Size of the Imperium's warships

[Ugolino]

There are plenty of sources for them, ranging from the ridiculous (BFG comic ship) to the other extreme (FFG's claiming grand cruisers are only 1 km in length.)

Now we have a canon source for their size, or at least some classes.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h67JpMyr ... age#t=128s[/youtube]

Thoughts? This suggests that Imperial ships do tend towards the larger size of the spectrum...

[Connor MacLeod]

Frankly between the weird way the Exterminatus is carried out (although that is somewhat forgivable given technobabble, even if the way its shown makes it look like the planet has little atmosphere and they're firing magical "make stuff go away" beams. I could swear they were also dropping bombs too.) and the fact that they appear to come out of the warp within close orbital distance of the planet (EG less than a few light seconds) without suffering any casualties, which is supposed to be impossible save for at least some inquisitorial ships (hell even the Grey Knights cannot do that quite so easily To my knowledge) I'm rather skeptical how "authentic" we should take that. I mean fuck, supposedly you can see some of those ships from the GROUND and they look like frigging escorts..

Be fun to count how many ships there are there too..

Also, why are they exterminatus-ing a planet htat still looks largely lush and tropical? I mean is it infested by Orks or Tyranids? Exterminatus is not a casually done thing, the circumstances have to be pretty extreme (all is lost) if it is to be carried out (unless you're an extreme, crazy-type Inquisitor and either don't care about your fate or have the political clout to survive the backlash it will cause.) I mean Kryptman was declared Traitor for doing something similar (albeit on a grander scale I'd admit.)

[Connor MacLeod]

Did a rough scaling myself.. although the vid isn't the best to be doing pixel scaling off of. Assuming an 8000 km or so diameter planet, and I judged the midpoint of the planet right... the big ship in the middle that fires the killing shot could be in the vicinity of 150 km long.. that would probably make the other ones 30-40 km long or so at a very rough guess.. so.. no. I could be off by an order of magnitude (I doubt it, but possible), which would yield more possible figures based on what we know, but that still is pretty odd. For one thing they're depicted at many thousands of kilometers distant from the planet in one shot, yet they appear huge enough to see quite easily with the naked eye and cast shadows on the surface (from thousands of km away.)

What's more, there's literally dozens of ships there, and that's all I can count (About 30 or so) and they look to all be roughly of the same type except that one big one, and they all look to have been bombarding the planet. That's a substantial chunk of warshippage to draw to any one MAJOR planet at any one time, or even a major battle, much less a minor one.

If this is all to be taken with some grain of truth, then Typhon Prime must have some really FRICKING major reason to be bombed out of existence like that. A million people on what looks ot be a not very advanced planet that isn't being taken over by a Chaos incursion or Tyranid swarm... sounds odd.

Also its a pretty piddly exterminatus although we don't see the total effects (and the bombardment at the beginning is something that makes me wonder. Were they shooting at specific locales or subsurface targets or what? There was little ejecta to be had at all.)

[Serafina]

Connor, you might want to look into the newest Deathwatch supplement (Rites of Battle).
I don't have it here right now, so from memory:
The Imperium has specialized "Killships". Those are small (frigate to light cruiser in size), but are capable of exiting the warp close to planets, have some sort of "stealth system" and are capable of Exterminatus in a short timefram and in small groups. They are also almost fully staffed by servitors. A major Deathwatch fortress has dozens of them, capable of "annihilating all life in the sector", tough that is obviously not taking defenses into account.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Also, why are they exterminatus-ing a planet htat still looks largely lush and tropical?

The Blood Ravens Chapter Master and half the Chapter were in cahoots with Nurgle. Typhon Primaris is one of their recruiting homeworlds.

[Ace_of_Spades]

Also, why are they exterminatus-ing a planet htat still looks largely lush and tropical?

The Blood Ravens Chapter Master and half the Chapter were in cahoots with Nurgle. Typhon Primaris is one of their recruiting homeworlds.

Furthermore, the entire subsector is slated for exterminatus, Typhon is just the first in line. The stated reason for exterminatus is the constant xenons and heretical tomfoolery over the last 12 years or so.

[Ugolino]

I'm pretty sure the "million souls" was just part of the prewritten "exterminatus speech", as that section appeared in a different quote for Exterminatus. There were evidently regular daemonic incursions on Typhon, if the introduction's anything to go by.

