Wisconsin governor: balance budget by breaking unions

[MKSheppard]

a Governor threatened to sic his mini army on peaceful protests.

To be technically accurate, as long as the governor hasn't called out the State Troopers he hasn't sicced his private army on them.

[spartasman]

Not quite calling out the National Guard, but still.

[phongn]

$48 million for private health savings accounts, which primarily benefit the wealthy. A study from the federal Governmental Accountability Office showed the average adjusted gross income of HSA participants was $139,000 and nearly half of HSA participants reported withdrawing nothing from their HSA, evidence that it is serving as a tax shelter for wealthy participants.

This smells of bullshit. You only get to have an HSA if you're enrolled in a high-deductible health plan, and there are hard contribution limits that aren't all that high; it can't be too effective as a tax shelter for the wealthy since if one is actually wealthy, the contribution limits are a tiny percentage of income. Though what would the state be spending $48 million on that relates to HSAs, anyway? Presumably it wasn't in contributions to state employees' savings accounts, so...

It's bullshit that the HSA savings accounts are tax shelters (as you mentioned, the contribution limits are not very high) and the point is that you don't withdraw from it until you need to (alongside the high-deductible insurance).

The $48M is for tax incentives for businesses to offer HSAs, IIRC.

[KlavoHunter]

Today Friday, even more of us have turned out to protest this attempted stripping of our human right to collectively bargain.

However, it is tomorrow, Saturday, when the people will turn out to show the undeniable truth of the matter - that when the Tea Party comes out to counterprotest in support of Scott Walker, having been good servants for their masters and remaining at work until now, when they will in an orderly, order-taking fashion show up on the weekend for their masters - they will show themselves to be pathetic in size compared to the true will of the people. In addition to those who have already shown themselves all the rest of this week, there are SO many more on our side who have not yet had the courage or opportunity to come join the protests yet until this weekend.

[Thanas]

^I wish you the best of luck.


CNN has finally made it the top story, though I wonder how much actual coverage is there on US news.

[KlavoHunter]

Watch the Republicans attempt to pass something as fast as possible by arriving to the meeting early and taking a vote to try and pass one of their odious things, before the Democrats arrive at the agreed-upon 5 PM meeting time.

http://www.wiseye.org/Programming/Video ... vhdid=3759 (Watch Part 4)

They get caught and called out LONG and LOUD for it. Is this really how democracy is going to work in GOP America?

[Crossroads Inc.]

Watch the Republicans attempt to pass something as fast as possible by arriving to the meeting early and taking a vote to try and pass one of their odious things, before the Democrats arrive at the agreed-upon 5 PM meeting time.

http://www.wiseye.org/Programming/Video ... vhdid=3759 (Watch Part 4)

They get caught and called out LONG and LOUD for it. Is this really how democracy is going to work in GOP America?

Yes, that is EXACTLY how "democracy" works in a GOP AMerica... It works by doing whatever the hell you want to get YOUR laws passed while going out of your way, to the point of breaking laws, to screw over the opposition.
I really wish I had been there, just to see if ANY of the conservatives in the room looked the least bit ashamed as they were told, flat out, what they were doing was both illegal and grossly undemocratic. I'd be surprised if a single one of these pus bags flinched.

[mingo]

National Guard units in the past have had no problem acting against un-american things like simple students protesting the Vietnam war (peacefully) or busting up unions.

Hopefully, the generals in charge of the Wisconsin National Guard know enough history to know how badly that turned out in the Vietnam era. I was a reservist, and I would have had a BIG problem acting against my neighbors, friends and family exercising their rights to peacefully protest injustice, so much so I would go to the brig for it.

[Civil War Man]

While I was watching NBC News recently, it was pointed out that some public sector unions are exempt from the collective bargaining restriction. Specifically the police and firefighters unions, which were the two Wisconsin public sector unions that supported Walker in the election. The teachers and prison guards, meanwhile, are two unions that did not support Walker and are being specifically targeted by this bill.

