Beast Wars- this one has been nagging me since I was a kid

[Swindle1984]

I'm rewatching the first episode of Beast Wars for the first time in years. I loved the show as a kid, especially the feeling of mystery surrounding the planet in the first season.

But... How can they not know they're on Earth? They know the transwarp drive takes them through space AND time, so they could be anywhere in the future or past. When they arrive, they all adopt (and recognize by name) animal forms from Earth, including fossilized remains of dinosaurs. But because there's a second moon, they all assume they're on a different planet.

Were Earth creatures exported to other worlds or something? Or did the Maximals and Predacons all suffer "brain" damage after the crash?

[OmegaChief]

It's been a while since I watched the show, but after the Great War, wern't all the details on Earth totally locked down by the Maximal Elders?

I mean Megatron had to steal the Golden Disk to get the Co-ordnates for the system for crying out loud!

At least that's how it always seemed to me. The fact that everyone didn't instantly recognise they were on a prehistoric earth after the second moon incident kinda shows that the knowledge of it isn't that well known (Of course when they do figure out when and where they are the "Oh Crap" moment is sufficantly awsome").

[Manus Celer Dei]

Pretty sure early on in the series the writers weren't sure if they were going to turn out to be on earth or just some generic prehistoric planet. Not surprising the characters didn't know if the writers didn't!

[JME2]

It's been a while since I watched the show, but after the Great War, wern't all the details on Earth totally locked down by the Maximal Elders?

I mean Megatron had to steal the Golden Disk to get the Co-ordnates for the system for crying out loud!

At least that's how it always seemed to me. The fact that everyone didn't instantly recognise they were on a prehistoric earth after the second moon incident kinda shows that the knowledge of it isn't that well known (Of course when they do figure out when and where they are the "Oh Crap" moment is sufficantly awsome").

In-universe, that was always my thought too. Obviously they all knew about humanity, but not the lifeforms -- though the names they adopted put a hole in that theory since they knew enough.

Outside the universe, yes the producers didn't decide until the end of Season 1.

[OmegaChief]

For all we know thier Datatracts might have simple gone:

"T-Rex, an extinct giant reptile from the planet <Redacted>"

Or somthing like that, eh pulling at straws maybe, but it seems to reasonably fit all the evidence we have.

[JME2]

For all we know thier Datatracts might have simple gone:

"T-Rex, an extinct giant reptile from the planet <Redacted>"

Or somthing like that, eh pulling at straws maybe, but it seems to reasonably fit all the evidence we have.

Eh, I'll buy it.

[Ritterin Sophia]

For all we know thier Datatracts might have simple gone:

"T-Rex, an extinct giant reptile from the planet <Redacted>"

Or somthing like that, eh pulling at straws maybe, but it seems to reasonably fit all the evidence we have.

In the Grim Darkness of the Nth Millenium, there is only <Redacted>.

[Enigma]

I always wanted to know the history of the Maximals and Predacons since the end of the Decepticon-Autobot war. They've dropped bits and pieces during the BW and BM but there was still a lot of gaps. But that was years ago. Did they continue to flesh out the history after Beast Machines?

[OmegaChief]

I think a few years ago there was a prequal comic released telling the story of how Megatron stole the Golden Disk that filled in a few details, such as the shift to smaller more enegery efficant bodies and so on.

But other then that I don't think so, which is a shame, Beast Wars was pretty damn good.

[JME2]

But other then that I don't think so, which is a shame, Beast Wars was pretty damn good.

It's still my favorite incarnation of TF a decade later and one of my all-time favorite shows, yeeessss....

[Swindle1984]

Beast Wars was freaking amazing.

Beast Machines not only had TERRIBLE character designs, but a horrible plot and even worse ending. As far as I'm concerned, Beast Machines never happened.

[JME2]

Beast Machines never happened.

Discontinuity is a good thing, yeeeessss...

I'm sorry, I never get tired of parodying that verbal tic or hearing the dulcet tones of David Kaye, yesss...

[Sidewinder]

Beast Wars was freaking amazing.

Beast Machines not only had TERRIBLE character designs, but a horrible plot and even worse ending. As far as I'm concerned, Beast Machines never happened.

I second that. Beast Wars gave us samurai Dinobot, maverick Optimus Primal, and mad scientist Megatron. Beast Machines gave us whiny bitch Nightscream, ecoterrorist Optimus Primal, and Hitler-wannabe Megatron.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Thirded!
ANd lets not forget the absurdity of Waspinator, after becoming King of the primitive humans, somehow "flys back" to Cybertron on his own.
Actually just two words need to be used for how ugly Beast machines was.

Organic Core

[Skylon]

Thirded!
ANd lets not forget the absurdity of Waspinator, after becoming King of the primitive humans, somehow "flys back" to Cybertron on his own.
Actually just two words need to be used for how ugly Beast machines was.

Organic Core

What pissed me off about BM was, okay, Cybertron was once organic...so, why exactly did it need to go back to the way it was (or I'm sorry, techno-organic BS)?

And Nightscream was one of the most annoying transformers EVER.

