Response to RedLetterMedia's TPM Review (108 Page PDF)

[emersonlakeandbalmer]

"A clip is shown, of Obi-Wan not being fast enough to rejoin Qui-Gon before an energy shield cuts him off.
But Stoklasa also doesn't mention the factors leading up to the specific part that he's complaining about here. Obi-Wan is kicked in the face by Darth Maul. He then falls several dozen feet down, slamming hard into another walkway below him which he barely grabs hold of in order to avoid falling even more. Obi-Wan then pulls himself up, before using the Force to leap high up again. So excuse him for not using the Force again several seconds after just using it, and not long after taking some hard hits."

Your wrong again. After Obi-Wan gets up to the platform and the energy shields come on for the first time. Everyone stops and catches their breath. Fucking Qui-Gon grabs a seat and start meditating. So even if you were right and the force was limited he had more than enough time to build up his mana and speed run to save his master.

No, I'm not wrong. The scene is exactly as I described. Obi-Wan is kicked in the face, falls and slams into a surface several dozen feet (at least) below, has to hold on from falling again, pulls himself back up, Force jumps to where Qui-Gon and Maul are fighting...and doesn't use Force speed in the seconds right after taking all those hits and making those other Force feats. All of his talk about Qui-Gon sitting down and meditating are irrelevant, because that happens after Obi-Wan runs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4h3_y7SauA&t=2m26s

Hey look at that. Obi-Wan just hanging out, Qui-Gon sitting on the floor and you don't know what you're talking about.

[Formless]

Raynor is a talking about the scene that happens at 8:21 of THIS point in the movie from before they even enter the corridor of conveniently placed forcefields (seriously, why are they even there?). Nice try though, jumping to a part of the movie after the one that is under discussion and acting like you know more about what's going on than Raynor.

[nygma619]

Jim Raynor:
"What "logic" are you talking about? The Trade Fed has some military muscle behind it. Which makes it no different than lots of big bad businesses in lots of other movies."

How many big bad businesses invade a country in real life or the movies (besides this one)?

United Fruit Company hired mercenaries to overthrow the government of Guatemala in the 1950s. Gulf Oil hired Cuban soldiers to fight in Angola in the 1980s. This kind of thing was much more common in the 18th and 19th Centuries, especially under the East India Tea Company, which had its own army in India. Given the Indian-sounding names from TPM (Naboo, Padme) this might be where Lucas got the idea.

For the first ones, the key word is HIRED. Not them doing it themselves. For the later I was referring to it more in a modern context, not one where it's premise took place in a different time period and by today's standards it just looks out dated.

Or to put another way, to me it makes more sense do something that's simpler like one planet trying to invade another, and have Palpatine pulling the strings with that. And not something that's going to bore majority of the audience, when you bog the movie in all that trade federation/taxation crap. Well, at least I was fucking bored with it.

[nygma619]

"Oh please, don't try to justify his (dishonest, incorrect) nitpicking as having some greater and more profound point."

Not really but he gets a pass on some of it for playing a character who supposed to be senile (and it's used for entertainment reasons). When you do it, it's just your attempt to prove him wrong.

Ah, yes, clearly anything bad with the RedLetterMedia review is deliberate! I hereby declare that any poor elements of the prequels are similarly deliberate on the choice of Lucas, thereby excusing them for all time from any critiques. Now go ahead and explain why you can invoke this "defense" for him but not for the prequels, if you please.

A little thing called context.

[emersonlakeandbalmer]

Raynor is a talking about the scene that happens at 8:21 of THIS point in the movie from before they even enter the corridor of conveniently placed forcefields (seriously, why are they even there?). Nice try though, jumping to a part of the movie after the one that is under discussion and acting like you know more about what's going on than Raynor.

That might be the part of the movie Raynor is discussing, but it's not the part of the movie RLM was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORWPCCzSgu0&t=5m6s

And either way is doesn't change the fact that the writing is terrible and you can't justify giving the jedi super speed and then never having them use it again. So nice try right back at you.

