Would this be possible? Sex ratio

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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by Coalition »

Coyote wrote:Was there ever a way to figure out what would be the least amount of people (and what their sex ratios would have to be) would be needed to drop off on a planet and leave as a viable colony with enough genetic diversity to keep inbreeding from being a problem? The inbreeding would be a genetic factor to figure in sex ratios; the social factors would be something different and not necessarily related.
If you go by the 50/500 rules, then 5000 would be the next step. From the wiki page on Space colonization, a population of 160-180 would allow for stability over 60-80 generations. The minimum would be 2 women, and lots of frozen embryos (and those women would be very unhappy).

The other stunt would have the extra embryos, and a large ratio of female to male. According to Duchess it could be 40:1, I'd go with 49:1, to make the math easy. Each woman would be expected to have 2 kids, to help the population grow. First generation would be 1M:49F, with 98 children. 1-2 would be M, the rest (96?) F. The next generation is 192 kids, maybe 4 M. Massive population growth, hope the industry can keep up.

The fun part occurs after all the frozen embryos are used up, and the gender ratio becomes ~1:1. Cue societal issues. If the men are in charge, they might try to engineer the ratio to remain the same, while if the women are in charge they might use the same ratio to keep their power. That's a fun story to explore on another topic though.
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by DudeGuyMan »

Is anyone else ever weirded out by the number of basement-dwelling Bond villains who come around and ask whether their stupid overcomplicated plan to fuck with humanity "for it's own good" could work or not?
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by Simon_Jester »

Yes.

I think it comes down to the fact that people who spend a lot of time detached from human realities tend to end up, well, detached from human realities. There are things you can't learn about people by reading books, and an even larger number of things you can learn wrong about people by reading the wrong books- or reading the right books the wrong way.

That's a particularly serious occupational hazard when you spend a lot of time on a website full of science fiction fans, harbor not-so-veiled contempt for the 'mere mortals' around you who don't share your views on the apotheosis of the nerds, and spend too much time exposing yourself to stories which greatly oversimplify the dynamics of the human existence for the sake of making it all fit into a novel.

If there isn't enough psychological grounding to keep someone stabilized at that point, the result tends to be a person who simply cannot comprehend people, to varying degrees of incomprehension that get really frightening at the far end.
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by Broomstick »

Coalition wrote:The other stunt would have the extra embryos, and a large ratio of female to male. According to Duchess it could be 40:1, I'd go with 49:1, to make the math easy. Each woman would be expected to have 2 kids, to help the population grow. First generation would be 1M:49F, with 98 children. 1-2 would be M, the rest (96?) F. The next generation is 192 kids, maybe 4 M. Massive population growth, hope the industry can keep up.
Why only 2 kids per woman? Women can easily have 6-10 kids over their fertile period (on average - obviously, women being individuals you'll have the occasional one that can't have kids and the occasional one that has 20).
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by Zaune »

Simon_Jester wrote:Yes.

I think it comes down to the fact that people who spend a lot of time detached from human realities tend to end up, well, detached from human realities. There are things you can't learn about people by reading books, and an even larger number of things you can learn wrong about people by reading the wrong books- or reading the right books the wrong way.

That's a particularly serious occupational hazard when you spend a lot of time on a website full of science fiction fans, harbor not-so-veiled contempt for the 'mere mortals' around you who don't share your views on the apotheosis of the nerds, and spend too much time exposing yourself to stories which greatly oversimplify the dynamics of the human existence for the sake of making it all fit into a novel.

If there isn't enough psychological grounding to keep someone stabilized at that point, the result tends to be a person who simply cannot comprehend people, to varying degrees of incomprehension that get really frightening at the far end.
You can probably add a hefty dose of bitterness towards humanity as a result of being just slightly smarter than one's peer group as well, with all the associated bullying and isolation.
Personally I kind of empathise; I just don't think there's any need for this sort of thing when humanity seems determined to fuck itself up.
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by Skgoa »

Yes, delusions of grandeur might play into it, too. You make a good point.
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

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Zaune wrote:You can probably add a hefty dose of bitterness towards humanity as a result of being just slightly smarter than one's peer group as well, with all the associated bullying and isolation.
Half the time, people like this aren't smarter than the average person; they're just nerdier- they take mental resources that would normally go to one thing and devote it to another, at the expense of social development.

