Organ Donation After Execution

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Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Broomstick »

I came across this Op/Ed piece in the New York Times and found it interesting.
Giving Life After Death Row
By CHRISTIAN LONGO
Published: March 5, 2011

EIGHT years ago I was sentenced to death for the murders of my wife and three children. I am guilty. I once thought that I could fool others into believing this was not true. Failing that, I tried to convince myself that it didn’t matter. But gradually, the enormity of what I did seeped in; that was followed by remorse and then a wish to make amends.

I spend 22 hours a day locked in a 6 foot by 8 foot box on Oregon’s death row. There is no way to atone for my crimes, but I believe that a profound benefit to society can come from my circumstances. I have asked to end my remaining appeals, and then donate my organs after my execution to those who need them. But my request has been rejected by the prison authorities.

According to the United Network for Organ Sharing, there are more than 110,000 Americans on organ waiting lists. Around 19 of them die each day. There are more than 3,000 prisoners on death row in the United States, and just one inmate could save up to eight lives by donating a healthy heart, lungs, kidneys, liver and other transplantable tissues.

There is no law barring inmates condemned to death in the United States from donating their organs, but I haven’t found any prisons that allow it. The main explanation is that Oregon and most other states use a sequence of three drugs for lethal injections that damages the organs. But Ohio and Washington use a larger dose of just one drug, a fast-acting barbiturate that doesn’t destroy organs. If states would switch to a one-drug regimen, inmates’ organs could be saved.

Another common concern is that the organs of prisoners may be tainted by infections, H.I.V. or hepatitis. Though the prison population does have a higher prevalence of such diseases than do non-prisoners, thorough testing can easily determine whether a prisoner’s organs are healthy. These tests would be more reliable than many given to, say, a victim of a car crash who had signed up to be a donor; in the rush to transplant organs after an accident, there is less time for a full risk analysis.

There are also fears about security — that, for example, prisoners will volunteer to donate organs as part of an elaborate escape scheme. But prisoners around the country make hospital trips for medical reasons every day. And in any case, executions have to take place on prison grounds, so the organ removal would take place there as well.

Aside from these logistical and health concerns, prisons have a moral reason for their reluctance to allow inmates to donate. America has a shameful history of using prisoners for medical experiments. In Oregon, for example, from 1963 to 1973, many inmates were paid to “volunteer” for research into the effects of radiation on testicular cells. Some ethicists believe that opening the door to voluntary donations would also open the door to abuse. And others argue that prisoners are simply unable to make a truly voluntary consent.

But when a prisoner initiates a request to donate with absolutely no enticements or pressure to do so, and if the inmate receives the same counseling afforded every prospective donor, there is no question in my mind that valid organ-donation consent can be given.

I am not the only condemned prisoner who wants the right to donate his organs. I have discussed this issue with almost every one of the 35 men on Oregon’s death row, and nearly half of them expressed a wish to have the option of donating should their appeals run out.

I understand the public’s apprehension. And I know that it could look as if what I really want are extra privileges or a reduction in my sentence. After all, in a rare and well-publicized case last December, Gov. Haley Barbour of Mississippi released two sisters who had been sentenced to life in prison so that one could donate a kidney to the other. But I don’t expect to leave this prison alive. I am seeking nothing but the right to determine what happens to my body once the state has carried out its sentence.

If I donated all of my organs today, I could clear nearly 1 percent of my state’s organ waiting list. I am 37 years old and healthy; throwing my organs away after I am executed is nothing but a waste.

And yet the prison authority’s response to my latest appeal to donate was this: “The interests of the public and condemned inmates are best served by denying the petition.”

Many in the public, most inmates, and especially those who are dying for lack of a healthy organ, would certainly disagree.

Christian Longo, a prisoner at Oregon State Penitentiary, is the founder of the organization Gifts of Anatomical Value From Everyone.
Mr. Longo is an alumni of the FBI's Top Ten Most Wanted List, as related in this short blurb courtesy of Wikipedia

He makes a moving argument for utilizing the organs of death row inmates after execution and I really don't need to add to that. I will note, however, the following arguments against such a practice:

1) Execution renders the organs unusable
- Mr. Longo addresses this in his essay. Modern technology would allow the execution of prisoners in such a manner as to leave the organs undamaged and usable.