[Bakustra]

A little thing called context.

What is the context here, then? The context of treating the things that you do like as unvarnished truth and the things which you don't like as obviously jokes? Turning his review from a highly truthful unveiling of the flaws of the Star Wars prequels into a lengthy, extraordinary satire of nerds between sentences? Is that the "context"? Because that's not context so much as cognitive dissonance there.

For the first ones, the key word is HIRED. Not them doing it themselves. For the later I was referring to it more in a modern context, not one where it's premise took place in a different time period and by today's standards it just looks out dated.

So? What's the big leap, apart from you being apparently a corporatist, between hiring and operating? Secondly, the idea that historical allusions in a movie series that already relied on them for the OT is inappropriate in the modern age is stupid and wrong, wrong, wrong. Frankly, if you told me that The Room was dull and Freddy Got Fingered was tasteless at this point I'd feel tempted to test that for myself, it's so wrong. Movies, and all media, when they are set in fictional periods and locations, do not need to be bound by the conventions of modern society, and to say they are is to take the idea of creativity and guillotine it. Saying that referencing the long history of corporations and conglomerates having private armies at their disposal is too "old-fashioned" is ridiculous.

And either way is doesn't change the fact that the writing is terrible and you can't justify giving the jedi super telekinesis and then never having them use it again. So nice try right back at you.

-emersonlakeandbalmer, circa 1980, talking about how implausible it was Yoda could lift an X-wing and nobody else uses this level of power again.

[emersonlakeandbalmer]

And either way is doesn't change the fact that the writing is terrible and you can't justify giving the jedi super telekinesis and then never having them use it again. So nice try right back at you.
-emersonlakeandbalmer, circa 1980, talking about how implausible it was Yoda could lift an X-wing and nobody else uses this level of power again.

That would be a good burn, if there was a scene later in the movie where an x-wing was going to land on Han Solo and Yoda was there and decided not to save him because he was tired.

[Bakustra]

You're missing the point. That whole scene is well out of line with the rest of the movies concerning telekinetic strength among the Jedi. But nobody cares. Nobody cares (I sincerely hope) about the super-speed going unused except for you- both scenes used or did not use the powers for dramatic effect. Would you really have preferred if the final battle had been structured around a single, unimportant scene from the opening minutes and every god damn fight scene was either sub-Transformers levels of busyness in scene comp or made heavy use of slo-mo- way to date the effects. Or is your argument that the sole scene with superspeed wrecks TPM permanently, in which case your level of caring about it suggests, frankly, to me, that you need to get some Vitamin D into your life.

This is without going into the inane idea you presented that the Force was presented as unlimited in the OT and that the prequels wrecked it (using terms like "mana bar" to boot) which ranks down there with evolutionary psychology biotruths for stupidity. But I feel charitable today.

[nygma619]

A little thing called context.

What is the context here, then? The context of treating the things that you do like as unvarnished truth and the things which you don't like as obviously jokes? Turning his review from a highly truthful unveiling of the flaws of the Star Wars prequels into a lengthy, extraordinary satire of nerds between sentences? Is that the "context"? Because that's not context so much as cognitive dissonance there.

The context is him doing it as playing a character who is a nerd and a senile old man, some of the stuff like JR calling him dishonest and/or unintelligent are really things that just boil down to opinion.

For the first ones, the key word is HIRED. Not them doing it themselves. For the later I was referring to it more in a modern context, not one where it's premise took place in a different time period and by today's standards it just looks out dated.

So? What's the big leap, apart from you being apparently a corporatist, between hiring and operating? Secondly, the idea that historical allusions in a movie series that already relied on them for the OT is inappropriate in the modern age is stupid and wrong, wrong, wrong. Frankly, if you told me that The Room was dull and Freddy Got Fingered was tasteless at this point I'd feel tempted to test that for myself, it's so wrong. Movies, and all media, when they are set in fictional periods and locations, do not need to be bound by the conventions of modern society, and to say they are is to take the idea of creativity and guillotine it. Saying that referencing the long history of corporations and conglomerates having private armies at their disposal is too "old-fashioned" is ridiculous.