Not all nerds are particularly smart. It's the stupid nerds that produce these disturbing, poorly thought out schemes for fucking humanity up for its own good, because they're neither bright enough to think through their own ideas nor socially grounded enough to just not consider the really horrible and shitty ones.

Human social skills evolved for a reason- they keep us from making a lot of stupid mistakes when dealing with other people, including mistakes that we'd never think of on the fly. Just like walking is too complex a motion to do efficiently if you have to stop and think about every movement, society is too complex to handle efficiently if you're trying to do everything by sheer cognitive force.

I'd argue that it's the people with poor socialization and average or lower intelligence who are particularly likely to wind up with disturbing illusions about society, and disturbing behavior based on those illusions. Because they don't learn from their mistakes, and they don't know enough to avoid them.
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

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Not all nerds are particularly smart. It's the stupid nerds that produce these disturbing, poorly thought out schemes for fucking humanity up for its own good, because they're neither bright enough to think through their own ideas nor socially grounded enough to just not consider the really horrible and shitty ones.
Well, I'd say the people talking of their (weird and borderline-stupid) ideas in places like this, where reasonably skilled experts in most fields dwell, are at least a step above.
They (in theory) learn something in the process, in a far funnier way than just asking for knowledge for all parties involved. :mrgreen:
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

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someone_else wrote:Well, I'd say the people talking of their (weird and borderline-stupid) ideas in places like this, where reasonably skilled experts in most fields dwell, are at least a step above.
The fact that they predictably get their heads handed to them, not just by the experts, but by the non-experts, should tell you something. In this thread, the first person to reply to CN's creepy and stupid idea was Lusankya. Lusankya is a good person and I wouldn't say a word against her, but she's not an expert on population genetics so far as I know. Nor is Duchess, who was next up. Nor Sarevok, nor Stark, nor me.

And yet every one of us mentioned important facts that Chaotic Neutral either hadn't thought of, because was too ignorant or unreflective to recognize the problem... or had thought of, but was enough of an ass to ignore for the sake of posting some bizarre scheme to watch people tell him how stupid it is.

A real expert on population genetics didn't even show up until twenty posts down, by which point all Alyrium could really add was some extra insults, because the amateurs were more than informed enough to point out the many retarded flaws in Chaotic Neutral's idea.
They (in theory) learn something in the process, in a far funnier way than just asking for knowledge for all parties involved. :mrgreen:
That's the catch: I'm not sure these people do learn something. Or that anyone else really learns anything they wouldn't have learned as a child normally.

Or if they do happen to learn something from the idiot idea, it's purely coincidental and the idiot gets no bonus points for it. If a chimpanzee swings through the forum hurling shit at passersby, it doesn't get to take credit if someone happens to learn lessons about cleaning shit off of their clothes. Because that wasn't the chimpanzee's goal, or even part of it; their goal was quite blatantly: "har har I bet this person will look better with some shit on them."

Or, in some cases "Wow, my shit is GREAT, I must share it with the world!" Which is even worse; I'm sure we can all think of some recently banned members who fell under this heading.

And so it's still quite disturbing that people who are supposedly in at least adolescence will make these bizarre, disturbing proposals that don't make any sense. What kind of mind do you have to have to think this is a good idea? For that matter, what kind of mind do you have to have to know that it's a shitty idea and still want to waste people's time with it?
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

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Meh, I don't see the problem in discussing totally dumb ideas, as long as it remains a civil discussion and not a "I will defend THE TRUTH until death" flamewar. It may spawn something cool as a spin-off, or point out some not-so-obvious thing. You never know. 8)

I'm much more worried by those that don't change their mind after seeing enough reliable evidence. :mrgreen: Those that got banned had this kind of attitude, on average.
For that matter, what kind of mind do you have to have to know that it's a shitty idea and still want to waste people's time with it?
This is a forum (on the free Internet), none compels anyone to waste their time with those they deem "unworthy" for some reason.

