We must suffocate so the terrorists can't kill us.

[MKSheppard]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42015889/ns/travel-news

Citing security concerns, the federal government in secrecy last month ordered every airline in the United States to remove emergency oxygen in every lavatory on all 6,000 domestic commercial aircraft.

Under Air Worthiness Directive 2011-04-09, made public this week, the Federal Aviation Administration directed all airlines to disable the lavatory oxygen generators to "eliminate a potential safety and security vulnerability.”

That means that if there’s a sudden loss of cabin pressure, now only those passengers at their seats will have oxygen flowing to the masks that drop down from the ceiling.

“I’m in shock,” said Kate Hanni, executive director of Flyersrights.org, a nonprofit airline passengers' rights organization. “We get reports of mid-air decompression events all the time. So now going to the bathroom on a commercial flight can kill you? I’m panicking just thinking about this.”

Although rapid decompression is rare, it does happen. In October, for example, oxygen masks were deployed on an American Airlines flight enroute from Miami to Boston after the cabin lost pressure when a two-foot hole tore open in the plane's fuselage . The crew declared an emergency, and the plane safely returned to Miami. Passengers were panicked, but no one was injured.

But under the FAA's new directive, any passengers who happen to be in the airplane restroom should such an event occur would no longer have immediate access to oxygen.

According to the FAA, the airlines completed disabling the oxygen generators in the lavatories of all 6,000 U.S. aircraft on March 4. The FAA said in a statement released Thursday that it delayed informing the public about this action because it was concerned about keeping travelers “as safe and secure as possible.”

The agency told NBC News that the action was done proactively in response not to a specific threat but to general concerns that a terrorist could use the lavatory oxygen to start a fire or ignite a bomb.

“Had the FAA publicized the existence of this security vulnerability prior to airlines fixing it, thousands of planes across the U.S. and the safety of passengers could have been at risk,” the FAA stated.

The agency noted that it is working with aircraft manufacturers “to design, certify, and install a new lavatory oxygen system” on all aircraft, adding that “if there is a sudden loss of cabin pressure, pilots are already trained to guide the aircraft to a safe, breathable altitude as quickly as possible. Flight attendants are also already trained to assist passengers to quickly access oxygen — including those in the lavatories.”

Sara Keagle, a flight attendant who blogs at TheFlyingPinto.com, said flight attendants had not yet received training on the new directive but added that they already have access to portable oxygen bottles that could be used to assist any passengers in a lavatory.

“If a decompression should occur, flight attendants are trained to get on oxygen immediately,” she said. “Once it is safe, we would don a portable oxygen bottle and check the cabin, including the lavs, to make sure everyone was OK.”

But Arthur Alan Wolk, an aviation safety expert and licensed jet pilot, said: “Part of the idea of the oxygen mask dropping from the ceiling during loss of cabin pressure is to keep the occupants of the main cabin alive until an airplane gets down to a breathable altitude. By eliminating the source of oxygen for the unlucky souls in the bathroom, you’ve just killed those people.”

Airlines were expected to begin informing passengers about the lack of lavatory oxygen generators on seatback briefing cards, during the verbal passenger safety briefing presentation and on signs posted in airplane bathrooms.

--------------------------------------------

I can't wait till the family/next of kin of someone who dies in a decompression event sues the government for this -- the odds of that happening are pretty good over the next 2-3 years; given that we have about 50 decompression events a year globally...

[MKSheppard]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/27149598/detail.html

When Local 2 Investigates began digging into this story, there was no record of Air Worthiness Directive 2011-04-09 on the FAA's website. The number sequence conspicuously skipped that entry. The FAA source said the reason for the secrecy is simple: They wanted to make the changes before the wrong people realized a potential vulnerability.

Tuesday morning, after learning of our story, an FAA spokesperson contacted us to say the missing directive had just been posted. The agency also issued a statement which reads in part: "Rapid decompression events on commercial aircraft are extremely rare. If there is a sudden loss of cabin pressure, pilots are already trained to guide the aircraft to a safe, breathable altitude as quickly as possible. Flight attendants are also already trained to assist passengers to quickly access oxygen - including those in the lavatories."

