TPM: what if Anakin were in his mid teens?

[TheHammer]

So TPM was on basic cable the other day. Watched parts of it, and got to thinking. The fact that Anakin at nine years old was so adept, force or not, at building and maintaining complicated machines such as pod racers and protocol droids just really seemed beyond suspension of disbelief for me. He couldn't have even begun working on such things more than a year or two earlier. Not to mention that the whole future romance between Anakin and Amidala is not even able to be hinted at all because of the age gap. Beyond all that, the Jedi council saying he was too old to train, when we see Padiwans in ATOC around the same age doing very basic Jedi training with Yoda its not as if he were entering kindergarten class at the age of a middleschooler.

The movie would have worked a lot better if Anakin had been portrayed as older - Say in his mid teens (15,16), closer to Luke's age in ANH. You wouldn't even have to change much of the dialogue, much of it seemed to come from someone far older than the 9 year old on screen anyway. Then his hobbies and abilities would seem to be much more believable as someone who'd worked and tinkered in Watto's shop for much of his life. The age gap between him and Amidala much smaller, thus the future romance could have been teased a bit without being overly creepy. And the notion that he is "too old to be trained" would be much more believable. All the other scenes still work just fine, and in fact better - the Pod racing scenes, the fighter scenes at the end of the movie. All of it.

Hell, you could have have still had Hayden Christensen portray this younger Anakin. Then cast an older, better actor for AOTC and ROTS.

[Agent Sorchus]

Partly the sheer youth of Anakin is a problem, true, but also the weakness of the pathos they inflict on him for the sake of the story. This is the first time we see slaves (outside of Leia and the other girls in RoTJ) and it is underwhelming and barely deserving of being called slavery. And it doesn't really give Anakin a reason to care about the Invassion of Naboo.

On the other hand making Anakin too old and you can't tell the tale of how his youth made him grow to be the person who embraced the Darkside latter on. I have seen people say to make him Luke's age (~19) and a great fighter pilot of Naboo who is fighting the occupation, but that gives us no idea of what is normal. Part of building the myth structure is showing the normal life and why the characters can never go back to it.

On the whole I think a 13-15 year old Anakin wouldn't be a bad thing, but more importantly give him a better backstory than slave lol. Make him a refugee who has been hurt by the Trade Federation's wars and someone who has legitimate angst at the villains. You also do not have to have the ten year split that happened between TPM and AotC, so the age thing isn't important and things are more fresh in the characters minds.

Also for the sake of the prequels build the villains up better.

[Darth Tedious]

I think early teens could have worked quite well. His background could have been the same, but with a little more cruelty in the slavery. It would have definitely been able to hint towards the future romance better, particularly with some more sympathy from Padme (seeing a brutally oppressed adolescant rather than a cute but fairly well-treated kid).
Making him feel to much angst would have gone against the feel of making Anakin an anti-villain. He was turned to evil by love and compassion (worry for his mother, worry for Padme) instead of being turned to evil by anger and hate. I feel it worked that way, but that's only my subjective opinion.

Also for the sake of the prequels build the villains up better.

It would have been nice, especially for Darth Maul. Although, the OT had a little of the same problem, mostly in the case of Boba Fett. At least the prequels gave him some more characterisation!

[Knife]

You can substitute childhood he can't go back to, to a peaceful setting on Naboo (which they tried to do anyway) they can't go back to. I really do think they could tighten up the story of the Prequels if they'd had Anakin late teen/early twenty something from Naboo. Already gives him a reason to care about both the invasion of Naboo, and a good reason to fall head over heels for the Queen. It also speed along the Clone Wars plot and Palpatines plot. Paply's first move was Naboo and getting his Chancilorship, followed a 'couple years later' with the Clone Wars instead of a decade. Still makes Anakin under 25 by onset of the war, still believable that he's brash and impulsive, young enough to have Palpy influence him.

But Lucas didn't.... oh well.

[Agent Sorchus]

It isn't that Anakin should simply hate the Trade Federation because he is a refugee, not all refugees hate those that war and it still is a better thing than to be in the middle of a war zone. No Anakin needs to feel emotions, all of them. Sympathy and an understanding that war is hell, so that when Palpatine offers him the easy way to end the war he takes it even though it means sacrificing his Jedi training and giving no quarter to the CIS. Hate isn't the be all and end all of what Anakin should feel, yet that is exactly what the prequels have in it. Well that and emotional dependency, with the barest nod to real friendship with Obiwan.

[ronindave]

For the type of story the Prequels are (or should have been) it would have fit to have an older Anakin. The best would have to been to mirror ANH and have him around 17-18. Then we'd have a character who can more understand choices and consequences something kids don't. And we would have been spared a couple of yippee's.