Do you feel compelled to go pester moon-hoaxers constantly waging flamewars in the comments to the "moon landings footage" youtube videos? Yet they are a reality. :banghead: That I don't like.
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

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Simon_Jester wrote:That's the catch: I'm not sure these people do learn something. Or that anyone else really learns anything they wouldn't have learned as a child normally.

Or if they do happen to learn something from the idiot idea, it's purely coincidental and the idiot gets no bonus points for it. If a chimpanzee swings through the forum hurling shit at passersby, it doesn't get to take credit if someone happens to learn lessons about cleaning shit off of their clothes. Because that wasn't the chimpanzee's goal, or even part of it; their goal was quite blatantly: "har har I bet this person will look better with some shit on them."

Or, in some cases "Wow, my shit is GREAT, I must share it with the world!" Which is even worse; I'm sure we can all think of some recently banned members who fell under this heading.

And so it's still quite disturbing that people who are supposedly in at least adolescence will make these bizarre, disturbing proposals that don't make any sense. What kind of mind do you have to have to think this is a good idea? For that matter, what kind of mind do you have to have to know that it's a shitty idea and still want to waste people's time with it?
Whelp, I'm socially autistic and failed to learn many, many things that most children should have learned, so maybe you can explain this for me in greater detail with your intelligent, informed and educated evidence on the subject?

You're not sure a self-defined subset of people do learn anything from saying something stupid on the internet and being made fun of for it, but that doesn't stop you from grossly overgeneralizing and making brash assumptions in your mockery of someone who made brash assumptions leading to stupid comments? And CN is definitely someone who must fit into your defined subset of socially retarded, below-average intelligence nerds who only learn from their mistakes by accident because he made stupid posts on the internet?
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

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Dude, have you read some of CN's posts? This guy not only openly admitted he would do whatever pleases him even if it meant fucking over random strangers, he actually thought we were lying to ourselves when we said we thought that kind of behavior was repulsive! And then he did it again in a thread he started! Then there is his STGOD posts (I'll save you the Great Wall of China Text) wherein he was surprised that every other player of the game found human experimentation and slavery to be villainous. If anything, Simon is being charitable. The guy is either a deliberate troll, or a goddamn sociopath with no sense of shame or compassion.
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

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No, I hadn't read his other posts. I'll concede on that part.
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by Zaune »

Simon_Jester wrote:Half the time, people like this aren't smarter than the average person; they're just nerdier- they take mental resources that would normally go to one thing and devote it to another, at the expense of social development.
We might be working to different definitions of "average" here; by my admittedly anecdotal reckoning, CN's actually somewhat ahead of the curve in that he can write in adequately spelt, grammatically accurate and mostly-coherent sentences.
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by Skgoa »

Since I am on my way to a master's degree in computer science, I am surrounded by nerds every day. Let me tell you this: most of them think they are better/smarter than they actually are. And its not just the computer scientists, every nerd I ever met has had delusions about how he or she is so much smarter than the average idiot, could get any girl/guy if he/she wanted to.... Strangely enough, people who aren't nerds seem to have an extremely reduced chance of showing this trait. :roll:
And you can even see it on this forum, too.


edit: What I meant to say is: the average nerd s not any smarter than the average non-nerd. But he THINKS he is smarter just because he has memorized all Star Trek trivia, is using Ubuntu linux or other things like that.
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by someone_else »

The guy is either a deliberate troll, or a goddamn sociopath with no sense of shame or compassion.
I'd say he is a deliberate, attention-seeking troll. Otherwise he wouldn't stay in areas so full of "hostiles", but wanking in forums full of like-minded idiots.