So, this whole thing is more petty chickenshit revenge than conventional union busting.

[Phantasee]

Holyyy shit, they got told off like they were naughty school children. That was disgusting.

[Simon_Jester]

National Guard units in the past have had no problem acting against un-american things like simple students protesting the Vietnam war (peacefully) or busting up unions.

Hopefully, the generals in charge of the Wisconsin National Guard know enough history to know how badly that turned out in the Vietnam era. I was a reservist, and I would have had a BIG problem acting against my neighbors, friends and family exercising their rights to peacefully protest injustice, so much so I would go to the brig for it.

It also helps when the demonstrators are being counselled not to throw stuff. And when they aren't stuck dealing with a revolutionary fringe, as some of the '60s demonstrators were.

[Lord MJ]

Have a feeling that the Democrats "strike" might end up back firing on them. In the eyes of people on the conservative side of the isle the Dems are being spoiled babies. And we already know how much better the GOP is at selling and PR than the Democrats.

[Thanas]

It also helps when the demonstrators are being counselled not to throw stuff. And when they aren't stuck dealing with a revolutionary fringe, as some of the '60s demonstrators were.

Even if they were doing all things, that does not give any sane people license to fire on a crowd.

[SirNitram]

Have a feeling that the Democrats "strike" might end up back firing on them. In the eyes of people on the conservative side of the isle the Dems are being spoiled babies. And we already know how much better the GOP is at selling and PR than the Democrats.

The people who'd swallow that while thousands(Quite possibly TENS of thousands) protest this would also probably swallow other nonsense that will come election day.

[Broomstick]

Let's see - protests and counter-protests in Wisconsin with threats to bring in the National Guard...

Ohio public workers are starting to turn out in similar protests...

The GOP's maneuvering in Washington, DC might shut down the Federal government in early March due to lack of funds...

It could be a very interesting year (but not in a good way).

[SirNitram]

And now those in power in Wisconsin begin creating counter-protests.

Link

As the nation focuses on the efforts of Governor Scott Walker to take away collective bargaining rights from public employees in Wisconsin, new information is coming to light that reveals what is truly going on here.

Mother Jones is reporting that much of the funding behind the Walker for Governor campaign came from none other than uber-conservatives, the infamous Koch Brothers.

What’s more, the plan to kill the unions is right out of the Koch Brothers play book.

Koch-backed groups like Americans for Prosperity, the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and the Reason Foundation have long taken a very antagonistic view toward public-sector unions. Several of these groups have urged the eradication of these unions. The Kochs also invited Mark Mix, president of the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, an anti-union outfit, to a June 2010 confab in Aspen, Colorado;

Via Mother Jones

If you are reluctant to believe that this is a coordinated attack, consider this-

This afternoon, Marty Beil, executive director of the Wisconsin Public Workers Union, sent a message to the Governor’s office agreeing to the cuts to pension & welfare benefits sought by Walker in his bill. The governor’s response was “nothing doing.” He wants the whole kit and kaboodle – the end of the collective bargaining rights of the public unions.

As noted in my earlier post, this is, indeed, the first shot in the final battle to end unionism in America.

UPDATE: The Americans for Prosperity group, a Tea Party group that is a Koch Brothers front, has put up a website and petition called www.standwithwalker.com. The website attacks all collective bargaining – not just for public employees’ unions. Americans for Prosperity is also organizing a rally tomorrow in Wisconsin to support Gov. Walker.

Why are the Koch Brothers so interested in Wisconsin? They are a major business player in the state.

This from Think Progress:

Koch owns a coal company subsidiary with facilities in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan; six timber plants throughout the state; and a large network of pipelines in Wisconsin. While Koch controls much of the infrastructure in the state, they have laid off workers to boost profits. At a time when Koch Industries owners David and Charles Koch awarded themselves an extra $11 billion of income from the company, Koch slashed jobs at their Green Bay plant:

Officials at Georgia-Pacific said the company is laying off 158 workers at its Day Street plant because out-of-date equipment at the facility is being replaced with newer, more-efficient equipment. The company said much of the new, papermaking equipment will be automated. [...] Malach tells FOX 11 that the layoffs are not because of a drop in demand. In fact, Malach said demand is high for the bath tissue and napkins manufactured at the plant.

