Earthquake off Japan

[Andras]

A nuke Eng on another board posted this:

My guess is the fuel melted down. The fuel rods are made of zirconium. When it gets hot enough and melts down, it chemically reacts with water and releases a large amount of hydrogen gas. If the gas escapes and ignites, poof. This is what they feared might happen at TMI. At TMI, there was a very tense period when they were monitoring the hydrogen and pressure levels in the containment building and recorded several pressure spikes. Luckily, the containment building held. However, this old type of GE BWR does not have a strong concrete dome containment most other plants have. Instead it has a smaller steel containment structure around the pressure vessel itself. A hydrogen explosion could have blown the whole thing sky high.

[Seggybop]

Better version of the explosion video. Still no video of the aftermath past 1 minute

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4uogOEUrU

looks like only the superstructure is left

large before/after

[ThomasP]

I was just coming here to ask if these reactors had the big concrete containment domes, since it didn't look like it from the pics. So there's a good chance that this thing really did pull a worst-case Chernobyl-style blow-up?

[CaptainChewbacca]

I was just coming here to ask if these reactors had the big concrete containment domes, since it didn't look like it from the pics. So there's a good chance that this thing really did pull a worst-case Chernobyl-style blow-up?

Not quite. This reactor is hot but has been shut down. Chernobyl was an explosion in a functioning reactor.

[ThomasP]

I was thinking more core-explosion with no containment dome kind of scenario, but I don't know enough about the details to spell out any difference.

[starslayer]

I'm surprised they didn't move their boats to the sea, there were hours of advance warning.

Tsunami Wrecks Marina in Santa Cruz California
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=397_1299900429

Tsunami Destroys Harbor In Crescent City, CA
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=451_1299894173

A lot of people on the West Coast were asleep when the tsunami warning for California came in; the earthquake happened at around 10 PM Pacific, and the warning didn't come in until 1 AM. Combined with what Chewie said, it's not really surprising at all.

[Sea Skimmer]

Chernobyl was an explosion that actually took place inside the functional reactor core, caused by various stupidity which is not physically possible in a BWR, and thus blowing the reactor core material in the air from the first instant. This explosion was far more likely in gas trapped between the containment structure and the reactor vessel. If the reactor vessel had breached the radiation levels would be tens upon tens of thousands of times normal. However a continuing meltdown could still cause radiation levels to go much higher anyway.

[Thanas]

The German committee for reactor safety has called it "potentially the second most dangerous nuclear accident after chernobyl" and German news media reports that the evacuation was originally only confined to a 3 km radius. Now it has been widened to a 10km radius, but the German news medial also calls the evacuation as having been started too late and somewhat chaotic, with lots of people left behind in the zones (Primarily the elderly or sick, who cannot be moved easily).

Not very comforting.

[Lonestar]

And of course folks are jumping on this as damming nuclear power on the whole. Even the VOA had a yutz on there. Never you mind that the other 50 or so nuclear power plants didn't break open like this.

[Thanas]

Forgot to add: German News also mentioned that a major factor in the explosion was that there was not enough electricity left to open the emergency pressure valves to further vent steam.

The Japanese Army is deploying ABC troops.

UPDATE:
Japanese officials have said that the roof of a reactor has collapsed (apparently the explosion before) and that a nuclear meltdown is no longer impossible.

[Chris OFarrell]

Do you mean NBC troops?

I'm hearing reports coming through right now that it has been identified as a steam explosion in the plant. No information yet on the status of the reactor, but if the cooling system just blew up or has been disabled, this is not at all good.

[Thanas]

Do you mean NBC troops?

Yeah. German ABC = English NBC.

I'm hearing reports coming through right now that it has been identified as a steam explosion in the plant. No information yet on the status of the reactor, but if the cooling system just blew up or has been disabled, this is not at all good.

A meltdown is no longer ruled out according to the newest German news media.


EDIT: And Fukushima 2 is also leaking radiation, future earthquakes are a "strong possibility" for the next weeks.

[Lonestar]

If it's a BWR it should be physically impossible for it to meltdown completely/blow up.

[cosmicalstorm]

Here is a compilation clip, pretty amazing. The first few seconds show literally an entire town wiped out by the waves.
http://www.vgtv.no/#id=38261

[Thanas]

According to the same German news, the USS Ronald Reagan and her group have been ordered to Japan to help.

[Lonestar]

Rather more than that:


USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76)
USS Chancellorsville (CG 62)
USS Preble (DDG 88)
USS Essex (LHD 2)
USS Germantown (LSD 42)
USS Tortuga (LSD 46)
USS Harpers Ferry (LSD 49)
USS Blue Ridge (LCC 19).

In fact, given the number of Amphibs involved, I suspect the primary reason the surface escorts were sent was to help act as air-traffic control. No word yet as to what vessels homeported in Japan(besides the Blue Ridge) are at sea. I know of at least one that got underway within 12 hours, but that's because a Navy buddy is on it.