If what I think is true, we are all pleasing him in this thread. I'd advise to stop as soon as possible. :mrgreen:
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

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Skgoa wrote:Since I am on my way to become a sports mascot, I am fondled by jocks every day. Let me tell you this: most of them think they are better/stronger than they actually are. And its not just the team, every jock I ever met has had delusions about how he or she is so much better than the average joe, could get any girl/guy if he/she wanted to.... Strangely enough, people who aren't jocks seem to have an extremely reduced chance of showing this trait. :roll:
Fixed. ;)
Skgoa wrote:Since I am on my way to a masters in economics I am surrounded by fops every day. Let me tell you this: most of them think they are better/smarter than they actually are. And its not just the Development Economics, every fop I ever met has had delusions about how he or she is so much superior than the average peon, could get any girl/guy if he/she wanted to.... Strangely enough, people who aren't fops seem to have an extremely reduced chance of showing this trait. :roll:
Fixed again. ;)
Skgoa wrote:And you can even see it on this forum, too.
Never. I'm smarter than all of them because sometimes I can point out that people are wrong and sometimes I'm last to post it threads. Muhehehehehihihihihi that must mean that I win. So since i win I must be smarter smarterer smarterererst. Now I will spawn my legions of doom and soon deploy my plan of global domination. If only everyone understood my greatness and debased themselves before my superior intellect instead of this projection of calling me an idiot all the time. Grumble...
Skgoa wrote:edit: What I meant to say is: the average nerd s not any smarter than the average non-nerd. But he THINKS he is smarter just because he has memorized all Star Trek trivia, is using Ubuntu linux or other things like that.
If I'm allowed to get serious after the silliness above I think that it depends on the definition of smart. Most nerds where I live are more schoolsmart than their peers. Thus giving a positive reinforcement of being 'smarter'. Worse if you got into the schtick with MENSA or similar clubs. However since there is no grades in social skills or connecting different stuff into complex solutions there is never any feedback of being dumb. Instead you get called names by those you know are getting lower grades which gives a great incentive for a us/them mindset.
Its only when you meet really smart people who can handle both worlds that you get a clue what it really should be like.
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by Coalition »

Broomstick wrote:
Coalition wrote:The other stunt would have the extra embryos, and a large ratio of female to male. According to Duchess it could be 40:1, I'd go with 49:1, to make the math easy. Each woman would be expected to have 2 kids, to help the population grow. First generation would be 1M:49F, with 98 children. 1-2 would be M, the rest (96?) F. The next generation is 192 kids, maybe 4 M. Massive population growth, hope the industry can keep up.
Why only 2 kids per woman? Women can easily have 6-10 kids over their fertile period (on average - obviously, women being individuals you'll have the occasional one that can't have kids and the occasional one that has 20).
I was using 2 per woman since 95% of the workforce would be female. I was thinking that would be low enough to reduce interference in their non-child-raising life, but high enough for genetic variety to avoid inbreeding. The number of males would be the primary limit to avoid inbreeding. Perhaps they would be expected/required to donate to sperm banks, and the frozen sperm shipped around to ensure variety? Bit of a "Boy and his Dog" solution, which guys won't like.

You are right though, some women will not want any children, while others will 'compensate'. Perhaps some of the women will donate egg cells so they can use a surrogate mother to raise the child? A scientist working on a critical project might not have asmuch time to raise a child, so she would request permission from the Planning Board to have another woman be a surrogate womb.

Of course, this is getting into the insect hive analogy, where some women are workers, others are breeders, and men are kept around for sperm and expendable labor. Hellstrom's Hive?
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

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HeadCreeps wrote:Whelp, I'm socially autistic and failed to learn many, many things that most children should have learned, so maybe you can explain this for me in greater detail with your intelligent, informed and educated evidence on the subject?