You really have to wonder how long it will take for Tea Party devotees to realize just how badly they are being used.

Forbes.com apparently has some voices willing to not follow the Koch party line.. But yep. They're back to using the astroturf of the Tea Party to stage counter-protests. Only time will tell when they start stomping on someone's head or the other disgusting behavior they've undertaken when being bused around by these corporate front groups. I'm hoping not.

[KlavoHunter]

Thank you, Lord MJ, but you don't need to repeat Republican talking points in here for them, they do that often enough on Fox News, and you don't even get PAID to do it.


Seriously, this is the best the Tea Party could do?

(Mostly staying off the grass because it's already turned to mud due to being walked on lots already)

Blue-shaded areas are us, the red shaded area was the teabaggers, and the orange was the one area the cops blocked off to everyone make it less of a headache for them, since they were keeping a moderate presence in amongst where the groups met, including 4 horse police on the street later on. They also closed the east and west entrances to the Capitol. Didn't actually go inside the Capitol to see what it was like in there, but I feel safe in guessing that the teabaggers did not bother trying to go inside at all.

It was like this from about Noon to 2PM, at which point, the majority of the teabaggers went back to their buses and went home, so we sang 'em off... na na na na, na na na na, hey-ey-ey, goodbye!

[Beowulf]

It also helps when the demonstrators are being counselled not to throw stuff. And when they aren't stuck dealing with a revolutionary fringe, as some of the '60s demonstrators were.

Even if they were doing all things, that does not give any sane people license to fire on a crowd.

It depends highly on what people are throwing. Throwing empty water bottles is one thing. Throwing largeish stones is another.

[The Yosemite Bear]

and throwing glass bottles with petrolium, or moonshine are something else entirely...

however I doubt that it will come to that, unless the Teapers or the Really Religious folks get a bit more violent.

[The Yosemite Bear]

of course if the MCs do show up, unboutably FOX will claim that the evil unions cause the Teapartier to accidentaly injure himself with his own firebomb.

[Zaune]

Have a feeling that the Democrats "strike" might end up back firing on them. In the eyes of people on the conservative side of the isle the Dems are being spoiled babies. And we already know how much better the GOP is at selling and PR than the Democrats.

Not on an issue that hits this close to home, I don't think. Getting people to back something that will demonstrably hurt people they know personally is a harder sell than just going along with someone's bullshit ideas about economics.

[Simon_Jester]

It also helps when the demonstrators are being counselled not to throw stuff. And when they aren't stuck dealing with a revolutionary fringe, as some of the '60s demonstrators were.

Even if they were doing all things, that does not give any sane people license to fire on a crowd.

No it does not, as is blindingly obvious.

It does, however, make firing on crowds less likely. Such massacres are far more common in situations where you have the guys on the ground feeling threatened by hostile crowds, especially ones throwing things, or where you have a lunatic fringe that is intentionally trying to provoke violence in hopes of bringing about The Revolution.

[SirNitram]

Wisconsin's Law Enforcement Association has.. Um.. Strong feelings.

Link

Tracy Fuller, Executive Board President

Feb. 16, 2011

I am going to make an effort to speak for myself, and every member of the Wisconsin State Patrol when I say this.

I VALUE THE CAPITOL POLICE, AND THE U. W. POLICE. I VALUE ALL OF THE POLICE COMMUNICATIONS OFFICERS OF ALL OF THE AGENCIES IN OUR UNION, AND THE STATE TROOPERS, AND THE INSPECTORS OF THE STATE PATROL. I VALUE “ALL” OF THE SUPPORT STAFF OF ALL OF THE AGENCIES AROUND THE STATE. I DON’T KNOW HOW ANY OF US COULD FUNCTION WITHOUT ANY OF US AROUND THE STATE WE ALL NEED EACH OTHER.

