Lawmakers pass state firearm bill
February 11th, 2011 @ 4:00pm
By Amanda Verzello
SALT LAKE CITY -- An automatic pistol is just one step away from joining the honeybee and sego lily as official Beehive State symbols.
The House concurred Friday with the amendment the Senate made to the bill. The Senate altered the bill's wording from John. M Browning "model" M1911 automatic pistol to "designed" after it realized Browning never manufactured a M1911.
Before the vote, Minority Assistant Whip Brian King, D-Salt Lake, read a letter from Browning's grandson, Robert Pack Browning, opposing the bill. The House consented to the amendment, 48-20.
The bill now goes to Gov. Gary Herbert for his action
All the problems we have, and they do this.
Not that I don't like the 1911, hell I have a whole closet of guns, but...
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
So, they're voting for a "state pistol"? Yeah I gotta say, that is fucked up, and to top it all off this bunch of gun loving Republitards don't even know who Built the 1911. They apparently know just as much about the guns they love as they do "family values".
Courage is not the absence of fear, but the conquering of it.
And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
-Anais Nin
mingo wrote:So, they're voting for a "state pistol"? Yeah I gotta say, that is fucked up, and to top it all off this bunch of gun loving Republitards don't even know who Built the 1911. They apparently know just as much about the guns they love as they do "family values".
John Moses Browning built/invented the 1911. He was from the city of Ogden Utah and many 1911's were built in Ogden. Seems to make a lot of sense to honor one of the most influential weapons in history invented by a resident of the state of Utah. Why is honoring J M Browning in such a way stupid?
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When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
The Prince of The Writer's Guild|HAB Spacewolf Tank General| God Bless America!
Seems to me if you have to have a state sidearm manufactured by JMB, pbuh, the Hi-Power would be a better choice. May not have ever been manufactured in Ogden, but damn if it's not a fine pistol.
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A
Isolder74 wrote:
John Moses Browning built/invented the 1911. He was from the city of Ogden Utah and many 1911's were built in Ogden. Seems to make a lot of sense to honor one of the most influential weapons in history invented by a resident of the state of Utah. Why is honoring J M Browning in such a way stupid?
-Why does J M Browning need to be honored?
-If the explanation to the above is sufficient, why can't there be a bill expressing gratitude and why does the state have to name a "state firearm"
-If the explanation to the above is sufficient, do you really think it's a good idea in the wake of what happened in Tuscon to really be glorifying guns in this way?
Sounds like a waste of taxpayers dollars to me, which is what the Republicans are supposedly getting elected to prevent.
"If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little." -George Carlin (1937-2008)
"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting." -Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
Darth Fanboy wrote:-Why does J M Browning need to be honored?
Frankly, it's the prerogative of a state and the voting public to choose to honor whom they wish. If you are the sort of person who deeply appreciates firearm history, then John Browning is a name whose stature to you is as significant as that of Albert Einstein, or Nicola Tesla.
-If the explanation to the above is sufficient, why can't there be a bill expressing gratitude and why does the state have to name a "state firearm."
The decision to honor someone is a subjective one; therefor there can be no convincing someone who does not like the idea that there are "objectively sufficient" reasons for honoring someone. Taking it subjectively that the voters of the good state of Utah and their elected officials have deemed John Browning worthy of honoring, then naming one of his most famous inventions the state firearm is a very effective means of bestowing that honor; much as the state of Michigan might decide to honor Henry Ford by naming the Ford Model T the official state automobile.
-If the explanation to the above is sufficient, do you really think it's a good idea in the wake of what happened in Tuscon to really be glorifying guns in this way?
I think it's a good idea not to let acts of terrorism, domestic or foreign, influence your decision-making, else the terrorists have won.
Sounds like a waste of taxpayers dollars to me, which is what the Republicans are supposedly getting elected to prevent.
Oh, unquestionably. But honestly, how much money is this wasting? Even if they redesign the seal of the state of Utah (which they're almost certainly not going to do,) it wouldn't cost all that much. This? This is just politicians blowharding about how much they love to wank to guns and declaring a gun the state's gun.