[Wing Commander MAD]

Basically the Aurellian subsector got hit with a splinter fleet from Leviathan, suffered Ork uprisings and Eldar incursions, and suffered a Chaos incursion (including a planet lost to the warp returning). After a decade of little progress, increased Chaos incursions, the Imperium got fed up and decided to eliminate the subsector.
Spoiler

Alot of this was orchestrated by the Blood Ravens Chief Librarian and Chapter Master Kyras, who had fallen to Chaos along with an unknown portion of the Blood Ravens chapter, to end up with the subsector recieving an Exterminatus to serve as a giant sacrifice to Khorne so that he could ascend to demonhood. He appears to be in league with the Khornate demon contained in the Maledictum (DoW) during Retribution, previously he was in league with the Great Unclean One Ulkair.

PS: Typhon is a feral world, most of whose populatioin was probably wiped out by the Tyranids, as it was the first/only planet that the hive fleet descended upon. There were however apparently thousands of Guardsmen planetside battling the various foes according to Master Sergeant Merrick at the time of the Exterminatus.

[dworkin]

Also, why are they exterminatus-ing a planet htat still looks largely lush and tropical? I mean is it infested by Orks or Tyranids? Exterminatus is not a casually done thing, the circumstances have to be pretty extreme (all is lost) if it is to be carried out (unless you're an extreme, crazy-type Inquisitor and either don't care about your fate or have the political clout to survive the backlash it will cause.) I mean Kryptman was declared Traitor for doing something similar (albeit on a grander scale I'd admit.)

I have this bad feeling about Exterminatus. The absolute last option when subterfuge, Guard, assasians, Marines, bribery, prayer and Titans have been tried. It could easily go the way of 'A six-toed cat, suffer not the mutant, prepare the Exterminatus'.*

*Well, maybe in a parody

[OmegaChief]

Also, why are they exterminatus-ing a planet htat still looks largely lush and tropical? I mean is it infested by Orks or Tyranids? Exterminatus is not a casually done thing, the circumstances have to be pretty extreme (all is lost) if it is to be carried out (unless you're an extreme, crazy-type Inquisitor and either don't care about your fate or have the political clout to survive the backlash it will cause.) I mean Kryptman was declared Traitor for doing something similar (albeit on a grander scale I'd admit.)

I have this bad feeling about Exterminatus. The absolute last option when subterfuge, Guard, assasians, Marines, bribery, prayer and Titans have been tried. It could easily go the way of 'A six-toed cat, suffer not the mutant, prepare the Exterminatus'.*

*Well, maybe in a parody

Well when your sector is infested with Orks, 'nids, Eldar, constant chaos inssurections and what appears to be a Fallen Space Marine chapter, with the Guard Deployments being sent there having an incredeebly high inssurection and fall to chaos rating...

And this has been going on for a decade.

Short of clensing the entire system with fire the Imperium doesn't have many other options here.

[dworkin]

Well when your sector is infested with Orks, 'nids, Eldar, constant chaos inssurections and what appears to be a Fallen Space Marine chapter, with the Guard Deployments being sent there having an incredeebly high inssurection and fall to chaos rating...

And this has been going on for a decade.

Short of clensing the entire system with fire the Imperium doesn't have many other options here.

Sounds fairly normal for 40K. It's supposed to be about Orks, nids, Eldar, Chaos, Marines and Guard all locked in desperate, endless battles.* And only a decade? That's nothing really for the IOM to get even mildly concerned about. They lose contact due to bereaucratic misfiles with worlds for longer periods. Space Marine chapters visit their recruiting worlds on longer periods than a century.

*And anyone else I missed. And it should be grim and dark too.

[Wing Commander MAD]

This could also be the result of some inquisitor with a beef against the BR, the secretative nature of the chapter probably sets of some alarm bells in every inquisitor. Adrastia is there only at the behest of Angelos investigating Kyras and Lord General Castor seems to be of the opinion that the sub sector should be saved as it is valuable as training ground for the IoM forces. Maybe the subsector is close to something fairly important and the IoM don't want to let it be used as a staging ground?

Regardless, Relic has said that GW has been looking over their shoulders the entire time, so the events have the approval of GW. Actually, GW has apparently overseeing develop of the Dawn of War franchise to such a degree that I believe Relic has stated they were forced to change elements during the design stage of Retribution at the orders of Games Workshop. Make of that what you will.

[Azron_Stoma]

so can we get anything remotely close to a consensus for 40k ship sizes?

I mean I've read sources claiming a Retribution classes are 5km long, 7km, or 15 km long.

I recall the Phalanx is supposed to be 150km long, as the Fortress Monastery ship of the Imperial Fists.