There's nothing wrong with using it, as long as the characters/actors don't have a bored look on their faces (that makes it look like they want to be elsewhere) during these scenes, and it's not done in a fucking boring ass manner.

[Bakustra]

A little thing called context.

What is the context here, then? The context of treating the things that you do like as unvarnished truth and the things which you don't like as obviously jokes? Turning his review from a highly truthful unveiling of the flaws of the Star Wars prequels into a lengthy, extraordinary satire of nerds between sentences? Is that the "context"? Because that's not context so much as cognitive dissonance there.

The context is him doing it as playing a character who is a nerd and a senile old man, some of the stuff like JR calling him dishonest and/or unintelligent are really things that just boil down to opinion.

That doesn't address much of what I said- why should he be judged with a bias towards him and the prequels judged with a bias against them?

For the first ones, the key word is HIRED. Not them doing it themselves. For the later I was referring to it more in a modern context, not one where it's premise took place in a different time period and by today's standards it just looks out dated.

So? What's the big leap, apart from you being apparently a corporatist, between hiring and operating? Secondly, the idea that historical allusions in a movie series that already relied on them for the OT is inappropriate in the modern age is stupid and wrong, wrong, wrong. Frankly, if you told me that The Room was dull and Freddy Got Fingered was tasteless at this point I'd feel tempted to test that for myself, it's so wrong. Movies, and all media, when they are set in fictional periods and locations, do not need to be bound by the conventions of modern society, and to say they are is to take the idea of creativity and guillotine it. Saying that referencing the long history of corporations and conglomerates having private armies at their disposal is too "old-fashioned" is ridiculous.

There's nothing wrong with using it, as long as the characters/actors don't have a bored look on their faces (that makes it look like they want to be elsewhere) during these scenes, and it's not done in a fucking boring ass manner.

So why complain about it, you boor?! If it doesn't matter, then why moan about how it doesn't fit in the "modern world" rather than what you've brought up now? So few people can actually articulate meaningful complaints about the prequels- most complaints are frankly asinine covers for a general dissatisfaction, and I wish that people would stop that.

[Havok]

I love how people complain about Obi-Wan not doing this and that in TPM, with little or no regard to the fact that he was still a Padawan and was completely losing his composure as he had never actually fought a Sith before, the most dreaded and feared enemy of the Jedi for like, ever.

"He he fought Darth Vader and cut off his arms and legs!!!" Yeah, douchebag, that was like 15 years later when he was a battle hardened Jedi Master. For fucks sake.

[Loup Garou]

I love how people complain about Obi-Wan not doing this and that in TPM, with little or no regard to the fact that he was still a Padawan and was completely losing his composure as he had never actually fought a Sith before, the most dreaded and feared enemy of the Jedi for like, ever.

"He he fought Darth Vader and cut off his arms and legs!!!" Yeah, douchebag, that was like 15 years later when he was a battle hardened Jedi Master. For fucks sake.

Mostly, people bitch about how ~in TPM anyways~ he does almost nothing. Seriously, aside from killing Darth Mal he doesn't do anything in the movie. Further, he didn't strike me as being scared. More pissed then anything else.

[Loup Garou]

I love how people complain about Obi-Wan not doing this and that in TPM, with little or no regard to the fact that he was still a Padawan and was completely losing his composure as he had never actually fought a Sith before, the most dreaded and feared enemy of the Jedi for like, ever.

"He he fought Darth Vader and cut off his arms and legs!!!" Yeah, douchebag, that was like 15 years later when he was a battle hardened Jedi Master. For fucks sake.

People complain about obi because he basicly did nothing in TPM until the final fight with darth mal. Up until that point he was a pointless addition to the story.