It's a waste of cash, but on a governmental level this is akin to pissing away $5.00 to make some kind of small gesture. Yes, Republitards should be opposed to it, but we all know they're not opposed to spending money, just opposed to spending it on poor people.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Dude...
Way to overwork a metaphor Shadow. I feel really creeped out now.
I am an artist, metaphorical mind-fucks are my medium.
loomer wrote:Seems to me if you have to have a state sidearm manufactured by JMB, pbuh, the Hi-Power would be a better choice. May not have ever been manufactured in Ogden, but damn if it's not a fine pistol.
A number of firearms enthusiasts are extremely disdainful of 9mm Parabellum for being smaller than .45. That might be something to do with it.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
ShadowDragonNumbers wrote:
Frankly, it's the prerogative of a state and the voting public to choose to honor whom they wish. If you are the sort of person who deeply appreciates firearm history, then John Browning is a name whose stature to you is as significant as that of Albert Einstein, or Nicola Tesla.
And where are the Einstein and Tesla days? Is firearm history worth wasting all this time in a state legislature? Oh wait I forgot, guns are cool therefore it's ok to waste taxpayer dollars. You're forgetting that the voting public isn't having a say in this, and i'm pretty damn sure the voting public would rather the state legislators working on keeping the state in order than honoring firearms.
-
The decision to honor someone is a subjective one; therefor there can be no convincing someone who does not like the idea that there are "objectively sufficient" reasons for honoring someone. Taking it subjectively that the voters of the good state of Utah and their elected officials have deemed John Browning worthy of honoring, then naming one of his most famous inventions the state firearm is a very effective means of bestowing that honor; much as the state of Michigan might decide to honor Henry Ford by naming the Ford Model T the official state automobile.
Why do you think that the public had a say in this again?
You have still failed to address how this honoring is sufficiently important that state lawmakers should be spending their time and public tax dollars on the subject.
I think it's a good idea not to let acts of terrorism, domestic or foreign, influence your decision-making, else the terrorists have won.
Congratulations, you've sucessfully bought into the post 9/11 Republican propaganda.
Oh, unquestionably. But honestly, how much money is this wasting? Even if they redesign the seal of the state of Utah (which they're almost certainly not going to do,) it wouldn't cost all that much. This? This is just politicians blowharding about how much they love to wank to guns and declaring a gun the state's gun.
Which is pretty fucking stupid, which is the whole point of my previous post and i'm bewildered as to why you would go to any length to defend the support when you have just AGREED that it is a waste of time and money. In an era of American Politics where both sides are accusing the other of wasting the public's time, money, and patience is this really the wisest thing to do?
It's a waste of cash, but on a governmental level this is akin to pissing away $5.00 to make some kind of small gesture. Yes, Republitards should be opposed to it, but we all know they're not opposed to spending money, just opposed to spending it on poor people.
So you agree that it's a waste (my whole point to begin with) and yet you still launch into a defense of it? It's like you don't feel you've convinced every last person on this board you're a complete idiot yet.
"If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little." -George Carlin (1937-2008)
"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting." -Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
How's this fundamentally any different from that big long debate a few years ago on if they should make a new state flag and motto as well as change the state dinosaur?
ambosen wrote:How's this fundamentally any different from that big long debate a few years ago on if they should make a new state flag and motto as well as change the state dinosaur?
We have bigger fish to fry. The Utah State legislature is only in session something like 45 days a year, yes the Governor can ask for a special session to add onto that, but otherwise they have 45 days to fix our budgetary problems, fund the schools, and waste that time debating a State Gun Bill. Same full.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
You are aware that under the state constitution, as well as in application, all the Senate really does dobget wise is make budgetary recommendations to the House when it comes to financial matters, right? The house sets taxes, appropriations, bonds, ect. And it's pretty rare for the Senate to ever settle for 45 days actually being at the capital, debating legislation ranging from the actually important to piss trivial or even pointless. Tends to make it difficult to fit in all those committee meetings, especially the unnecessary ones, simply so the Democrats and Republicans can take turns actively blaming each other for everything from the fact Utah's one of only a handful of US states to ever have a budget surplus.