I VALUE THE BUREAU OF FIELD SERVICES, FIELD AGENTS OF LOCAL THREE, NO LESS THAN ANY OF THE OTHER MEMBERS IN THE UNION. I AM HERE FOR EVERY MEMBER OF THIS UNION AND ALWAYS THOUGHT I HAD BEEN UNTIL THIS WEEK.

I SPECIFICALLY REGRET THE ENDORSEMENT OF THE WISCONSIN TROOPER’S ASSOCIATION FOR GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER. I REGRET THE GOVERNOR’S DECISION TO “ENDORSE” THE TROOPERS AND INSPECTORS OF THE WISCONSIN STATE PATROL. I REGRET BEING THE RECIPIENT OF ANY OF THE PERCIEVED BENEFITS PROVIDED BY THE GOVERNOR’S ANNOINTING.

I THINK EVERYONE’S JOB AND CAREER IS JUST AS SIGNIFICANT AS THE OTHERS. EVERYONES FAMILY IS JUST AS VALUABLE AS MINE OR ANY OTHER PERSONS, ESPECIALLY MINE. EVERYONES NEEDS ARE JUST AS VALUABLE. WE ARE ALL GREAT PEOPLE!!

Directly quoted. Caps and multiple !!'s intact. Strong feelings.

[Zaune]

Way to shoot yourself in the foot... No, actually that one hit a bit higher up and more on the centreline. If that's representative of what passes for professionalism in Wisconsin public-sector unions, Governor Walker's position may not be completely indefensible after all.

[Fire Fly]

If it isn't clear by now that money was never the question (the unions were already willing to compromise in the first place as they had done so in previous years, not to mention that this bill only targets the unions which didn't support the Governor during last year's election), then this should make it official:

Republicans reject offer by unions to compromise on concessions

Although union leaders and Wisconsin Democratic Senators are offering to accept the wage and benefit concessions Gov. Scott Walker is demanding, Republican Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) said today a bill taking away collective bargaining rights from public employees is not negotiable.

Democrats and union leaders said they're willing to agree to the parts of Walker's budget repair bill that would double their health insurance contributions and require them to contribute 5.8 percent of their salary to their pensions.

However, the union leaders want to keep their collective bargaining rights.

"I have been informed that all state and local public employees – including teachers - have agreed to the financial aspects of Governor

Walker's request," Sen. Jon Erpenbach (D-Waunakee)said. "This includes Walker's requested concessions on public employee health care and pension. In return they ask only that the provisions that deny their right to collectively bargain are removed. This will solve the budget challenge. This is a real opportunity for us to come together and resolve the issue and move on. It is incumbent upon Governor Walker to seriously consider and hopefully accept this offer as soon as possible."

However, Fitzgerald said the terms of the bill are not negotiable, and he called upon Democrats who left the state this week to stall a vote on the bill to return to the Capitol.

Earlier this week, Walker had said his bill was strictly based on the need to cut the budget and was not based on any political agenda.

Walker's office today issued the following statement: "These are many of the same senators who, two years ago, rammed through a billion dollar tax hike in 24 hours with no public input. The quickest way to resolve the current situation is for the Democratic Senators to stop shirking their responsibilities and debate the bill in Madison. We continue to call on them to come to Madison and do their jobs."

Erpenbach in turn, released this statement: "There is a legitimate and serious offer on the table from local, state, and school public employees that balances Gov. Walker's budget. It would appear that Gov. Walker's only target is the destruction of collective bargaining rights and not solving the state’s budget."

The state Republicans are essentially goading the unions, especially the teacher's union, to go on strike by refusing to remove the passage that would eliminate most of collective bargaining. I doubt the public at large knows much about the details of the issue since the ones who have spoken out against the unions already think that the unions are acting spoiled. Thus an official strike would eventually push public opinion against them and force the state senators who have move across the state border to return.