2) The "Jigsaw Man" slippery slope.
The idea here is that by making the use of organs of executed criminals available society might lower the bar for execution.

3) Capital punishment is immoral and wrong.
This means that if we really shape up as a society the point becomes moot, as there won't be executed criminals to "part out".

4) People won't want parts from criminals. Well, maybe some won't, but I'm sure others would have no problems with it. There are no doubt people who don't want parts from the opposite gender or another race, too, but we don't let that stand in the way of transplants, do we?

5) Prison populations have a higher rate of disease and organ damage. Again, Mr. Longo addresses this. Use of organs from the condemned would allow for a longer and more thorough testing period than is possible with deceased donors, which would probably reduce this problem to zero, or as close as we're ever going to get to it.

Anyhow - offered for your contemplation and comment. Is it moral to take organs from executed criminals? Does doing so encourage capital punishment? What about coercion of prisoners?
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Rabid »

Q : Is it moral ?
A : Who care ? A life is saved by the will of someone who want to redeem himself. The person is volunteer to save a life. You have to be a fucking moron to deny the patient an organ, and to deny the prisoner the right to benefit Society while redeeming for his crimes.

Q : Does it it risk to encourage the continuation of death sentences practice ?
A : The point is moot. As long as there will be death sentence, it is only moral to offer this choice to the poor souls that are going to die, for them to find comfort in the utility of their fate, for them to understand that is not just institutionalized revenge but a real benefit to the Society they harmed. The only question of interest is : what will it take to end the practice of Death Sentences ? [1]


[1] : My suggestion : commute all death sentences to life sentence, and offer the choice to the prisoners to choose to... end... their sentence (all sentences, not just life ones) by doing something useful and saving a live. Just make sure that the choice isn't forced on them.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Serafina »

Anyhow - offered for your contemplation and comment. Is it moral to take organs from executed criminals? Does doing so encourage capital punishment? What about coercion of prisoners?
The only problem i see here is the possibility of prisoners being exectued for their organs (and yes, that does happen). And of course i think that capital punishment is wrong anyway, getting this benefit from it would not change that.

By the way, i think organ donation should be a default assumption for every deceased person, not something you have specifically agree too. I understand that many people do NOT want to be organ donors, but those could fill papers specifically stating that they do not want do so.
After all, a deceased person really won't miss those organs. It would very likely increase the number of available organs - and it would also free any relatives from making that decision when no papers exist, unless the relatives already have or know of a strong position against donation.

This would extend to people who are executed for crimes. I won't speculate how likely a person on death row is to donate organs out of their own free will (which they still have here).
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by someone_else »

Is it moral to take organs from executed criminals?
Yes, if they gave their consent or didn't give a fuck, no if they didn't give their consent.
Does doing so encourage capital punishment?
It is very complex to use this system for personal gain. It can be done, but is pretty complex.
I'd answer No.
What about coercion of prisoners?
Coercion to do what? To donate organs? I'd rather avoid this. I would instead encourage them by offering something reasonable and legal they ask in exchange (for them or for the people outside).
My suggestion : commute all death sentences to life sentence, and offer the choice to the prisoners to choose to... end... their sentence (all sentences, not just life ones) by doing something useful and saving a live. Just make sure that the choice isn't forced on them.
While it doesn't sound bad in theory, it is a pain to keep this from going bad very fast in practice.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Rabid »

someone_else wrote:
My suggestion : commute all death sentences to life sentence, and offer the choice to the prisoners to choose to... end... their sentence (all sentences, not just life ones) by doing something useful and saving a live. Just make sure that the choice isn't forced on them.
While it doesn't sound bad in theory, it is a pain to keep this from going bad very fast in practice.
Well you could offer the guy/gal three choices :

1 - Do its sentence like it was originally intended.
2 - Participate to some "reinsertion program" / "general interest work" / whatever. The goal being for them to do something useful for Society, while having a chance to go out of Jail if they show exemplary behaviour.
3 - End their misery while saving multiple lives.