[TheHammer]

You can substitute childhood he can't go back to, to a peaceful setting on Naboo (which they tried to do anyway) they can't go back to. I really do think they could tighten up the story of the Prequels if they'd had Anakin late teen/early twenty something from Naboo. Already gives him a reason to care about both the invasion of Naboo, and a good reason to fall head over heels for the Queen. It also speed along the Clone Wars plot and Palpatines plot. Paply's first move was Naboo and getting his Chancilorship, followed a 'couple years later' with the Clone Wars instead of a decade. Still makes Anakin under 25 by onset of the war, still believable that he's brash and impulsive, young enough to have Palpy influence him.

But Lucas didn't.... oh well.

I don't think a teenage boy would need much of a reason to fall head over heels for the queen, other than she's hot and she's a queen . Hell, Luke fell for his sister for pretty much that reason alone.

The 10 year split I don't mind so much, because it would imply that Anakin's Jedi training took place over those years. Maybe it doesn't need to be 10 years exactly, but having a significant time split isn't a bad thing neccessarily. Would also establish the time for which Palpy gets to offer his "guidance".

Age wouldn't be a factor, after all Dooku fell under Palpy's influence and he certainly was picking up the senior citizen's discount at Denny's. Brashness, and failure to have full control of his emotions is a core flaw of Anakins. So even an early to mid 30's Anakin, motivated by a clouded vision that he was "doing the right thing" could still easily be influenced by Palpatine.

Like I said, I just think it works better even in the movie as it was to simply make him older. The Pod racing could still be the basis for being a "great pilot", and Obi Wan being "amazed how strong the force was with him". As it was, I was very underwhelmed by Anakins initial display of force prowess. But thats another story entirely.

[adam_grif]

My proposal was that Anakin was 17/18 and a very promising rookie fighter pilot in the naboo self defense force or something. Probably still in training due to his age. This would eliminate the extremely shitty tatooine sections and make the "and he was a great pilot when I met him" line from Obi more believable. Let's not forget the 9 year old lusting after Natalie Portman shit. Finally, it makes it so it doesn't sound as creepy and weird when the Jedi Council talks about a 9 year old boy as "too old to begin Jedi training".

You can still keep the tatooine connection going in that he was a former slave freed by someone and brought to naboo earlier in his life if that is really functionally necessary to the second film.

[Knife]

If anything, the Tatooine connection isn't necessary and should have been cut out of TPM. Pretty sure the original SW novelization, or maybe the script, had Uncle Owens Ben's brother, should have kept that dynamic and drop a line some where in the first two movies about Obi Wan's brother farming water on a backwater world; then have Obi Wan have an epiphany in RotS to hide Luke there. No need for Tattooine really in the prequels, but that's my personal opinion.

[TheHammer]

My proposal was that Anakin was 17/18 and a very promising rookie fighter pilot in the naboo self defense force or something. Probably still in training due to his age. This would eliminate the extremely shitty tatooine sections and make the "and he was a great pilot when I met him" line from Obi more believable. Let's not forget the 9 year old lusting after Natalie Portman shit. Finally, it makes it so it doesn't sound as creepy and weird when the Jedi Council talks about a 9 year old boy as "too old to begin Jedi training".

You can still keep the tatooine connection going in that he was a former slave freed by someone and brought to naboo earlier in his life if that is really functionally necessary to the second film.

If anything, the Tatooine connection isn't necessary and should have been cut out of TPM. Pretty sure the original SW novelization, or maybe the script, had Uncle Owens Ben's brother, should have kept that dynamic and drop a line some where in the first two movies about Obi Wan's brother farming water on a backwater world; then have Obi Wan have an epiphany in RotS to hide Luke there. No need for Tattooine really in the prequels, but that's my personal opinion.

I could take or leave the whole Tatooine connection. Or Naboo for that matter. It was kind of a waste that they didn't introduce a third planet, one we haven't seen before. It could still be harsh conditions, slavery and the like. Pod Racing etc, but wouldn't seem as forced as everything else.

But the main point I was trying to raise was not to change absolutely everything, just that changing this one aspect, even if you left every scene the same, that the movie would have worked better. It was his age that simply made it overly hard for me to suspend disbelief. A 15 or 16 year old who's tinkered with things all his life able to build a racing pod? I could possibly believe that, given that he probably got an early start working in Watto's shop. But honestly, the way they portrayed it it was like a nine year old building a NASCAR stock car out of old parts. AND being able to pilot it with the same skill, including fixing complex problems during the race, with the same precision as beings much older and more experienced. And the romance thing, and the "accidentally destroying the Naboo ship". If he'd gotten into the fight by his own wits, and used his crude force skills to help him I just think it would have been so much better. But anyway, I think I'm beating a dead horse.