[ronindave]

This Obi-wan Force Speed debate is a nitpick for sure but it's a valid one in terms of story writing. If people are asking the question "Well why didn't he just do this like he did before or use this like he did before?" then you have a problem in the narrative that needs to be explained. Sometime it would be better to have another set of circumstances where you don't need worry about it at all.

The point of the scene was to get Qui-Gon alone so he could be killed by Maul while Obi-wan looks on helplessly but the circumstances that created that scene were dubious. There is nothing in the scene to give anyone any indication that Obi-wan could or couldn't use that Force Speed trick again. Making assumptions for this lapse is ridiculous. It could have been easily resolved if he had been cut in the leg or had Maul create some kind of diversion long enough to kill Qui-Gon. That's believable but to have a power used earlier and not used later when it would have been useful is not very good writing especially when no reason is given or shown.

What's rather telling is that Force Speed hardly ever comes up again in the movies (probably because in live-action it looks kind of dumb).

[nygma619]

That doesn't address much of what I said- why should he be judged with a bias towards him and the prequels judged with a bias against them?

Well for me, his reviews of the films earned a degree of respect in what criticisms he brought about in the films. The prequels did NOTHING to earn any respect from me.

So why complain about it, you boor?!

Because it was boring.

If it doesn't matter, then why moan about how it doesn't fit in the "modern world" rather than what you've brought up now?

I didn't say it doesn't matter. I said it does because it made the films boring. Star Wars is/was known for being focused around space adventure. Not Galactic Political Diarrhea.

So few people can actually articulate meaningful complaints about the prequels- most complaints are frankly asinine covers for a general dissatisfaction, and I wish that people would stop that.

Now THAT'S a biased opinion. Wait, your right we should just accept complaints like wooden acting, and god awful dialogue. LONG LIVE MEDIOCRITY!

[emersonlakeandbalmer]

I love how people complain about Obi-Wan not doing this and that in TPM, with little or no regard to the fact that he was still a Padawan and was completely losing his composure as he had never actually fought a Sith before, the most dreaded and feared enemy of the Jedi for like, ever.

"He he fought Darth Vader and cut off his arms and legs!!!" Yeah, douchebag, that was like 15 years later when he was a battle hardened Jedi Master. For fucks sake.

So at first it was because he was tired and couldn't use the force again (which the movie proves wasn't even the case) and now its because he's was a Padawan. I could live with that if at any point his force powers had failed him, but seeing as he defeated the Sith who had just killed a Jedi master he seems more than competent in with his force powers.

Do you defenders like having to change your position to justify all the bad writing? I just don't understand why you can't admit that giving the Jedi super speed was just a bad idea. It's ok to say something didn't make sense in a movie you like.

[emersonlakeandbalmer]

You're missing the point. That whole scene is well out of line with the rest of the movies concerning telekinetic strength among the Jedi. But nobody cares. Nobody cares (I sincerely hope) about the super-speed going unused except for you- both scenes used or did not use the powers for dramatic effect. Would you really have preferred if the final battle had been structured around a single, unimportant scene from the opening minutes and every god damn fight scene was either sub-Transformers levels of busyness in scene comp or made heavy use of slo-mo- way to date the effects. Or is your argument that the sole scene with superspeed wrecks TPM permanently, in which case your level of caring about it suggests, frankly, to me, that you need to get some Vitamin D into your life.

This is without going into the inane idea you presented that the Force was presented as unlimited in the OT and that the prequels wrecked it (using terms like "mana bar" to boot) which ranks down there with evolutionary psychology biotruths for stupidity. But I feel charitable today.

Do go on... how is it out of line with telekinetic strength among Jedi?

That question aside. My point was that Jim went to great lengths to defend things that really any normal person should admit was kind of a bad idea. Then on top of that he was just plan wrong in his defense.