The air generator removal was completed on 6,000 airplanes as of last Friday.

----------------------

BTW; the last major decompression event was on an American Airlines 757 bound for Boston last year. Two foot hole, no less. Are you feeling safer?

[Losonti Tokash]

Did these idiots really just remove oxygen from airport bathrooms based on the superstition that oxygen bottles explode?

[MKSheppard]

They eliminated the bathroom drop down masks. The Masks are powered by chemical candles similar in composition to a road flare; except when they burn, they generate oxygen.

Clearly, a TERRARIST could break out the oxygen generator and cause havoc with it from the safety of the bathroom; so we must remove this safety device.

[weemadando]

Fuck man.

Wait until someone tells them that avgas is flammable.

[Sea Skimmer]

Not very relevant to jet aircraft. Jet-A is far far less dangerous to the point that it is used as protective liquid loading on aircraft carriers. AVGAS had to go in armored tanks in comparison. The fear here in any case is pretty clearly that someone could fill the bathroom with O2, then explode it like a fuel air bomb.

[Simon_Jester]

"The world should know! If this is what we do- If this is how America chooses to fight- THEN WE ARE ALWAYS WRONG! WRONG AND DUMB!"

Shroominess aside, I think this is a great illustration of the basic psychosis that has gripped airline security since 9/11.

There is no evidence of a rational cost-benefit calculation: did anyone actually sit down and work out that allowing some potential enemy who might get on a plane somewhere, some day to use oxygen is more dangerous than denying oxygen to anyone who happens to be in the bathroom at the time of a decompression incident? Or did someone just sit down, have some paranoid ravings due to a bad acid flashback from the '70s, and arbitrarily decide that this was a big enough problem to justify risking people's lives? How can we ever know, given that the process the TSA uses to make decisions is unaccountable and unauditable and, above all, classified?

This decision was made without public input, and the public has no useful means of recourse. And as yet, there has been no popular rally against this- they say they're fighting on our behalf, and we believe them, even though they hurt us far more than they allow us to see them hurting our enemies.

We were told to sacrifice freedom for security, obeyed unblinkingly, lost both... and have yet to demonstrate that we are, as a people, worthy of either.

[Thanas]

Well, thank god my chances of flying a domestic US flight are pretty slim.

[Thanas]

Warning: Complete layman question.

Wouldn't it be more easier to just armor the oxygen tank or install some sort of valve in it that prevents an explosion?

[Serafina]

Warning: Complete layman question.

Wouldn't it be more easier to just armor the oxygen tank or install some sort of valve in it that prevents an explosion?

Or, alternatively/additionally, make sure it can't be tampered with or put an alarm on it if it is tampered with?

I'm also curious whether terrorits would have even THOUGHT of that possibility, if not for that publicity it got now.

[Sarevok]

FAA PDF document from 2003 explaining oxygen generators and dangers they may pose

Apparently oxygen generators use chemical reactions to produce oxygen instead of carrying it as a compressed gas. The reaction can produced up to 260 °C temperatures. Improper or accidental activation of oxygen generators have led to crashes in the past.

[Sea Skimmer]

Warning: Complete layman question.

Wouldn't it be more easier to just armor the oxygen tank or install some sort of valve in it that prevents an explosion?

The system has to supply enough O2 to keep a human alive when the compartment depressurizes at 35,000ft. I really doubt you can expel enough O2 to do that without being a flammable risk in the process. I'm not certain if the fuel air bomb risk would be real or not normally, but if you block up the bathroom vents it becomes very real. The air is normally 21% oxygen. Oxygen concentrations above 24% start to create a highly elevated fire risk, not that big a leap to make. So really the only way to control the risk without removing the oxygen system is to make the system only remote activate, but that would run totally contrary to the system emergency oxygen systems are designed to operate which is dead simple and user activated on demand.

[PeZook]

This isn't going far enough.

Airplane bathroom are an unacceptable security risk. They should be elliminated and replaced by individual waste disposal systems distributed to all passengers before the flight.

A small price to pay for FREEDOM.