[Guardsman Bass]

I'm iffy on the idea of setting Anakin up as a mid-teens protagonist when we first see him. One of the things that the novelization emphasizes is that Anakin being taken from his mother is a big part of his fear and anxieties over loss, and that he didn't really have a good childhood - as compared to Luke, who had a good (if boring) childhood with his aunt and uncle.

If anything, the Tatooine connection isn't necessary and should have been cut out of TPM. Pretty sure the original SW novelization, or maybe the script, had Uncle Owens Ben's brother, should have kept that dynamic and drop a line some where in the first two movies about Obi Wan's brother farming water on a backwater world; then have Obi Wan have an epiphany in RotS to hide Luke there. No need for Tattooine really in the prequels, but that's my personal opinion.

I thought the point of hiding Luke on Tatooine was precisely because it was a place that Anakin would never go back to if he couldn't help it. He'd never think that his old master would be hiding there.

On the other hand, if it's the place for Obi-Wan's brother, then I think that it would be an unlikely place for Obi-Wan to hide Luke. Obi-Wan's known family would be among the first to be targeted by Palpatine and his anti-Jedi hunters.

[Darth Tedious]

If anything, the Tatooine connection isn't necessary and should have been cut out of TPM. Pretty sure the original SW novelization, or maybe the script, had Uncle Owens Ben's brother, should have kept that dynamic and drop a line some where in the first two movies about Obi Wan's brother farming water on a backwater world; then have Obi Wan have an epiphany in RotS to hide Luke there. No need for Tattooine really in the prequels, but that's my personal opinion.

If Tattoine hadn't been used, something else would have to be substituted into the place of the Tusken Raiders. I think the incident in AotC was a pretty important step in Anakin's fall.

[Havok]

I like Knife's idea on putting him on Naboo.

Anyway, an older Anakin would have worked better in my opinion because it gives him some more time to learn to despise the situation he is in. If you look at Anakin's actions in TPM, he is an awesome kid. He doesn't have any problems, especially not the type you would associate with someone that was brought up as a slave. Hell, he even makes light of the bomb that is inside him.

He certainly doesn't show the anger that everyone is talking about later on in the movies. If Lucas had kept the scene where he beats up little Greedo, maybe that may have helped, but of course, the one time having a tie to the OT would have actually benefited the story (giving Greedo some background and showing Anakin's anger) Lucas edited that part out.

You do an older Anakin, one who's mother has died already, who is forced to race pods by Watto (who should have been, and would be in this scenario, a much more sinister character) and who is constantly showing his anger because of his upbringing. Then as the movie progresses you have him be far more proactive in the actual fighting of the Trade Federation. Have him join the pilots on his own and show of his actual skill Obi-Wan alluded to in the OT and even do the 'this is a lightsaber. It is the weapon of a Jedi Knight' thing with Qui-Gon. (which then also adds more symmetry to the father/son angle when Luke gets his the same way later as to how they both became Jedi)

You can show him truly bristling with anger as the Jedi turn him down, and you have him in the last scene in the tower with Yoda and Obi-Wan almost forcing his way into the Jedi Order on the last wish of Qui-Gon. You also can establish a resentment between an older Anakin and Obi-Wan, blaming him for Qui-Gon's death, the first father figure in his life he trusted.

It just allows for so much more.

[aussiemuscle308]

about Obi Wan's brother farming water on a backwater world; then have Obi Wan have an epiphany in RotS to hide Luke there. No need for Tattooine really in the prequels, but that's my personal opinion.

That sounds better than Annakin forgetting about the owens family when he became darth vader. where else would they have stashed his son? it'd be the first few places you'd look.
you'd also need to rework Anni's fall to the dark side. i equate it to a priest finally deciding/realising that religion is crap and abandoning his way of life, so it's not something that would happen easily. maybe if he thought Obi-wan killed padme that might make him angry enough to blow away the jedi...

[Metahive]

If Tattoine hadn't been used, something else would have to be substituted into the place of the Tusken Raiders. I think the incident in AotC was a pretty important step in Anakin's fall.

Not so sure about that. The purpose of the scene was presumably to show that Anakin is capable of great atrocities if sufficiently pushed, but then he goes on and slaughters children in ROTS just because Palpatine asked him to do it. The Jedi haven't hurt Anakin in the way the Tusken did, his pet-obsession Amidala wasn't in any immediate danger and yet he commits deplorable acts of murder and is even completely calm and composed while doing so. The latter scene completely undermines the former as it shows that Anakin's tragic flaw isn't that he's overly emotional, no, he's a murderous psycho, period.