So you have the normal option, the "work sets you free" option, and the "kill me please" option. Every of these three choices has to be made freely and fully informed by the inmate.

You could imagine for the third choice to be available only for the cases where the time to be served in jail is superior to 10 years, or something like that. And the second choice to be denied to people that are determined to be a durable danger to society (serial killers, pedophiles, etc : the worst kind of scum).
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by erik_t »

someone_else wrote:
Does doing so encourage capital punishment?
It is very complex to use this system for personal gain. It can be done, but is pretty complex.
I'd answer No.
The concern is societal gain, not immediate personal gain. Even if I don't need a replacement organ right now, I have a vested interest in making sure that there is an ample supply of spare parts. I will potentially vote accordingly, as will many of my peers. You may end up with harder-line politicians and more folks on death row.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by bilateralrope »

2) The "Jigsaw Man" slippery slope. The idea here is that by making the use of organs of executed criminals available society might lower the bar for execution.
Would that problem go away if sentencing someone to death or them filing an appeal causes any previous consent to be automatically withdrawn ?

Meaning you can't execute an an organ donor for their organs as they have a high chance of refusing consent if they think that is what you are doing.

Or an even simpler solution: The prisoner can't give consent until they have stopped fighting the conviction. I was initially thinking of not asking for consent until they are on the execution table, but it would be better to have the consent far enough in advance that the organ recipients can be prepared.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

I see no problem with death row inmates donating organs after their execution. I fail to see how it is any different to me making an informed decision to donate my organs in the event of my death.

Personally, if I needed an organ, say a kidney, to survive and I knew it came from an executed man, I would feel no revulsion or whatever. I can't hold the kidney responsible for what the person did. I think I would feel grateful that the person was kind enough to make his last act to save lives.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Rabid »

About the chemicals used in execution somehow damaging the organs... Wouldn't the problem be solved by using a guillotine, or would it be judged a "cruel and inhuman punishment", or just un-American ? [1]

Or is it just the fact that in popular perception, everything coming from a criminal is suspect and can't be any good ? That we (unconsciously?) want to deny any humanity to criminals ?



[1] : Nevermind that it was created to be a quick and efficient way to humanly end the life of a condemned, and not a showy and unnecessary long thing like the electric chair or lethal injection, or hanging in the days it was created, which was very prone to failure...
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by K. A. Pital »

If you are going to kill someone, you might as well take his organs. Just ensure capital punishment only applies to serial offenders, like serial rapists or murderers. That would exclude the chance of set-up (nobody sets someone up twice).
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Zixinus »

I wonder what will Lady Tevar will say. I wouldn't be surprised if Nitram would happily take the liver of a serial killer if it means no more emergency visits to a hospital.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by D.Turtle »

Rabid wrote:About the chemicals used in execution somehow damaging the organs...
That problem is addressed in the article. The method of execution using a "cocktail" of three chemicals damages organs. There is an alternative method used by other states that uses a single chemical that leaves the organs undamaged and usable.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Rabid »

Yes, yes, I have read the paper. But you have to admit that such a mechanical mean of execution would be even... cleaner... as far as the state of the interesting organs is concerned : no need to worry about an eventual chemical contamination or something like that. *is disgusted by his own thoughts placing a human as some sort of cattle to be slaughtered*

Well, theorically, at least... The desirable outcome would be for Death Penalty to be abolished, or reserved to the most extreme and hopeless cases ; and for the general population to increase its organ donation rate.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by someone_else »

erik_t wrote:The concern is societal gain, not immediate personal gain. Even if I don't need a replacement organ right now, I have a vested interest in making sure that there is an ample supply of spare parts. I will potentially vote accordingly, as will many of my peers. You may end up with harder-line politicians and more folks on death row.
To have an "ample supply of spare parts" you would need to death-sentence lots of people.
And I would never think like that.
But I understand others could. :wtf:
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Broomstick »

Rabid wrote:Yes, yes, I have read the paper. But you have to admit that such a mechanical mean of execution would be even... cleaner... as far as the state of the interesting organs is concerned : no need to worry about an eventual chemical contamination or something like that.
When all the mechanical bits work properly, yes, it's "clean" in a sense - but guillotine's have been known to malfunction. Having a large blade embedded only halfway through your neck, for example.... not good.

