Military chaplain: Soldier’s rape ‘must have been God’s will

[bobalot]

WASHINGTON – A lawsuit targeting the Pentagon contains an astonishing anecdote about a retired Sergeant's experience after being sexually assaulted by a colleague during a deployment to Afghanistan.

The lawsuit, available here (PDF), was filed by 17 military women against Secretaries of Defense Robert Gates and Donald Rumsfeld in Virginia. It assails "the military's repeated failures to take action in rape cases created a culture where violence against women was tolerated, violating the plaintiffs' Constitutional rights."

Sergeant Rebekah Havrilla alleges in the complaint that in 2006, after her military supervisor repeatedly sexually harassed her, she was raped by a colleague she was working with at the time.

"He pulled her into his bed, held her down, and raped her. He also photographed the rape," it reads. Havrilla reported the incident within a month.

In February 2009, she reported for active duty training and, upon seeing her rapist, went into shock.

"She immediately sought the assistance of the military chaplain," the lawsuit reads. "When SGT Havrilla met with the military chaplain, he told her that 'it must have been God's will for her to be raped' and recommended that she attend church more frequently."

The complains adds that "SGT Havrilla suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder and chronic depression."

Havrilla's harrowing story, and the broader lawsuit, sheds light on the ongoing and widely reported problem of sexual assault in the military.

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said it was "a command priority" to "ensure all of our service members are safe from abuse" and pledged to commit more resources to the goal.

"Sexual assault is a wider societal problem and Secretary Gates has been working with the service chiefs to make sure the U.S. military is doing all it can to prevent and respond to it," Morrell told NBC News.

Source

What more can I add to this horrible story? It speaks for itself.

[Todeswind]

He really said "It must have been God's will" that seems a bit.... harsh....

It seems more likely that he meant something along the lines of "God makes everything happen for a reason. Bad things sometimes happen to good people. Prayer and meditation will be useful in finding the answers." Not a useful statement to someone who's been raped but the sort of thing I've been told by preachers to explain death and loss in my own life. It's sort of a generic catch all answer for anything the Pastor or Priest can't provide a simple answer for.

[Tritio]

He really said "It must have been God's will" that seems a bit.... harsh....

It seems more likely that he meant something along the lines of "God makes everything happen for a reason. Bad things sometimes happen to good people. Prayer and meditation will be useful in finding the answers." Not a useful statement to someone who's been raped but the sort of thing I've been told by preachers to explain death and loss in my own life. It's sort of a generic catch all answer for anything the Pastor or Priest can't provide a simple answer for.

That's still not helpful. In the absence of a more complete account of what the chaplain said, it sounds callous. I wonder what the lawsuit will result in, if anything.

[mingo]

This is the problem you run into when you insist on an omnipotent deity. Fundies are at their most stupid with the "Why does a loving God allow evil" question.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

He really said "It must have been God's will" that seems a bit.... harsh....

It seems more likely that he meant something along the lines of "God makes everything happen for a reason. Bad things sometimes happen to good people. Prayer and meditation will be useful in finding the answers." Not a useful statement to someone who's been raped but the sort of thing I've been told by preachers to explain death and loss in my own life. It's sort of a generic catch all answer for anything the Pastor or Priest can't provide a simple answer for.

Or . . . he meant exactly what he said. This is the United States we're talking about here. There are those in the American military establishment who still have strong reservations about the notion of women serving in the military, period.

The chaplain in question may well have been one of those who felt that women should not serve in the military, and that the woman being raped was God's way of telling her that at the head of every woman is man, and uppity women who put themselves in an environment full of men who are tempted to sin by their presence are just asking for trouble. Sound crazy? Well, it is, but actual American Christian extremists fundamentalists have said those very words.

[FTeik]

What would happen, if she'd kill the bastards (the rapist AND the chaplain) and claims "god told her to do it"?

[Lonestar]

Chaplains in the are military uniformly(ha!) evangelicals, news at eleven.

[Eros]

He really said "It must have been God's will" that seems a bit.... harsh....

It seems more likely that he meant something along the lines of "God makes everything happen for a reason. Bad things sometimes happen to good people. Prayer and meditation will be useful in finding the answers." Not a useful statement to someone who's been raped but the sort of thing I've been told by preachers to explain death and loss in my own life. It's sort of a generic catch all answer for anything the Pastor or Priest can't provide a simple answer for.

Or . . . he meant exactly what he said. This is the United States we're talking about here. There are those in the American military establishment who still have strong reservations about the notion of women serving in the military, period.