[TheHammer]

about Obi Wan's brother farming water on a backwater world; then have Obi Wan have an epiphany in RotS to hide Luke there. No need for Tattooine really in the prequels, but that's my personal opinion.

That sounds better than Annakin forgetting about the owens family when he became darth vader. where else would they have stashed his son? it'd be the first few places you'd look.
you'd also need to rework Anni's fall to the dark side. i equate it to a priest finally deciding/realising that religion is crap and abandoning his way of life, so it's not something that would happen easily. maybe if he thought Obi-wan killed padme that might make him angry enough to blow away the jedi...

Well, he didn't know he had a son remember? Or a daughter for that matter. I think the Owens at the very least needed to have had some personal knowledge of Anakin, given that in ANH they discuss him as if they knew him fairly well. How that should have been accomplished is up for debate.

You know what? It seems like we're seeing lots of "series reboots" lately, mostly around the Comic Books. Maybe Lucas, or whoever ends up with control of the franchise down the road, will see the light and reboot Star Wars...

[Coyote]

Having him be on Naboo works really well.

Maybe a 16-17 year old kid, full of fight, does his pod racing or working at a shop with hotrod ships or hoppers... basically one of those grease-monkey types that hangs with the "wrong" crowd (for Naboo) and like every kid his age has a crush on the far-off, distant Queen.

Maybe for the invasion, he is in the resistance and becomes instrumental in helping the Queen and Jedi break back into the Palace, where Qui-Gonn notices this scruffy wrench-turner has the Force and doesn't know it, and the kid ends up with a handful of other pilots, hastily assembled in a scratch force, saving the day in a less stupid way than portrayed.

And even if you want to keep him as "conceived by the Force" for some wacky "prophesy" ( ) it still works: Palpatine, the greatest evil the Galaxy has ever known, is climbing to the top of the political heap from quiet little Naboo; the Force, in its way, brings Anakin into life to counter this-- but some tragedy causes him to make a wrong choice and he ends up going bad in a later movie. Anakin's mother died when he was a kid; that whole character can be done away with.

[adam_grif]

Why are you people trying to keep Pod racing? Safely cutting the pod race is one of the best parts about having him on Naboo instead of Tatooine

Also the stuff about Anakin being conceived by the force is kind of dumb and I wish it was never included. Don't explain why he's strong with the force, or if you have to, then say he was the love child of a Jedi master or some shit. Or if you really want to troll the fanbase, the son of Palpatine

[Ryushikaze]

I have an idea.

Age Ani up. Have US meet him at age 14-15. But have Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan meet him much younger. Introduce him as being a former slave whose mother basically scrimped and saved and sacrificed her own freedom to buy his so he could go and join the Order, where he trained under Qui-Gon, maybe with, maybe not with Obi-Wan.

In short, we should have Joined Anikin as Padawan already, about Padme's own age or a smidge older. In this case, we shouldn't see that he's a slave, we should feel from him what he felt slavery was like, see how he reacts to injustice, to figuring out their only safe port is the only place he never wants to go again for how it makes him feel, even though he wants to free his mother from her own slavery (this is how you can shoehorn a podrace or being an excellent fighter pilot segment up for later when his skills, not his blundering, aid in the final confrontation, plus it also sets up his reaction to her death as feeling more culpable since he got her free so she could marry the poor man she loved who could never buy her freedom, which leads to her death at the hands of the Tuskens).

Make us meet him later, but set up the important story bits of slavery and being taken from his mother at the same age he was in TPM originally. Just make those things expressed rather than things we see.

[TheHammer]

Well, at this point then you are talking a major re-write of the movie. My contention is that you could essentially keep the movie as is, most of the same scenes etc, just make Anakin a little older. The dialouge wouldn't seem as contrived coming from a mid teen. The pod racing, "romance", and fighter scenes all make more sense. The "too old to begin the training" makes more sense. Hell, you could even keep the cut scene of Akakin fighting greedo. Two teens fighting each other would have looked better on screen, and been more acceptable to your audience so that you wouldn't have to cut the scene.

But once you start talking about new planets, how he came to join the order, meet the Jedi and Padme etc you're talking about changing a lot...

[Coyote]

Why are you people trying to keep Pod racing? Safely cutting the pod race is one of the best parts about having him on Naboo instead of Tatooine

It's not important; pod racing as an idea can be used but it didn't have to be the silly version we saw. It can be anything that gives him some backstory about being a natural talent with fast-moving machinery. Like those kids that just love tinkering with cars and motorcycles and does racing.