The three-drug cocktail damages the organs as well as potentially leaving enough pharmaceuticals behind in the organs to cause problems for the recipient - it really is amassive overdose.

But it seems folks are missing the obvious here - if you're going to part out the criminal you actually don't need to kill him first. Put him under anesthesia as for any operation, remove the organs, then shut off life support when you're done. Organs are unharmed. Death is certain.

Of course, there is the detail about US doctors not being permitted to take any part in an execution.....
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Rabid »

Broomstick wrote:Of course, there is the detail about US doctors not being permitted to take any part in an execution.....
- Make inmate sign a "no reanimation discharge" or a paper in the same vein
- Operate
- Take organs
- Dismiss doctors
- Pull the plug

Is there some loophole in this style that could be used ? [1]


[1] [N&P TROLL] : At least as long as some court don't rule against something like that... How in hell your Judiciary system can have Legislative powers ?! Haven't you heard of something called "Separation of Powers" ?!
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Broomstick »

Nope - that's still taking part in the execution process.

Many doctor organizations will boot a doctor out if he takes part in any aspect of an execution. Many state licensing boards will suspend or take away a doctor's license of the same thing. And many doctors have deep moral objections to doing that.

That's why executions are, in general, performed by non-medical people trained to operate the machinery. No doubt this does play into why executions sometimes go wrong.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by parkx032 »

For readers who want to pursue these questions further,
go to an Internet portal called ORGAN DONATION AFTER EXECUTION:
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~parkx032/P-ORGAN.html
I believe all of the issues raised so far have been addressed here.

James Leonard Park, advocate of organ donation from prisoners on death row.
PS: We also have a Facebook Page: PRISONER ORGAN DONATION.

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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

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I find this advertisement to be acceptable.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Singular Intellect »

Broomstick wrote:That's why executions are, in general, performed by non-medical people trained to operate the machinery. No doubt this does play into why executions sometimes go wrong.
It's sad that society is so ignorant and stupid that flawless, humane methods of execution that would preserve the body perfectly have existed for quite some time go largely unnoticed. Nitrogen gas induced hypoxia would be a perfect option for execution that doesn't harm or damage the body's organs, including the brain itself. It's been used for animal research for many years now, because apparently rigorously enforcing humane killing of animals is a higher priority.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Hamstray »

Singular Intellect wrote: It's sad that society is so ignorant and stupid that flawless, humane methods of execution that would preserve the body perfectly have existed for quite some time go largely unnoticed.
the death penalty simply isn't humane in the first place, that's why humane methods of execution are uncalled for.
It is only consistent that those people in favor of it resort to methods which are as cruel as they can get away with.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Singular Intellect »

Hamstray wrote:the death penalty simply isn't humane in the first place, that's why humane methods of execution are uncalled for.
It is only consistent that those people in favor of it resort to methods which are as cruel as they can get away with.
Strange, I'm in favour of the death penalty and strongly advocate the most humane way of execution possible.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Alphawolf55 »

I see no problem with letting prisoners donate, but then again I believe that everyone should be automatically considered an organ donor and that you should have to opt out if you don't want them donated, rather then opt in if you do.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Rabid »

For information :

In Soviet Gallia In France, you are automatically considered as an organ donor, unless you are registered on the "Registre National des Refus" (register of the peoples who don't want to give their organs after their death). That or unless your family / husband refuse, if you don't have your "Carte Nationale de Donneur d'Organe" (a card that specifically say : "I give my organs") to attest your will to give them.
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Re: Organ Donation After Execution

Post by Serafina »

Rabid wrote:For information :

In Soviet Gallia In France, you are automatically considered as an organ donor, unless you are registered on the "Registre National des Refus" (register of the peoples who don't want to give their organs after their death). That or unless your family / husband refuse, if you don't have your "Carte Nationale de Donneur d'Organe" (a card that specifically say : "I give my organs") to attest your will to give them.
That's pretty much the system i would like to see in Germany and other nations or enforced by UNIT
If you really object to organ donation, it should be your responsibility to declare it.
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