You're not sure a self-defined subset of people do learn anything from saying something stupid on the internet and being made fun of for it, but that doesn't stop you from grossly overgeneralizing and making brash assumptions in your mockery of someone who made brash assumptions leading to stupid comments? And CN is definitely someone who must fit into your defined subset of socially retarded, below-average intelligence nerds who only learn from their mistakes by accident because he made stupid posts on the internet?
You've misunderstood the core of my position. Here's what it comes down to:

Being a nerd (or, for that matter, anything else) does not make you smarter. People who are nerds cannot be assumed to be smart because they are nerds, people who are socially awkward cannot be assumed to be smart because they are socially awkward, and so on. However, unlike being part of most categories*, being a socially awkward nerd encourages you to think that you are smarter than everyone else. To think that the reason that you can't communicate with them is that they're too dumb to understand you, not that you're doing anything that (in theory) you shouldn't be doing.

Socially awkward people who fall into the "nerd" category, but who are also stupid tend to come up with bad, disgusting ideas about how the world should work. Because they assume that everything about the world they don't like exists because other people are stupid. Lacking the understanding to appreciate things like "large numbers of people suffering is bad" makes this much worse than it has to be.

This is where, for example, LionElJonson came from. He's got "nerd" interests (science fiction, space travel, blah blah blah). If LionEl had been smart, he would understand when people pointed out to him that there were practical problems with his ideas. Or deduce, by brute force, that if every time you bring a subject up people at best explain why you're wrong and at worst start despising you... it's time to change the subject.**

But he's not really all that bright or rational: he can't formulate realistic plans, can't change his mind, and won't change the subject. And yet he thinks that he's very rational, and therefore has a right to manipulate others for the sake of his own bizarre ideas about how the world should work... because he's a nerd, and therefore must be more intelligent than all those clueless herds of ordinary people, right?

See the flaw in that reasoning? Liking rocketships, genetic engineering, or computers, doesn't make you automatically smarter. While at the same time it makes it much, much easier for you to imagine doing stupid things with rocketships. Or genetic engineering. Or computers. Or anything else, for that matter.

Chaotic Neutral might be one of these people. More likely he's that sort of person, but less so than he pretends to be, because he wants to use his appearance of being a stupid asshole to taunt and annoy other people with impunity.

*Categories as in things a group of people have in common that gives them some sense of common identity with other people in the category. Like football fans, people who enjoy skydiving, or people who come from small towns.

**This is, in my opinion, something separate from autism-spectrum disorders. There are people who seem to have good interpersonal relationship skills, but are nonetheless too stupid to form rational plans.
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3) As for Chaotic Neutral specifically, I happen to believe he's an idiot for a number of reasons; this thread is far from the only reason I think he's an idiot. This has already been addressed by others.
Zaune wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:Half the time, people like this aren't smarter than the average person; they're just nerdier- they take mental resources that would normally go to one thing and devote it to another, at the expense of social development.
We might be working to different definitions of "average" here; by my admittedly anecdotal reckoning, CN's actually somewhat ahead of the curve in that he can write in adequately spelt, grammatically accurate and mostly-coherent sentences.
I'm not so sure; ability to write clearly isn't always directly tied to intelligence either. Spelling and grammar are strong indicators that a person is not a moron, but they're not perfect. And of course they're meaningless if the person in question is deliberately trolling.
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by HeadCreeps »

Thanks for being patient in your response. I think I see what you're saying. It's a bit more hyperbolic and overly general than what I prefer, but I can't disagree with the general concept. Anecdotally, I've ~14 years of experience in video game forums, where there is universally at least one forum regular who thinks the way you're describing. I've found that directly confronting the person with what's wrong with their opinions on things will universally yield the result you're describing, but taking a more indirect, manipulative approach can convince them that their opinion is wrong by causing the person to "acquire" the new idea as if they were the one who thought of it. It's frustrating and often a waste of effort, but they can be taught in this way.