Beast Wars was the best Transformers TV series ever IMHO.

I always wanted to know the history of the Maximals and Predacons since the end of the Decepticon-Autobot war. They've dropped bits and pieces during the BW and BM but there was still a lot of gaps. But that was years ago. Did they continue to flesh out the history after Beast Machines?

Some Botcon exclusive comics (or whatever the official Transformers con is called these days) but never on screen. Everything since then Transformers has been all about "new incarnations"...the current IDW comics have their own continuity, the Dreamwave comics did too...and there's stuff like Transformers: Animated (which actually was pretty good). Only Beast Wars was an outright continuation. And even then, its sketchy on which continuity it is a continuation of, as it took elements from both the old US cartoon and US Marvel comic with its G1 references.

[Swindle1984]

Beast Machines never happened.

Discontinuity is a good thing, yeeeessss...

I'm sorry, I never get tired of parodying that verbal tic or hearing the dulcet tones of David Kaye, yesss...

Black Arachnia: "Why do you always talk to yourself?"

Megatron: "Oh, I simply have a penchant for intelligent conversation."



Inferno: "Yes, my queen!"

Dinobot: "I was not aware you had changed your title."

Megatron: "Yes, erm, the ant has some faulty programming. Moving on..."




Megatron: "Ah, as I surmised! The Maximal base is undermanned, poorly defended... ours for the asking."

Quickstrike: "Aw, now we ain't gonna ask, are we? Howsabout we blast our way in there, kick the keisters of any Maximals, and TAKE IT!"

Megatron: "Mmmm... Ok!"




Also, I remember a fan theory from the 90's that Megatron's rubber ducky was secretly manipulating everything that happened in Beast Wars from behind the scenes.

That show was awesome as a kid. Then I borrowed a friend's DVD's and watched it again as an adult and I was laughing at all the same scenes and jokes... but for entirely different reasons. That show was intelligently made and most of the humor was on two levels: what the kiddies get, and what the parents watching it get. Awesome.

I heard Shout Factory is going to be releasing the complete series on DVD again, this time without the mistakes that Rhino made on their DVD set (they used the short opening for season one, invented their own chopped-up opening for season three, got a couple episodes out of order, etc.). They're also asking the fans to contribute any sort of bonus material they can get, such as deleted scenes, the canon fan-made prequel showing Megatron's theft of the golden disc (featuring David Kaye as Megatron!) that was shown at BotCon one year, toy commercials, alternate openings, scans of the comic that came included with the original bat Optimus Primal and alligator Megatron two-pack, episode commentary by the voice actors, interviews, etc. They want it to be as complete and high-quality as possible. They also are considering making the case design for the DVD set complement the case designs of other series... apparently they're working to not only get the rights to all of the Transformers series ever aired in the US, but also the Japanese-exclusive series that never aired here. Sweeeeet!

[JME2]

Also, I remember a fan theory from the 90's that Megatron's rubber ducky was secretly manipulating everything that happened in Beast Wars from behind the scenes.

[Sidewinder]

Also, I remember a fan theory from the 90's that Megatron's rubber ducky was secretly manipulating everything that happened in Beast Wars from behind the scenes.

TERROR SOAR: Once again, your failure has seized defeat from the jaws of victory! (Aims big guns at Megatron.) I should lead! Predacons, rally to me! Together, we'll overthrow Megatron's reign of incompetence- and then, the yokes the Maximals placed around our Cybertronian brothers' necks!

MEGATRON: (Smiling.) Oh, I'm not the one you need to worry about, Terror Soar.

TERROR SOAR: What are you...?

RUBBER DUCKY: Megaduck, terrorize! (Flies out the hot tub/CR chamber, transforms, and kicks Terror Soar in the head.)

[Swindle1984]

It's Terrasaur, not Terror Saur. That's been driving me nuts since 1997.

Also, Terrasaur, Scorponok, Inferno, and Quickstrike had the cheapest deaths of the entire series. Inferno and Quickstrike, you can rationalize it as having to rush the last several episodes (they couldn't animate an episode they had scripted out and had to drop several scenes from the final episode.), but there's no excuse for Terrasaur and Scorponok. Just ker-plunk! Fall in the lava and they're dead. Even though one of them can FLY and should have been able to prevent himself from falling into fucking lava. To this day, I've never understood why they killed off those two.

[fgalkin]

To introduce a new toyline, duh.

I liked Beast Wars (especially anything involving Dinobot), and I may be the only person in existence to actually enjoy Beast Machines (or, rather, the concept of the Maximals being always on the run and overmatched, and the tight storytelling. A pity that it was all leading up to the the technorganic silliness).

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[D.Turtle]

Outside the universe, yes the producers didn't decide until the end of Season 1.

Umm, that can't be right. I'm currently rewatching the series because of this thread.
In Episode 5 we have a pretty clear picture of the moon and a cery clear picture of South America from orbit.
In episode 7, it becomes very blatantly obvious that it is a prehistoric Earth, as they show a world map, with very recognizable continents, etc.
So it seems that by Episode 5 they had decided it was Earth.

[Swindle1984]

Outside the universe, yes the producers didn't decide until the end of Season 1.