The chaplain in question may well have been one of those who felt that women should not serve in the military, and that the woman being raped was God's way of telling her that at the head of every woman is man, and uppity women who put themselves in an environment full of men who are tempted to sin by their presence are just asking for trouble. Sound crazy? Well, it is, but actual American Christian extremists fundamentalists have said those very words.

This seems like the most plausible theory to me if she is telling the truth. Honestly, considering they are suing for monetary damages (I'm guessing) I'd say the most plausible theory is she is overstating and/or misrepresenting what the Chaplain said. I suspect even a Republican Fundie Chaplain in the Military would not be quite that callous and stupid. Then again, after it being an exaggeration or a lie, the Chaplain being that fucking stupid seems the most plausible to me. -shrugs-

Honestly, I always doubt the motives of people when they ask for financial compensation for their grievances years afterwards. I understand it takes time to recover....but 5 years total to make a financial complaint? I'd figure 3. Maybe another 6 months or so to organise a combined suit. :/

[General Zod]

This seems like the most plausible theory to me if she is telling the truth. Honestly, considering they are suing for monetary damages (I'm guessing) I'd say the most plausible theory is she is overstating and/or misrepresenting what the Chaplain said. I suspect even a Republican Fundie Chaplain in the Military would not be quite that callous and stupid. Then again, after it being an exaggeration or a lie, the Chaplain being that fucking stupid seems the most plausible to me. -shrugs-

Honestly, I always doubt the motives of people when they ask for financial compensation for their grievances years afterwards. I understand it takes time to recover....but 5 years total to make a financial complaint? I'd figure 3. Maybe another 6 months or so to organise a combined suit. :/

This is the military we're talking about. Nothing done through the military is going to be fast, and according to other articles I've read it seems like she tried all other options before filing a suit.

[Lonestar]

This seems like the most plausible theory to me if she is telling the truth. Honestly, considering they are suing for monetary damages (I'm guessing) I'd say the most plausible theory is she is overstating and/or misrepresenting what the Chaplain said. I suspect even a Republican Fundie Chaplain in the Military would not be quite that callous and stupid. Then again, after it being an exaggeration or a lie, the Chaplain being that fucking stupid seems the most plausible to me. -shrugs-

Use the search function on this website to look for "Klingenschmitt" and a post with me as the author. I've told some terrible stories about him.

[Serafina]

Honestly, I always doubt the motives of people when they ask for financial compensation for their grievances years afterwards. I understand it takes time to recover....but 5 years total to make a financial complaint? I'd figure 3. Maybe another 6 months or so to organise a combined suit. :/

Rape takes years to recover from. On what basis do you place your "3 seems reasonable, 5 is too much"-judgment?
It get's worse when you seek help, and you are brushed of like that. Yes, rationally you might now that what you've just been told is bullshit - but self-blame is one of the major emotional responses to rape anyway, and this only made it worse.
Also, it is likely that the shame is even stronger for a soldier. "You could have fought him off if you really didn't want it" is already an often-used accusation against rape-victims, it's likely to be much worse in a martial environment.

[Block]

Also, it is likely that the shame is even stronger for a soldier. "You could have fought him off if you really didn't want it" is already an often-used accusation against rape-victims, it's likely to be much worse in a martial environment.

Please don't post things that you have no way of backing up when it's utterly wrong. If anything it's the complete opposite, there's still a knight in shining armor mentality among many male American service members towards the females they serve with. They consider them weaker and more in need of help than your average soldier.

[LadyTevar]

Also, it is likely that the shame is even stronger for a soldier. "You could have fought him off if you really didn't want it" is already an often-used accusation against rape-victims, it's likely to be much worse in a martial environment.

Please don't post things that you have no way of backing up when it's utterly wrong. If anything it's the complete opposite, there's still a knight in shining armor mentality among many male American service members towards the females they serve with. They consider them weaker and more in need of help than your average soldier.

Fina wasn't talking about how many soldiers think of their female comrades. She was talking about the FEMALE's feeling of shame, which is very real.

All rape victims are trapped, being asked by the unthinking why they didn't fight back, asking themselves why they couldn't have stopped it, even when they know there was no way they could have. So, a Soldier, trained in hand-to-hand, in weapons, would have even more people asking 'Why didn't you do (x) to stop him' than the usual victim, and still have her own mental breakdowns over her inability to prevent it.

To make it even worse... what does a Soldier do when a commanding officer puts pressure on her? In the business world, Sexual Harassment is still a problem, although the options a woman has to prevent it have been available for a couple decades now. However, the Military is still far behind the private sector when it comes to sexual harassment training and support for the victims. We've seen it with DADT, the military would prefer women to keep silent about abuse, as it would 'hurt morale'.