The real question is what does cutting the super speed at the begin of TPM cost the viewer? Nothing. What's the dramatic effect of its use in that scene? Nothing. So no. I wouldn't want "a final battle constructed around a single unimportant scene from the opening minutes" I would want that single unimportant scene (not even the scene really just the effect) cut from the film. You, I assume, like single unimportant scenes, which is most likely why you like TPM. It must be all the Vitamin D you're getting.

But not the superspeed isn't what wrecked TPM for me. That would be a combination of Jar Jar, child anakin, "yippee", 6 hour pod races, space taxes, midichlorian, bad guys that sound like racist caricatures, incompetent bad guys, the thousand yard stare on every actor has on their because they're acting next to a tennis ball on a poll, etc, etc

I can't wait to hear how much you guys love Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls and how The Happening is a totally under rated horror master piece.

As for the force and its limits. I'm still waiting to hear when any of the jedi discussed how the powers worked and what their limitation were. If I missed a scene let me know, because anything else is conjecture.

Mana Bar

[Havok]

I love how people complain about Obi-Wan not doing this and that in TPM, with little or no regard to the fact that he was still a Padawan and was completely losing his composure as he had never actually fought a Sith before, the most dreaded and feared enemy of the Jedi for like, ever.

"He he fought Darth Vader and cut off his arms and legs!!!" Yeah, douchebag, that was like 15 years later when he was a battle hardened Jedi Master. For fucks sake.

So at first it was because he was tired and couldn't use the force again (which the movie proves wasn't even the case) and now its because he's was a Padawan. I could live with that if at any point his force powers had failed him, but seeing as he defeated the Sith who had just killed a Jedi master he seems more than competent in with his force powers.

Do you defenders like having to change your position to justify all the bad writing? I just don't understand why you can't admit that giving the Jedi super speed was just a bad idea. It's ok to say something didn't make sense in a movie you like.

Wow, you're quite the idiot aren't you. Considering that was my first post in the thread, I don't see how I am changing my position.

As for your argument. I guess you missed the part about losing his composure? You see, that happened BEFORE he defeated the Sith Lord, and BEFORE he took the time to calm himself so that he actually could defeat Maul, but hey, why let a little thing like facts get in the way of your whining.

[Darth Tedious]

Has anyone considered that this might be why Obi-Wan didn't use Force speed?

[emersonlakeandbalmer]

I love how people complain about Obi-Wan not doing this and that in TPM, with little or no regard to the fact that he was still a Padawan and was completely losing his composure as he had never actually fought a Sith before, the most dreaded and feared enemy of the Jedi for like, ever.

"He he fought Darth Vader and cut off his arms and legs!!!" Yeah, douchebag, that was like 15 years later when he was a battle hardened Jedi Master. For fucks sake.

So at first it was because he was tired and couldn't use the force again (which the movie proves wasn't even the case) and now its because he's was a Padawan. I could live with that if at any point his force powers had failed him, but seeing as he defeated the Sith who had just killed a Jedi master he seems more than competent in with his force powers.

Do you defenders like having to change your position to justify all the bad writing? I just don't understand why you can't admit that giving the Jedi super speed was just a bad idea. It's ok to say something didn't make sense in a movie you like.

Wow, you're quite the idiot aren't you. Considering that was my first post in the thread, I don't see how I am changing my position.

As for your argument. I guess you missed the part about losing his composure? You see, that happened BEFORE he defeated the Sith Lord, and BEFORE he took the time to calm himself so that he actually could defeat Maul, but hey, why let a little thing like facts get in the way of your whining.