Also the stuff about Anakin being conceived by the force is kind of dumb and I wish it was never included. Don't explain why he's strong with the force, or if you have to, then say he was the love child of a Jedi master or some shit. Or if you really want to troll the fanbase, the son of Palpatine

I'd like to see the "conceived by the Force" thing out, as well, but if it is one of those things that "has to be in there" (eh) it can be done. I'd rather see an illegitimate child conceived by a Jedi and local gal, which would have been totally forbidden. Maybe a stray of Dooku as he was leaving the Jedi Order, finding it too restrictive, in personal issues as well as in being willing to explore all avenues of the Force.

[TheHammer]

I'd like to see the "conceived by the Force" thing out, as well, but if it is one of those things that "has to be in there" (eh) it can be done. I'd rather see an illegitimate child conceived by a Jedi and local gal, which would have been totally forbidden. Maybe a stray of Dooku as he was leaving the Jedi Order, finding it too restrictive, in personal issues as well as in being willing to explore all avenues of the Force

Couldn't the whole "concieved by the force thing" simply mean she had a sexual encounter with a powerful force user, who simply used the force to wipe her memory? She ends up pregnant, no idea how it happened. Watto doesn't care, it just means he gets another slave.

I've also seen that Anakin was somehow the creation of Darth Plageus (Palpy's old master). But who knows?

[Sarevok]

Couldn't the whole "concieved by the force thing" simply mean she had a sexual encounter with a powerful force user, who simply used the force to wipe her memory? She ends up pregnant, no idea how it happened. Watto doesn't care, it just means he gets another slave.

I always assumed that instead of shoehorning Star Wars, a very Eastern motif inspired science fiction, into western beliefs. Anakin having a absent father his mother did not even acknowledge opens up so many possibilities. For starters it makes the situation real, believable, something many viewers could relate to and sympathize from their own lives.

One of the reasons the OT was such a hit despite being set in a fantastic world with lasers and spaceships was the characters. A viewer could look at Luke or Han and see some part of their own self reflected in the struggles of the character. I personally felt very emotionally moved by Luke and his humble backgrounds and his desire to be something more. With Anakin it is much difficult to feel an attachment to his character. By Ep 2 became thoroughly unidentifiable.

[Elfdart]

In order for Anakin's story to make any kind of sense without a total re-write, he almost has to be a kid and not a teenager. Storytelling 101: If you want to show the evils of prostitution, corrupt a virgin -not a whore. If Anakin is Bar Mitzvah age or older, he would be pretty much set in his ways as almost everyone is. So if Anakin is the Bad Seed or Damien Thorne, there is no dramatic turn from good to evil. He's just a rotten middle-schooler who gets more rotten with age. Yeah, I'd love to watch six and a half hours of that.

The second reason is that from preadolescence on, kids (especially boys) would love nothing better than to leave home and go off on some adventure. The fact that very few can explains the popularity of comic books, adventure stories, ripping yarns and of course, Star Wars. So if Anakin is well into his teens, there's not going to be much separation anxiety, and certainly not enough to make him obsess over the only other "woman" who cared for him.

There is a third option: making Anakin a very immature, or infantile youth*, but that would be a tremendous turn-off.













* Kinda like all those disgruntled fanboys who have been in a constant state of asshurt since May 1999.

[adam_grif]

In order for Anakin's story to make any kind of sense without a total re-write, he almost has to be a kid and not a teenager.

People are proposing drastic changes in this thread, large rewrites are to be expected, and I'm not sure why this is supposed to be some kind of significant barrier to our totally imaginary alternate versions of TPM.

If Anakin is Bar Mitzvah age or older, he would be pretty much set in his ways as almost everyone is.

Character arcs work 100% fine with mature characters. "Corrupting a virgin" in the case of the PT consisted of showing a perfectly well adjusted child, who is suddenly a creepy, moody douchebag when he's an adult after a timeskip. Any and all corruption of virgins happened off screen. Him watching his mother die happens after he is already fully physically mature, well past Bar Mitzvah age, and this is the definitive character moment for Annakin pre ROTS, and is the direct precursor to his fall to the dark side.

You seem to be implying that Annakin can't be a good, untroubled 17 year old who then falls to the dark side after this age. Even leaving aside obvious canonical examples within Star Wars of such drastic character shifts (Dooku, senile Sith Lord), the more general case of physically mature individuals falling from grace is common in fiction and works perfectly well. Yeah, we would have to rewrite parts of the story, but who cares? It's not like this is really ever going to happen anyway.