Alternatively, it may be enough to simply remove the lockable doors and have flight attendants observe the suspects and make sure the passengers are not doing TERRORISTIC things in the bathrooms.

[Sarevok]

Alternatively, it may be enough to simply remove the lockable doors and have flight attendants observe the suspects and make sure the passengers are not doing TERRORISTIC things in the bathrooms.

No one needs THAT mental image.

[Metahive]

I wonder if eventually they'll only allow people to fly while unconscious. I'm not even being snarky here, I firmly await that some day some guy will make exactly this suggestion.

People really need to reign into their paranoia.

[Sarevok]

I wonder if eventually they'll only allow people to fly while unconscious. I'm not even being snarky here, I firmly await that some day some guy will make exactly this suggestion.

Well if we lived in a science fiction world where people could be put into stasis that would actually be a great idea. Flying would be cheaper and less tiring.

Speaking of irrational risks has anyone considered the fact that fundamentalist organizations have billionaire backings and hundreds of thousands of members. They can just buy 100 seats on a commercial flight and just overpower the aircrew and passengers with sheer numbers alone.

[Thanas]

^Yeah, in a world where the words "security screening" do not exist.

[Sarevok]

But Thanas do people buying plane tickets really get screened that much ? It is not like applying for immigration or even getting a student visa. I have never heard of anyone being refused passage by an airline on security grounds.

Though to be fair something tells me due to some trivial and simple reason the idea of zerg rushing a plane is utterly impossible.

[Thanas]

But Thanas do people buying plane tickets really get screened that much ?

Yes? You need to provide passport, destination, address and a whole other lot of personal data.

It is not like applying for immigration or even getting a student visa. I have never heard of anyone being refused passage by an airline on security grounds.

Since getting a visa is part of the security screening, of course it matters. Also, there is the no-fly list.

[Metahive]

Sarevok, never heard of the wacky hijinks of the TSA, who also once disallowed a toddler to fly just because he shared the last name with a suspected terrorist, really?

Let me englighten you:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic ... _suspects/

[General Zod]

But Thanas do people buying plane tickets really get screened that much ?

Yes? You need to provide passport, destination, address and a whole other lot of personal data.

It is not like applying for immigration or even getting a student visa. I have never heard of anyone being refused passage by an airline on security grounds.

Since getting a visa is part of the security screening, of course it matters. Also, there is the no-fly list.

The no-fly list has been repeatedly demonstrated to be poorly maintained and laughable. I mean you really can't take it seriously when they put currently active US soldiers on there because they served a tour in the Middle East, and there's been numerous incidents of children being put on there.

[PeZook]

The ridiculous TSA security hijinks do not really prevent zerg rushing a plane, simple logistics do. You need to provide fake documents backgrounds and visas for 100 guys. Money is one thing, but such a large purchase of fake ID is going to attract attention.

Also 100 guys = 100 failure points for the operation.

[Elheru Aran]

Um... for a domestic flight? All I ever had to do was provide credit card, and then show a driver's license at the desk to collect my ticket and pass. No muss, no fuss. Now I suppose they might run my name at the security checkpoint to see if anything pops up, I'll grant you that... on the other hand I'm a fairly average-looking white male not associated with anything more subversive than this forum. So I'm not sure how applicable my anecdotal evidence is... just thought I'd point out that a pretty good number of people do have a fairly easy security experience.

[PeZook]

Yes, and I assume you are going to magically appear in the united states to take that domestic flight?

[Phantasee]

Well, thank god my chances of flying a domestic US flight are pretty slim.

At this point I'm more than willing to eat the extra cost of avoiding a connection through the US, and I'll be driving to visit my relatives next time. Which probably means I won't see my cousin in Florida anytime soon, but California isn't too far, and thankfully I have cousins on both sides of the Windsor/Detroit border and the Vancouver/Seattle border.

Fortunately the extra cost of connecting through Vancouver or Toronto/Montreal is usually worth it in terms of time saved. Why so many "cheap flights" feel the need to route me through MSP, Houston, Chicago, Denver, or even better, a combination of two or more, is beyond me.