So you're saying that the reason he didn't use super speed is because he had lost his composure while waiting for the energy fields to come down that Qui-Gon was meditating in front of? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4h3_y7SauA&t=2m26s

Yeah he totally looks out of control just standing there... waiting. Stupid padawan

As for it being your first thread post, welcome to the thread! The topic is a 108 page rebuttal to an internet review of TPM. I recommend you view both that way when you post something you'll have some basic idea where people are in the conversation. I'll bring you up to date since you're new to this thread and might be lost. I was saying that Raynor "seems to want to protect Phantom Menace so badly you will go to great lengths refute the irrefutable. The fast running is a big deal because it is symptomatic of so much that is wrong with TPM. A bad screenplay that could have easily been fixed." See he defended it by saying Obi-Wan was tired from having just exerted himself, to which I pointed out he was wrong about. This is where you come in, stating he's a padawan. Now, this is my fault, I was under the assumption that you had read the thread leading up to this, but I know you fact throwing gunmen can't always be bothered so I'm filling you in now!

Now that you're up to speed (super speed I bet) I assume you agree that the reason he didn't use super speed had nothing to do with being tired and that Raynor's assessment was incorrect.

[emersonlakeandbalmer]

Has anyone considered that this might be why Obi-Wan didn't use Force speed?

Best answer yet!

[Havok]

So at first it was because he was tired and couldn't use the force again (which the movie proves wasn't even the case) and now its because he's was a Padawan. I could live with that if at any point his force powers had failed him, but seeing as he defeated the Sith who had just killed a Jedi master he seems more than competent in with his force powers.

Do you defenders like having to change your position to justify all the bad writing? I just don't understand why you can't admit that giving the Jedi super speed was just a bad idea. It's ok to say something didn't make sense in a movie you like.

Wow, you're quite the idiot aren't you. Considering that was my first post in the thread, I don't see how I am changing my position.

As for your argument. I guess you missed the part about losing his composure? You see, that happened BEFORE he defeated the Sith Lord, and BEFORE he took the time to calm himself so that he actually could defeat Maul, but hey, why let a little thing like facts get in the way of your whining.

So you're saying that the reason he didn't use super speed is because he had lost his composure while waiting for the energy fields to come down that Qui-Gon was meditating in front of? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4h3_y7SauA&t=2m26s

Yeah he totally looks out of control just standing there... waiting. Stupid padawan

Do you think before you type? What was Obi-Wan doing there again? Standing, being anxious, impatiently waiting for the shields to come down so that he could go attack Maul. What was it again that Qui-Gon was doing? Oh wait, you just said it! MEDITATING. Being calm composing himself. Gee, what should Obi-Wan should have been doing?

Are you really this fucking stupid. Obi-Wan was acting like Maul, and until he composed himself, at the brink of his own death, hanging by his fingernails over a fucking bottomless pit (do I need to explain the symbolism as well?) he was clearly not the Padawan that Qui-Gon had trained him to be.

As for it being your first thread post, welcome to the thread! The topic is a 108 page rebuttal to an internet review of TPM. I recommend you view both that way when you post something you'll have some basic idea where people are in the conversation. I'll bring you up to date since you're new to this thread and might be lost. I was saying that Raynor "seems to want to protect Phantom Menace so badly you will go to great lengths refute the irrefutable. The fast running is a big deal because it is symptomatic of so much that is wrong with TPM. A bad screenplay that could have easily been fixed." See he defended it by saying Obi-Wan was tired from having just exerted himself, to which I pointed out he was wrong about. This is where you come in, stating he's a padawan. Now, this is my fault, I was under the assumption that you had read the thread leading up to this, but I know you fact throwing gunmen can't always be bothered so I'm filling you in now!

Don't be a fucking douche. oh wait too late. I wouldn't have commented on this thread if I hadn't been reading it since it fucking started. The stupidity just finally got to me and I felt the need to point out something that I thought 6 year olds could figure out, but apparently I was wrong.

Now that you're up to speed (super speed I bet) I assume you agree that the reason he didn't use super speed had nothing to do with being tired and that Raynor's assessment was incorrect.

Nice try with your little appeal to popularity. Whether I agree with Raynor or not has nothing to do with my fucking post you idiot, as once you figure out reading comprehension, you'll notice I didn't comment on one way or the other.

Win your own arguments douche.