Block, you might be a white knight, but there are still a lot of black hearts in the military.

[Block]

She may possibly think of herself in such a way, but the whole why didn't you stop him thing just doesn't fly. women are looked at as weaker, as in they should not be able to defend themselves against a man. If you don't believe me, just look at the fitness standards. Max for a female on a fitness test is barely average for a male. Women are still not allowed into combat arms with the exception of pilots, and this is again because women are looked at as weaker and unable to defend themselves. My knight analogy was not because the men are necessarily chivalrous, but rather because they still look at women as damsels in distress who can't do anything without help. Some of this is unfortunately based upon bad past experiences, most of the shittiest soldiers I know are women, and that's because standards are sometimes more lax for them in both discipline (Due to fear of what even a false harrasment complaint can do) and fitness.

As far as sensitivity training lagging behind the private sector, I'd disagree. There are hours upon hours of classes that we sit through, not just on what defines abuse and harassment, but who to go to outside the chain of command that can help you, any and all local agencies you can go to, how to react in the immediate aftermath, etc. We're forced to attend classes like this at least once a quarter, and no corporation I've ever worked for did anything nearly so extensive.

[Eros]

This seems like the most plausible theory to me if she is telling the truth. Honestly, considering they are suing for monetary damages (I'm guessing) I'd say the most plausible theory is she is overstating and/or misrepresenting what the Chaplain said. I suspect even a Republican Fundie Chaplain in the Military would not be quite that callous and stupid. Then again, after it being an exaggeration or a lie, the Chaplain being that fucking stupid seems the most plausible to me. -shrugs-

Use the search function on this website to look for "Klingenschmitt" and a post with me as the author. I've told some terrible stories about him.

I stand corrected then. They really are that stupid. Wow.

@Serafina
It wasn't really something I intended to debate seriously but my general opinion is that if someone can function in society afterwards, they should be able to take action with every resource they have at their disposal before half a decade has passed. So considered it withdrawn since it isn't relevant beyond my knee jerk disbelief anyone could be so fucking stupid to have done what that Chaplain did. I can't comprehend that level of callousness and stupidity.

@General Zod
Ah then maybe I'm overestimating the efficiency of military justice. :/

So anyway, consider that part of the post redacted since I had no real intention of debating it as a 'fact' but rather stating the basis of my opinion. It has nothing to do with her being raped or not...merely my doubt about the motives of people seeking financial damages 5 years afterwards seems something doubt worthy to me.

[Serafina]

It wasn't really something I intended to debate seriously but my general opinion is that if someone can function in society afterwards, they should be able to take action with every resource they have at their disposal before half a decade has passed. So considered it withdrawn since it isn't relevant beyond my knee jerk disbelief anyone could be so fucking stupid to have done what that Chaplain did. I can't comprehend that level of callousness and stupidity.

Again, you wouldn't say that if you knew anything about rape (or just traumas in general). Many people, especially mentally strong ones, are capable of functioning despite heavy trauma. That says nothing about whether they suffer from that trauma or not - functioning says nothing about happiness or even stability.
I've seen women who were able to function right after they were raped, but were suffering from it for years, even decades. And because they were already investing all their energy into functioning, they had none left to deal with their trauma (and confronting the rapist, even indirectly, takes a lot of energy).

Please don't post things that you have no way of backing up when it's utterly wrong. If anything it's the complete opposite, there's still a knight in shining armor mentality among many male American service members towards the females they serve with. They consider them weaker and more in need of help than your average soldier.

And i suppose that's true for every single one of them? They are all saints?

Besides, as Tev pointed out, those accusations don't have to out in the open. They don't even have to be there. But if a female soldier would admit to beind raped, she could easily feel that this is an admission of weakness. I don't think that that is something a soldier would like to do - yes, female ones too. I've heard more than enough stories how women in the military have to try to be extra-tough in order to be accepted by your oh-so-good-knights.

As far as sensitivity training lagging behind the private sector, I'd disagree. There are hours upon hours of classes that we sit through, not just on what defines abuse and harassment, but who to go to outside the chain of command that can help you, any and all local agencies you can go to, how to react in the immediate aftermath, etc. We're forced to attend classes like this at least once a quarter, and no corporation I've ever worked for did anything nearly so extensive.