Your description differs from my particular form of social autism in that the act of speaking to people - especially in real life - is incredibly intimidating. The fear of being wrong is paramount. I will retreat from a given argument and take a claim that I was wrong at face value, at least until I've been given enough time away from the social confrontation to get over the fear and sort the concept out from a distance. At least for now, even just posting here on SD where I know a lot of you are at least as intelligent and far more educated than I am can be downright terrifying.
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by Simon_Jester »

HeadCreeps wrote:Your description differs from my particular form of social autism in that the act of speaking to people - especially in real life - is incredibly intimidating. The fear of being wrong is paramount. I will retreat from a given argument and take a claim that I was wrong at face value, at least until I've been given enough time away from the social confrontation to get over the fear and sort the concept out from a distance. At least for now, even just posting here on SD where I know a lot of you are at least as intelligent and far more educated than I am can be downright terrifying.
There's a tremendous difference between autism and stupidity: they're two different things, that can exist either together or separately.

The problem is that certain people who are autistic, or who are simply poorly socialized without having an actual autism-spectrum problem, are also stupid. Stupidity makes the effects of poor social skills worse, because it undermines the ability to learn from your mistakes.

A smart autistic person who does something that makes them look foolish can be talked to, and convinced that yes, they made a mistake, something went wrong for reasons that make sense now that they think about it that way. I've seen this.

A stupid person, autistic or not, is much harder to teach in this way. Convincing them that their idea is bad requires knocking out whatever stupid assumptions led them to think it was a good idea. And their inability to grasp complexity (not just social complexity, but complexity of any kind) will make it hard to convince them that there's some complication interfering with their ideas working the way they want.

And, of course, if they are stupid and nerdy, the pressure of the subculture leads them to overestimate their own intelligence and fitness to make 'big' decisions about the fate of the world.
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madd0ct0r
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by madd0ct0r »

could we move the discussion of 'why nerd's aren't as good as they think they are.' to a new thread?

it's interesting and pertinent, especially to this forum and especially since i was considering a thread on 'How many humans need to benefit before forced human experimentation becomes moral?'

I think the answer is somewhere between 'never' and 'a lot' but i know I'm on shaky ground here.
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Akhlut
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by Akhlut »

madd0ct0r wrote:could we move the discussion of 'why nerd's aren't as good as they think they are.' to a new thread?

it's interesting and pertinent, especially to this forum and especially since i was considering a thread on 'How many humans need to benefit before forced human experimentation becomes moral?'

I think the answer is somewhere between 'never' and 'a lot' but i know I'm on shaky ground here.
It'd have to be a rather unintrusive and fairly benign experiment that could, say, cure most types of cancer before you start to go from "fairly unethical, but obviously good" to "Tuskegee syphilis experiment unethical."
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

A real expert on population genetics didn't even show up until twenty posts down, by which point all Alyrium could really add was some extra insults, because the amateurs were more than informed enough to point out the many retarded flaws in Chaotic Neutral's idea.
I will admit, I was very pleased that the lot of you were so very efficient.
Whelp, I'm socially autistic and failed to learn many, many things that most children should have learned
So am I, but I still learned these things by brute force and experience. You should have seen the crazy ass ideas I came up with when I was twelve (of course, part of that was being twelve)
You're not sure a self-defined subset of people do learn anything from saying something stupid on the internet and being made fun of for it, but that doesn't stop you from grossly overgeneralizing and making brash assumptions in your mockery of someone who made brash assumptions leading to stupid comments?
I will expand on Simon's post here a bit.

Ok, you have a population of Nerds. People with interests in science fiction, fantasy what have you. For our purpose we are defining Nerds in the most restrictive terms possible, from their literary preferences.

Within this population, you have two traits. Intelligence, we will represent it with IQ, and Social Skills. These, in reality, are independent of eachother. They are not actually correlated, but society in general perceives them to be and as a result, a person on the Low end of the social skills distribution might think they are smarter than they actually are--and on the same token a person on the high end of the intelligence scale may think that their social skills are worse than they are. Social skills can of course improve over time--even for those with Spectrum disorders. For example, I used to be nearly non-functional outside groups of nerds. Now I can associate with non-nerds, making up for any social awkwardness with sheer friendliness and obvious good intentions. It is amazing how many social missteps you can avoid by having obvious good intentions. That way, people correct the mistake and you learn from it rather than getting pissed at you and you never find out why. In any case, I digress.