[Bakustra]

You're missing the point. That whole scene is well out of line with the rest of the movies concerning telekinetic strength among the Jedi. But nobody cares. Nobody cares (I sincerely hope) about the super-speed going unused except for you- both scenes used or did not use the powers for dramatic effect. Would you really have preferred if the final battle had been structured around a single, unimportant scene from the opening minutes and every god damn fight scene was either sub-Transformers levels of busyness in scene comp or made heavy use of slo-mo- way to date the effects. Or is your argument that the sole scene with superspeed wrecks TPM permanently, in which case your level of caring about it suggests, frankly, to me, that you need to get some Vitamin D into your life.

This is without going into the inane idea you presented that the Force was presented as unlimited in the OT and that the prequels wrecked it (using terms like "mana bar" to boot) which ranks down there with evolutionary psychology biotruths for stupidity. But I feel charitable today.

Do go on... how is it out of line with telekinetic strength among Jedi?

That question aside. My point was that Jim went to great lengths to defend things that really any normal person should admit was kind of a bad idea. Then on top of that he was just plan wrong in his defense.

The real question is what does cutting the super speed at the begin of TPM cost the viewer? Nothing. What's the dramatic effect of its use in that scene? Nothing. So no. I wouldn't want "a final battle constructed around a single unimportant scene from the opening minutes" I would want that single unimportant scene (not even the scene really just the effect) cut from the film. You, I assume, like single unimportant scenes, which is most likely why you like TPM. It must be all the Vitamin D you're getting.

But not the superspeed isn't what wrecked TPM for me. That would be a combination of Jar Jar, child anakin, "yippee", 6 hour pod races, space taxes, midichlorian, bad guys that sound like racist caricatures, incompetent bad guys, the thousand yard stare on every actor has on their because they're acting next to a tennis ball on a poll, etc, etc

I can't wait to hear how much you guys love Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls and how The Happening is a totally under rated horror master piece.

As for the force and its limits. I'm still waiting to hear when any of the jedi discussed how the powers worked and what their limitation were. If I missed a scene let me know, because anything else is conjecture.

Mana Bar

I see that you're too dumb to get metonymy, but I'll take this as though you understood it anyways. Yes, I get lots of sun, unlike your perverse pride in hiding in momma's basement. Yes, getting plenty of sun makes you less obsessive about tiny details in single scenes in movies. Yes, I am a jock, stuffing you into a metaphysical locker of sorts. (PS: "Vitamin D" in this sentence is a metonymous reference to sunlight, you ignorant buffoon).

Secondly, the scene involves lifting an X-wing. Nobody else lifts anything close to what an X-wing should weigh, unless in Star Wars they make everything out of styrofoam. All other telekinesis is relatively small (compared to the X-wing) metallic objects and individual humans (as well as crushing their necks) which requires less work than moving the X-wing unless they're unreasonably dense too.

Now, normal people don't assume things are unlimited until told otherwise, and we see Yoda look exhausted after lifting the X-wing and Luke strain himself while pulling up his lightsaber in the same movie. But you need an expository conversation to tell you "gee we Jedis can sure get tired sometime, right?". I mean, you bring up Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (which is better than Temple of Doom and doesn't give people Tay-Sachs, sorry) and The Happening, and without my knowledge of those two films and going by what you just said, I'd have to assume that they weren't slow-paced and exposition-heavy enough for you, and so I might go and look for them, since most people don't consider the combination of those two factors a sign of quality in a movie.

I'm not sure why you hate midichlorians so much, either- oh, it's because the exposition on them was brief and left most of it up to the viewer to interpret. You also hate that there's taxation in space in a universe that specifically draws on history for inspiration, so even if you're a post-scarcity singularitarian whackjob, you should ideally be able to appreciate a universe that isn't supposed to be a "blueprint of the future", but nope, you're dumber than that.