You are aware that under the state constitution, as well as in application, all the Senate really does dobget wise is make budgetary recommendations to the House when it comes to financial matters, right? The house sets taxes, appropriations, bonds, ect. And it's pretty rare for the Senate to ever settle for 45 days actually being at the capital, debating legislation ranging from the actually important to piss trivial or even pointless. Tends to make it difficult to fit in all those committee meetings, especially the unnecessary ones, simply so the Democrats and Republicans can take turns actively blaming each other for everything from the fact Utah's one of only a handful of US states to ever have a budget surplus.
So, because they come up with recommendations and not actual legislation means they should fill up their time with bullshit that doesn't matter one way or another? Yea, I don't think so. And, this isn't a GOPer/Demo thing, this is a waste of time thing. If the State is running smoothly and our budget deficits aren't being filled by Federal cash, our schools are funded and our kids are placing really high on a national level, if not international level, if our jobless rate was really fucking low; I'm ok with them doing symbolic things like this sense it matters not.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
His Divine Shadow wrote:I thought this was pretty a cool thing (also a 1911 owner), though I suppose that yes it was a waste of time.
My complaint isn't an anti-gun thing. I'm actually found of the M1911. It is a waste of time thing. Politicians can do symbolic and ego stroking things when the state isn't in the shitter.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
And why should we be paying 11% extra of our budget for extra schools on the upper east side of salt lake when we're having a record low number of new school enrollees this year. with the number of new enrollees in that area this year actually dropping to the point they're having difficulty even justifying some of those schools being open to begin with? That's right, only 14,000 kids are entering school in the entire state this year. About 26,000 entered last year. The year previous to that? 63,000 or so.
In a state of nearly 3 million people, almost half of which are under 25, that's still a fairly small statistic. And why's the budget for education going down by 11%? Because, like it or not, when you have one of the largest educational budgets in the US, one that's actually larger then that of some countries, that generally means you're spending money you don't need or have to spend on something that isn't necessary.
By the way: Utah's education budget *is* about 80% of the overall state budget. Surprisingly enough, very few if any other states or areas with populations as small as ours are spending billions allegedly on education. And whether you like it or not, a lot of claimed educational spending in Utah is just budget padding and earmarks. That remaining 20% of the budget has to cover everything from the police forces, fire departments, state contributions towards the social security and medicare allottments, keeping a severely under equipped yet still often deployed national guard contingent able to run in operations the Federal government keeps sending them out for both in a combat and non combat capacity, ect.
The state of Utah had 35 new schools scheduled to open last year: Of those, thus far only 5 have actually had land purchased and are in the process of being built or completed. Granite school district still managed to get yet another new office building, which you know is pretty odd, because the superintendent and a lot of other school officials still haven't left the old one. In comparison?
Utah's closed three schools in the last year of five they'd allegedly decided to. Two of them due to suspicious fires classified as arson, one because it wasn't deemed structurally stable, and they built a new school nearby to replace it, because they felt it to be cheaper in the long run.
Don't tell me Utah doesn't spend enough on education, okay? I know better. I was born and raised here, spent virtually all of my life here, in this very state. I have gone to both some of the best, and worst schools in the state. If the state department of education with the funding allocated to it by the state of Utah can allocate nearly a 120 million for a new office building that's not even being used, but somehow can't come up with the money to get current textbooks outside of a handful of schools on the upper east side which are struggling to enroll enough students to even justify remaining open because most of the rich people are sending their kids to private schools anyways, it's not a lack of budget that's the problem, it's a lack of priorities on the part of the people that money is being turned over to.
Once you take a good hard look at how that money's being spent, it's easy to find wasteful, or dubious at best spending, especially by the individual school districts. You may not know this, but Bingham High school managed to allot 15 million dollars for structural repairs during a year no actual structural repairs were made. This passed completely without comment except by some of the students and their parents. It was deemed a non issue for three years, until a student took pictures of among other things, load bearing walls that were buckling inwards on both the ground andf second floors of the building, bathroom stalls which couldn't even be used because they were collapsed, and windows and display cases full of broken glass that hadn't even been swept up. This was in one of the schools the state of Utah spends the most on every year, Knife, and if you hadn't gone there and seen it yourself like I had, you'd have been more ready to believe of a school in Chicago or Detroit, then one of the most expensive to operate in Utah.