So, I will look at the various combination we can have here, but focus only on the high and low ends for ease of comparison. There is middle ground here, but the contrast is more useful than the exhaustive combination list. I am also not restricting this to nerds, though you will easily see how it applies to them.

High Intelligence/High Social Skills: These guys are scary. Think Hannibal Lecter, but may have friendlier intentions. These guys are smart enough to think through technical holes in their ideas. They may have a five year old (Who may or may not be caged and forced to work using appropriately timed hits with a shock prod and candy, thus inducing stockholm syndrome) on stand by to let them know if there are any obvious flaws and if they do make a mistake, they learn from it and alter their plans accordingly. Their social skills are good enough that they can convince people to help them, and they can also recognize difficulties arising from human nature. Good real life examples are Julius Caesar, Henry V, Hannibal, and Alexander the Great, Einstein, T.H. Huxely etc.

High Intelligence/Low Social Skills: These guys are less scary. They can think their holes in their plans and accept criticism just like above. However, they cannot generally get people to follow them--which is often more a function of charisma than it is technical skill. They may not be able to readily identify flaws in an idea that arise from human nature, but if one is pointed out to them or they have intensely studied said human nature, they can treat it like any other data point. Probably better pictured as the Royal Vizier behind the person with more force of personality. A good example of this would be me. I have an IQ that breaks the standard tests, but am also on the Spectrum. My emotions operate differently than most people, so while I know what it is like to feel angry, I cannot necessarily generalize to other people, so my ability to empathize is highly inaccurate save in the most obvious of instances (like someone's mom dying). I also cannot easily deal with second or third order effects of interpersonal interactions very well--again, because my empathetic ability is so poor. I have had to learn how to manually ready body language and have to learn how to deal with people the hard way--being the whipping boy for everyone in middle school including the administration. However, I am smart enough to know that this is a problem were I to attempt to institute some sort of plan. I know to consult with others on how to mollify the populace, and am smart enough to know that compromises may need to be made, and that my attempts at micromanaging implementation--particularly the personnel end--should be limited. Other good examples would be Socrates (only because they killed him), Plato, Diogenes, Newton, and Tesla

Low Intelligence/High Social Skills: Do Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush ring any bells? These individuals are often unable to see past some sort of overriding ideology which they accept. The technical details are often overlooked entirely, or for the sake of ideological purity, and even worse, implementation is often micromanaged because stupid people often over-estimate their own competence. What is worse, they are very good at getting people to swallow their line. A good example here is of course the leadership of the Republican Party... and the Democrats for that matter.

Low Intelligence/Low Social Skills:This may be someone who either was never socialized properly or is on the Autism Spectrum, but who lacks the intelligence to compensate. Their ideas are poorly thought out, but they lack the social skills to implement them, and do not accept criticism well. May be dominated by some pre-set ideology, and definitely have over-inflated senses of their own adequacy. Lolbertarians (as opposed to more educated libertarians, or teenage geniuses who lack the experience to know better and are rebelling against sanity :oops: ), most basement nerds, rank and file members of the tea party, most pro-life activists, and Neelix fit this category.
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Re: Would this be possible? Sex ratio

Post by HeadCreeps »

That's definitely an interesting read. I'm afraid my intentions were probably misunderstood, though.

Please remember that my main objection was with the poor intelligence nerds being incapable of learning except by accident and this being based on "I'm not sure, but..." The description then went on to liken these people to chimpanzees. This was the reason why I quoted what I did in my original post. And no, it is not an issue any longer, in my opinion.

I brought up autism originally as a "pet cause", such as it is. It's my fault and I apologize. I do understand a lot of the concepts of EIQ versus normal IQ versus education versus real-world experience, and if I had any questions on the first two, they were surely answered here in this thread.
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