[Loup Garou]

Secondly, the scene involves lifting an X-wing. Nobody else lifts anything close to what an X-wing should weigh, unless in Star Wars they make everything out of styrofoam. All other telekinesis is relatively small (compared to the X-wing) metallic objects and individual humans (as well as crushing their necks) which requires less work than moving the X-wing unless they're unreasonably dense too.

You completely miss the point of that scene. Yoda was showing Luke that where the force is concerned size is irrelevent.

Now, normal people don't assume things are unlimited until told otherwise, and we see Yoda look exhausted after lifting the X-wing and Luke strain himself while pulling up his lightsaber in the same movie. But you need an expository conversation to tell you "gee we Jedis can sure get tired sometime, right?".

Except that yoda didn't look that exhausted, and even if he was tired by the excercise I'd attribute it to the fact that he's better then 800 years old before "Tie fighter is heavy".

I'm not sure why you hate midichlorians so much, either- oh, it's because the exposition on them was brief and left most of it up to the viewer to interpret.

Personally, I hate it because it transformed the force from being this awe inspiring mystical energy field that a handful of people had the strength of will to interact with to "over abundance of single celled organisms in the blood stream".

You also hate that there's taxation in space in a universe that specifically draws on history for inspiration, so even if you're a post-scarcity singularitarian whackjob

I hate it because it seems like an ill concieved plot that is never properly explained. Like, how are the taxes impacting the trade federation? How is blockading a planet that appears to have no industrial exports nor essential needs (food, water, medicine, clean air, ect.) actually accomplishing anything?

[emersonlakeandbalmer]

Do you think before you type? What was Obi-Wan doing there again? Standing, being anxious, impatiently waiting for the shields to come down so that he could go attack Maul. What was it again that Qui-Gon was doing? Oh wait, you just said it! MEDITATING. Being calm composing himself. Gee, what should Obi-Wan should have been doing?

Are you really this fucking stupid. Obi-Wan was acting like Maul, and until he composed himself, at the brink of his own death, hanging by his fingernails over a fucking bottomless pit (do I need to explain the symbolism as well?) he was clearly not the Padawan that Qui-Gon had trained him to be.

So Obi couldn't use his force powers because he was anxious and Qui-Gon could because he was meditating. Then shouldn't Qui-Gon have defeated Maul? I mean he was so composed he grabbed a seat and took a nap. And if you really want to get into it we can talk about how dumb it is that Maul just stood there while Obi-Wan jumped over him.

As for it being your first thread post, welcome to the thread! The topic is a 108 page rebuttal to an internet review of TPM. I recommend you view both that way when you post something you'll have some basic idea where people are in the conversation. I'll bring you up to date since you're new to this thread and might be lost. I was saying that Raynor "seems to want to protect Phantom Menace so badly you will go to great lengths refute the irrefutable. The fast running is a big deal because it is symptomatic of so much that is wrong with TPM. A bad screenplay that could have easily been fixed." See he defended it by saying Obi-Wan was tired from having just exerted himself, to which I pointed out he was wrong about. This is where you come in, stating he's a padawan. Now, this is my fault, I was under the assumption that you had read the thread leading up to this, but I know you fact throwing gunmen can't always be bothered so I'm filling you in now!

Don't be a fucking douche. oh wait too late. I wouldn't have commented on this thread if I hadn't been reading it since it fucking started. The stupidity just finally got to me and I felt the need to point out something that I thought 6 year olds could figure out, but apparently I was wrong.

You're so feisty. It's adorable. I agree, what you pointed out is right in line with a 6 year old's thought process.

Now that you're up to speed (super speed I bet) I assume you agree that the reason he didn't use super speed had nothing to do with being tired and that Raynor's assessment was incorrect.

Nice try with your little appeal to popularity. Whether I agree with Raynor or not has nothing to do with my fucking post you idiot, as once you figure out reading comprehension, you'll notice I didn't comment on one way or the other.

Win your own arguments douche.

Thanks I'm glad you backed up my assessment!