Well, we have the perfect example here how these training lessions can utterly fail. A chaplain is exactly the person that is supposed to fulfill that function "outside the chain of command", and we see how well that worked here.
The military is also inherently an entirely different enviornment than civilian jobs. By your own admission, many men in the military look down upon women and see them as inferior. That is exactly the enviornment that keeps women from talking about being raped.

[Alyrium Denryle]

This seems like the most plausible theory to me if she is telling the truth. Honestly, considering they are suing for monetary damages (I'm guessing) I'd say the most plausible theory is she is overstating and/or misrepresenting what the Chaplain said.

You realize that when you file a lawsuit like this (so, not a habeus writ, or an order of injunction), you pretty much HAVE to claim some sort of monetary damages in the US right? There only a few types of things you can demand in a civil suit.

Some form of injunction: In these cases, there is nothing to enjoin the defendant from doing.

Restoration of a violated right: In this case, the rights in question were violated prior, and not ongoing. If a school had an illegal policy of denying funding to women's athletic teams, then this policy could be forcibly reversed via court order.

Monetary Damages: Compensating the injured party in the event that the other two conditions do not apply (or in addition to the other remedies, if the court decides that punitive damages are required to punish the defendant)

I suspect even a Republican Fundie Chaplain in the Military would not be quite that callous and stupid. Then again, after it being an exaggeration or a lie, the Chaplain being that fucking stupid seems the most plausible to me. -shrugs-

Have you ever talked to an evangelical minister in your life? Yes. They are that fucking callous. And yes, there is a definite tendency for military chaplains to be evangelists, and there are recorded incidents of them doing some Fucked Up shit to get conversions from soldiers.

Honestly, I always doubt the motives of people when they ask for financial compensation for their grievances years afterwards. I understand it takes time to recover....but 5 years total to make a financial complaint? I'd figure 3. Maybe another 6 months or so to organise a combined suit. :/

No moron. The government's pockets are really freaking deep. You dont want to sue them on your own, they will bury you.

1) You have recovery time, and guess what... rape victims do not generally recover fast. The women has been diagnosed with clinical depression and PTSD, and has probably had a hell of a time getting the mental healthcare she needs on top of all the other shit.
2) Soldiers are contractually barred from filing lawsuits except under certain conditions (IIRC), so you have to file various forms to get that done
3) You have to find people willing to sign on to the suit with you in order to defray the upfront filing costs and to give yourself a better case in court. For a case like this, it helps if you have 17 people claiming that there is a pattern of this sort of abuse. That takes time to do.

In other words, you and your rape-myths can go fuck yourself.

I've heard more than enough stories how women in the military have to try to be extra-tough in order to be accepted by your oh-so-good-knights.

Oh yes. Imagine it. The chauvinist pigs "knights in shining armor" always looking down at you, offering to help you with simple tasks, the institution itself holding you to lower standards, but also penalizing you for their decision to do so by passing you over for promotion or the high risk assignments you may otherwise prefer...

It is EXACTLY like female police officers. They have to be extra-tough just to get the respect of the men, and their self respect grows with the work. So, when they get raped, it violates them emotionally even more because their pride and self respect--to say nothing of the respect of others--have been crushed even more.

We're forced to attend classes like this at least once a quarter, and no corporation I've ever worked for did anything nearly so extensive.

And the reason that has to happen is because of the demographics of the military. White, young, poor to middle class, often religiously conservative males. You know, the kind prone to the thinking that they are big badasses, and who think that the place of a woman is inherently in the kitchen pregnant.

I wont even get into the macho military culture. Now, not everyone is like that, but statistically you WILL get a higher percentage of that in the military population. Isn't selection bias grand?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Ghetto Edit:

I forgot, she probably tried going through the usual chain of command as well. That takes time. In fact, if she saw her rapist in 2009, said chain of command did all of jack and shit about her rape.

[LadyTevar]

She may possibly think of herself in such a way, but the whole why didn't you stop him thing just doesn't fly. women are looked at as weaker, as in they should not be able to defend themselves against a man.

I think you need to either rephrase that statement, or retake your "Senesitivity Exam".

[Aaron]

I think he was saying that's the common view, not his view.

Though the whole fitness thing IIRC from the CAF is because the average woman isn't capable of performing the same number of pushups/situps etc due to their bodies being geared towards other things then raw strength. In other words its a way to actually get woman in. Standards drop for men as they age so...

[Block]

I think he was saying that's the common view, not his view.

Though the whole fitness thing IIRC from the CAF is because the average woman isn't capable of performing the same number of pushups/situps etc due to their bodies being geared towards other things then raw strength. In other words its a way to actually get woman in. Standards drop for men as they age so...

That's what I meant, yes.