[Azron_Stoma]

Apparently there were some books that gave solid numbers back in 2009/this past June. A W40k role playing game called "Rogue Trader" put the Cobras at 1.5km and the Lunar class cruisers etc at 5km. They also give single digit g accelerations (7.6 for Cobras, 2.5 for Lunars), 10s of thousands crew (Cobras with 15,000 Lunars with 95,000) and millions of tons mass. How admissible these figures are however I have no idea since it's not published by Games Workshop. Instead it is published by a group called "Fantasy Flight Games"

[IvanTih]

Apparently there were some books that gave solid numbers back in 2009/this past June. A W40k role playing game called "Rogue Trader" put the Cobras at 1.5km and the Lunar class cruisers etc at 5km. They also give single digit g accelerations (7.6 for Cobras, 2.5 for Lunars), 10s of thousands crew (Cobras with 15,000 Lunars with 95,000) and millions of tons mass. How admissible these figures are however I have no idea since it's not published by Games Workshop. Instead it is published by a group called "Fantasy Flight Games"

That is cotradicted by other sources which us 0.75c as a attack speed,Flight of the Eisenstein has Phanlanx moving at 0.75c and we have an Assassin ships accelerating to 0.25c in moments in Nemesis.

On the other hand we've go low ends which give us single Gs.

[Agent Sorchus]

It isn't contradicted, because the Rouge Trader Values are max sustainable, not absolute max. Either way you can get up to .25c easily with a couple G if given long enough to accelerate so don't try and pull a quick one by discrediting it with out considering how long they were accelerating in your other sources. (Sides the fact that the flight of the Eisenstein has three different accounts of it in the fluff, and none of them match. Or that the Eisenstein would have more than enough reason to break the normal limits of their ship)

[PainRack]

I have this bad feeling about Exterminatus. The absolute last option when subterfuge, Guard, assasians, Marines, bribery, prayer and Titans have been tried. It could easily go the way of 'A six-toed cat, suffer not the mutant, prepare the Exterminatus'.*

*Well, maybe in a parody

Captain Davion Thule supposedly brought the suspicion of Segmentum Command as well as the Inquistors on the Blood Ravens after his victory on Kronus, so, this isn't really a last minute thing.

I would question why Typhon Prime is the one being exterminated as opposed to Aurelia, but once Daemons start popping into the picture, combined with the pyschic potential of the Blood Ravens chapter, seriously, what's the beef with exterminatus here?

The very part about daemons popping up combined with uncontrolled psykers is the very rationale for the existence of Exterminatus.

[White Haven]

Depending on where the Exterminatus fleet is coming from, Typhon could just be the nearest target, since it clearly isn't the most critical. Well, it is for the Eldar, but those secretive little cunts haven't let anyone but themselves know that.

In any case, sequence of events goes roughly thus.

1-Inquisition already suspicious of Blood Raven activities pre-Chaos Rising.
2-Captain Gabriel Angelos phones the Inquisition post-Chaos Rising to say 'Btw, my chapter-master (who is also Chief Librarian) is all manner of fucked up.
3-Whole subsector going to shit anyway.
4-Fuck it, just wipe it out, it's not a very populated subsector anyway.

[OmegaChief]

Not to mention that taking it out will several hurt nearly all the enemies of the Imperium, at least locally, at the cost of a single subsector.

Quite the bargin!

[Darksider]

Won't taking out an entire subsector hurt the Imperium also though? Especially since in DoW2 there were special lost-tech factories throughout the sector that you had do defend.

[OmegaChief]

Given the state of the sector at the time of Retrebution? It may as well already have been lost.

[SylasGaunt]

I'm pretty sure the "million souls" was just part of the prewritten "exterminatus speech", as that section appeared in a different quote for Exterminatus. There were evidently regular daemonic incursions on Typhon, if the introduction's anything to go by.

Actually if you look at the planet info for typhon it's got about a million people on it but then it's the least populated world in the sector with the exception of the Aurelia IIRC.

[Wing Commander MAD]

I'm pretty sure the "million souls" was just part of the prewritten "exterminatus speech", as that section appeared in a different quote for Exterminatus. There were evidently regular daemonic incursions on Typhon, if the introduction's anything to go by.

Actually if you look at the planet info for typhon it's got about a million people on it but then it's the least populated world in the sector with the exception of the Aurelia IIRC.

I'm assuming your refereing to the bit in the campaign at the start of DoW 2, as I have serious doubts there are that many left by the time of Retribution, what with all the orks, eldar, chaos insurrection and feral 'nids running about for a decade. The only humans I'd expect to find left alive on Typhon by the time of Retribution are Imperial Guard units that seemed to be stationed there trying to hunt down the remaining Tyranids. Technically the least populated world in the subsector should be Cyrene, having already undergone Exterminatus.

[PainRack]

Actually, is there any other incidents where the Imperium has unleashed exterminatus over multiple worlds at the same time? The only thought that comes to mind is the hundreds of worlds done by Inquisitor Kryptman.

[Todeswind]

The entire strategy used to defeat tyranid hive fleets is wholly dependent upon the use of exterminatus to cause biomass denial so I would assume so.