By the way: the Jordan school district was ordered by the state to either make those repairs or shut Bingham high school down shortly after those photos got published in late 2003. It's eight years later, and the Jordan school district still hasn't managed to make all the required repairs for the building to be up to code. One of the things they're debating on the education budget is another extension, and now instead of the less then 8 million it took to build the school in the first place, almost 45 million to make needed structural repairs...
Repairs that should've been made in 2001.
Any time you complain about educational funding being cut in the state of Utah, you need to be aware quite a bit of that spending can't be accounted for without some fairly intensive research. Blind loyalty to government programs without verifying they're actually doing what they're supposed to helps noone.
lol, cause a couple schools tried to scam the system totally balances out for North Salt Lake, Bountiful, Centerville, Farmington, Kaysville, Layton, Clearfield, Syracuse, Clinton, Sunset, Roy, West Valley, Manta, Tooele, Provo, Harrington, Riverton, Eagle Mountain, American Fork, Spanish Fork, and a shit ton of in between towns exploding in population and suburban sprawl than then need elementries, jr high schools, and high schools. But no, those can't be the reasons, only can worry about a couple rich schools in the rich Salt Lake City district.
lol, you're funny.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
Just to prove that idiocy is infectious, Arizona's state senate has introduced a measure to make the Colt Single Action Army Arizona's official state firearm. Clearly, Arizona's legislators are feeling penis gun envy for their neighbors up north.
Meh, we got state bird, trees, flowers, foods, and god only knows what the fuck else. I'm not really seeing why a state handgun is a big deal. Hell, if it was up to me I'd make the 1911 the official handgun of the United States and re-do the Statue of Liberty with a 1911 holstered on her hip.
Edit: I'd also redo the text on Lady Liberty's book to say "Be polite, be respectful, and keep your fucking hands where I can see them."
Goddammit, now I'm forced to say in public that I agree with Mr. Coffee. - Mike Wong
I never would have thought I would wholeheartedly agree with Coffee... - fgalkin x2
Honestly, this board is so fucking stupid at times. - Thanas GALEForceCarwash: Oh, I'll wax that shit, bitch...
Knife wrote:lol, cause a couple schools tried to scam the system totally balances out for North Salt Lake, Bountiful, Centerville, Farmington, Kaysville, Layton, Clearfield, Syracuse, Clinton, Sunset, Roy, West Valley, Manta, Tooele, Provo, Harrington, Riverton, Eagle Mountain, American Fork, Spanish Fork, and a shit ton of in between towns exploding in population and suburban sprawl than then need elementries, jr high schools, and high schools. But no, those can't be the reasons, only can worry about a couple rich schools in the rich Salt Lake City district.
I'm sorry but I'm part of that enlightened minority that believes access to equal education is important, and not speeches from the corrupt officials currently denying it. Until you've had to ride a bike 3 hours early to school only for some students from Woods Cross or Olympus who got bus service down there for an event and how they're entire school is going to have the chance to go to Calais later in the week (to clarify, this is a city in France that the school is paying for) and your last field trip was in the second grade to a local dairy farm, you won't start to realize just how widespread corruption is in the school educational system.
I did that 3 hour long bike ride for 10 of the 13 years I was in school, simply to get to school, while Granite and Jordan school district debated shutting down the two schools closest to me to allow more funding for the shrinking areas of Salt lake and the inner valley.
By the way: I lived in Erta. Might not mean anything to you, but it's a rapidly growing section of the state which was promised a school by the state over 115 years ago. It still doesn't have one, largely because significant portions of the state educational budget go to ensuring Woods Cross and Olympus, and other schools located in the more fashionable sections of the inner salt lake valley continue to get roughly 26 times more spent on their education then any students in more "rural" areas of the state.
I'm paying taxes to keep little shits like you going to field trips my own kids will never get the oppertunity to even go on with the budget as you people would want it implemented. So how about you get off your god damned ass and actually learn what taxpayer money is buying. Because sure as hell it's not equal access to education, despite just how large the state educational budget is even in comparison to other, larger states.