Umm, that can't be right. I'm currently rewatching the series because of this thread.
In Episode 5 we have a pretty clear picture of the moon and a cery clear picture of South America from orbit.
In episode 7, it becomes very blatantly obvious that it is a prehistoric Earth, as they show a world map, with very recognizable continents, etc.
So it seems that by Episode 5 they had decided it was Earth.

They have Stonehenge in episode two!

To introduce a new toyline, duh.

-fgalkin

Really.

Tigatron remained the same and survived for several more episodes. Ditto for Airazor, despite having a Transmetal toy release. Rhinox remained the same throughout all three seasons, despite having a Transmetal toy released. Terrasaur was killed off, despite having a Transmetal toy released. Waspinator remained the same through all three seasons, despite having a Transmetal toy released.

If it was just about selling new toys, then they went about it the wrong way. You can't even excuse it as "we're introducing Silverbolt and Quickstrike, gotta make room for new characters" because why get rid of two established characters for two new ones, particularly when one is voiced by the same guy who voices three other characters already? And particularly given that they expanded the cast further in season 2 and 3.

It was just sloppy. They wanted to get rid of the characters, and they did it as cheaply as possible.




One thing I did like was how the bases got progressively shittier over time.

The Axalon/Maximal base was pretty nifty, high-tech, and well-maintained throughout season one, even lifting off temporarily, but started showing signs of wear from all the battles. Season two fucked it over harder, and then in season three all we're left with is part of the bridge and a pile of scrap they salvaged and welded together in the cave the Ark was buried in.

The Darkside/Predacon base was shit to begin with, full of holes, rocks, and fucking lava, took damage nobody bothered to fix throughout the series, and then gets blown up completely, leaving the Predacons temporarily homeless.

Imagine if Voyager had had that kind of attention to continuity and realism. A show aimed at boys in their early teens did a better job at it than a seven year Star Trek series. Nope, magic reset button, the ship's as good as new again.


Also, Beast Machines (ugh) never did address what happened to all those stasis pods in orbit. The scene of Optimus Primal returning the sparks of Optimus Prime and Megatron were cut from their respective episodes, but the stasis pods were never even addressed at the end of the series. Or... I forget, did the transwarp wave that magically upgraded half the caste knock all the pods out of orbit? We saw at least two dozen pods eject from the Axalon and go into orbit; eight of them fall out of orbit and are recovered, three of them severely fucked up. Actually, I think Black Arachnia's was the only pod that wasn't fucked up; Tigatron had issues after landing and forgot he was a robot, Airazor had problems, Inferno had mental problems, Silverbolt and Quickstrike scanned multiple species simultaneously, Transmutate was seven kinds of fucked up, and... I guess Rampage just turned into a transmetal, he was already frigging psycho and semi-immortal to boot. So out of all the stasis pods that land, Black Arachnia and Rampage are the only ones that weren't messed up by the landing and/or the transwarp wave.

So what happened to the rest?

[JME2]

One thing I did like was how the bases got progressively shittier over time.

The Axalon/Maximal base was pretty nifty, high-tech, and well-maintained throughout season one, even lifting off temporarily, but started showing signs of wear from all the battles. Season two fucked it over harder, and then in season three all we're left with is part of the bridge and a pile of scrap they salvaged and welded together in the cave the Ark was buried in.

The Darkside/Predacon base was shit to begin with, full of holes, rocks, and fucking lava, took damage nobody bothered to fix throughout the series, and then gets blown up completely, leaving the Predacons temporarily homeless.

Imagine if Voyager had had that kind of attention to continuity and realism. A show aimed at boys in their early teens did a better job at it than a seven year Star Trek series. Nope, magic reset button, the ship's as good as new again.

I never noticed that before. Good eye.

[Crossroads Inc.]

On Terrasaur and Scorponok, looking back at things, I felt they were killed off largely because it started to feel like a copy of Soundwave and Starscream all over again.
You had the fiercely loyal and logical one and then the crazed high pitched guy out to stab the boss in the back, and who was a flyer to boot. Now that is a bit of a stab in the dark really, originally I thought it was just to sell toys at first, but Swindle already covered that.

As for Tigertron and Airaiser, well I assumed that was to 'balance out' the deaths of Terrasaur and Scorponok, but that goes back to their deaths being rather needless.

Aside from that BW WAS A marvel, the best TF series out there IMHO. As others have said, the Only direct continuation of the original series. It didn't just have good continuity, but it built up an ongoing plot as well. After the first season, there were very few "story of the week" shows, most continued to either give character development or add to the increasing plots for each of the remaining seasons. I mean, you could tell they didn't exactly have htings planned out from day one, but they did a supurb job of going "He, you know that random thing we hinted at? Let's use it for this"

Again something not always seen in other shows, specially cartoons from that time.

[JME2]

The character development definitely set it apart not only from other shows of the time, but G1. The smaller cast really allowed a grater focus on the Maximals and Predacons than had been possible with the Autobots and Decepticons. You really knew the characters by the end and anytime I re-watch, it's like revisiting old friends.