Falcon is never pushed off course, much less blown halfway across the galaxy each time it gets hit. Why is this? And if you're going to say that the engines are really that powerful, well then shut up and don't bother. I noticed that the whole turbolaser argument on this site is just a a goofy debate over inconsistancies in special effects. (Again, get a life, Mike Wong). By the way, I like Star Wars, believe it or not, but not enough to pull absured numbers out of my ass and be a prick about it when anyone questions them. I have this radical new idea that I can watch both SW and ST and ignore the inconsistanceis in them and enjoy the story without the need to go buy technical manuals for technologies that don't even exist. Guess you all are such nerds that this idea is beyond you, so we'll just have to start a flamewar, I guess.

[Yuri]

In the interests of being an asshole, I'm now suggesting that Mon Cal ships have 202GT turbolasers on them. I pulled that number out of my ass, so that must be "proof" that it's real.

[TheDarkling]

So what do we think guys, Village Idiot or skip straight to a banning?

Listen Bucko if you have some actual evidence put it in a proper manner with Refs etc and deal with the evidence that conflicts with you theory instead of engaging in these stupid attacks against all pro wars in general and MW in particular.

As far as these debates go official material does count as valid evidence thus you must discount the ICS with actual evidence not simply whine about it.

In short Put up or Shut up.

[Yuri]

Nah, I'd rather just say you've all collectively lost it. I'm not talking about ICS am I? I'm talking about the what we see in the movies, which is not 200GT, unless you want to put up some ridiculous argument about "everything" being that powerful. No numerical data is actually needed to understand what a ridiculous idea it is. Think about it, 200GT energy weapon hits ship. All energy from the shot is transferred into the sheilds or the hull of the ship. The idea of shields being able to withstand that much energy is just as absurd, by the way. The affected ship would be totally unable to hold its course and would more likely be blown clear across the galaxy. Sci-fi ships are powerful, but not that powerful. Or have you arbitrarily redefined a gigaton as a very small unit of measurement? Oh, and I take banning as a compliment. Please ban me. It will make me feel so much better.

[TheDarkling]

Nah, I'd rather just say you've all collectively lost it. I'm not talking about ICS am I? I'm talking about the what we see in the movies, which is not 200GT, unless you want to put up some ridiculous argument about "everything" being that powerful.

ICS states that the HTL's are 200 GT as a min value, we dont see the HTL's except maybe at the end of ROTJ and then we dont see them up close.

No numerical data is actually needed to understand what a ridiculous idea it is. Think about it, 200GT energy weapon hits ship. All energy from the shot is transferred into the sheilds or the hull of the ship. The idea of shields being able to withstand that much energy is just as absurd, by the way.

Why?

The affected ship would be totally unable to hold its course and would more likely be blown clear across the galaxy. Sci-fi ships are powerful, but not that powerful.

Proof?

Or have you arbitrarily redefined a gigaton as a very small unit of measurement?

Nope

Oh, and I take banning as a compliment. Please ban me. It will make me feel so much better.

It would make me feel much better but I fear it is not to be, I do however think that you should expand this process of sharing your views to other threads so that everyone can revel in your "stunning" insights.

At least Darkstar puts forth evidence for his claims even though he often will not listen to counter arguments.

[Tsyroc]

It would make me feel much better but I fear it is not to be, I do however think that you should expand this process of sharing your views to other threads so that everyone can revel in your "stunning" insights.
.

Ahhhh, does he have to?

[TheDarkling]

I shouldnt be the only one to marvel at his amzing level of intellect, I will let you take that phase as you will .

[Mr Bean]

But he wont will he?

And Lucus said to the people Offical is Cannon and it was good thus ICS and other became Cannon

And Roddenberry said to the people that only Shows shall be Cannon, Only Yonder TV shall ever been cannon and not TMs or Magazines or anything else
And there was much anger in the land.

Keeping in mind the TESB Astorid section shows anywhere from 20GT-174GT depending on what rocks where out there and you start to see how you lack any vauge sort of an aurgment

But lets say it this way

ICS IS OFFICAL
OFFICAL IS CANNON
DEAL WITH IT