[Broomstick]

Sweet Jesus.

As a person living in the Asia-Pacific I must ask, again, if I should be worried and if I should do anything if this nuclear crisis somehow manages to reach me?

I don't claim to be an expert, but my understanding is that the way the prevailing winds are you shouldn't be in any danger down in the Phillipines. The prevailing winds will tend to push any radiation east, over the Pacific as already noted, and towards North America. It's the land/islands down wind that will be at risk. I'm sure there will be published maps and diagrams soon on the news sites showing the projected path of any released radiation.

That said - this is a terrible development. Japan just can't catch a break these past two days.

[Broomstick]

The German committee for reactor safety has called it "potentially the second most dangerous nuclear accident after chernobyl" and German news media reports that the evacuation was originally only confined to a 3 km radius. Now it has been widened to a 10km radius, but the German news medial also calls the evacuation as having been started too late and somewhat chaotic, with lots of people left behind in the zones (Primarily the elderly or sick, who cannot be moved easily).

That always seems to be the case doesn't it? The evacuations are kept small at first, to "avoid panic", then the shit hits the fan, chaos ensues, and it turns out many have been left in harm's way.

Although, to be fair, over the past few days Japan's transportation infrastructure has been pretty messed up. When the trains and planes are running and the roads are heavily damaged and there is debris everywhere it does complicate evacuations. So I wonder just how feasible moving more people out of the area earlier would have been. Also wonder if a substantial number of people moved out on their own before the explosion or not.

[Todeswind]

If anyone gets a map of the direction in which the fallout is blowing please post it!!!!

[Thanas]

Although, to be fair, over the past few days Japan's transportation infrastructure has been pretty messed up. When the trains and planes are running and the roads are heavily damaged and there is debris everywhere it does complicate evacuations. So I wonder just how feasible moving more people out of the area earlier would have been. Also wonder if a substantial number of people moved out on their own before the explosion or not.

Yeah, but it the Japanese standards for reactor safety are anywhere as paranoid as the German ones are, I'd be very much surprised if there weren't detailed evacuation plans drawn up in advance of the plant being built and these things regularly updated and tested.

[His Divine Shadow]

The German committee for reactor safety has called it "potentially the second most dangerous nuclear accident after chernobyl" and German news media reports that the evacuation was originally only confined to a 3 km radius. Now it has been widened to a 10km radius, but the German news medial also calls the evacuation as having been started too late and somewhat chaotic, with lots of people left behind in the zones (Primarily the elderly or sick, who cannot be moved easily).

Not very comforting.

According to what I read on another fourm where they're collating loads of different newsources, the german media is extremely alarmist and ant-nuke, some even outright lying about the situation.

Quoting one guy, after the japanese officials gave the annoucement that the reactor is not going to blow up or anything:

German media says that japanese officials have confirmed the reactor is melting and everyone is panicking over here and rallying for anti-nuclear-power-demonstrations. Now you tell me radioation is going down, also I can't find a non-german source for that.

I also noticed earlier on that the finnish media had lots of experts proclaiming the worst, unfounded assumptions and general talking out of its own ass alarmism going on that wasn't found in other countries media.

[Thanas]

Update:

Japan's Nuclear Energy Agency has now confirmed that a meltdown has indeed occurred. Evacuation radius has just now been increased from 10 to 20 km.

Note that the info is conflicting though - the Government has so far denied a meltdown. Also, there are conflicting reports on whether Casium is leaking only from Fukushima 1 or from Fukushima 2 as well.

According to what I read on another fourm where they're collating loads of different newsources, the german media is extremely alarmist and ant-nuke, some even outright lying about the situation.

If they are, their source NHK world is lying, which is the Japanese television.

[His Divine Shadow]

Yeah well there's been no meltdown, and the sources I've read saying that have been translations of amongst other things, NHK. There was also a press-conference a few hours ago in which they said there had been no meltdown, reactor structure intact, gonna use ocean water to cool the reactor down and so forth.

Swedish media also line up pretty well with what I've been saying:
http://www.svd.se/nyheter/utrikes/svd-r ... 001491.svd

[JME2]

Kyodo News : The death toll from Friday's catastrophic earthquake in Japan reached 217 Saturday in nine prefectures, including Tokyo, with the toll likely to rise to well over 1,000 as some areas suffered devastating damage, according to the National Police Agency and the Defense Ministry.

Shit. The friend I still haven't been able to contact is in Tokyo. I really hope she's alright.

My friend's alright; got confirmation last night.

But I'm still stunned at the level of devastation.

[J]

This explosion was far more likely in gas trapped between the containment structure and the reactor vessel. If the reactor vessel had breached the radiation levels would be tens upon tens of thousands of times normal. However a continuing meltdown could still cause radiation levels to go much higher anyway.

The official word as far as I can tell is the steam & gas which was vented into the outer building exploded and blew it to shreds, but that the reactor vessel and main containment structures remain intact. Apparently they're going to or already are pumping seawater into the vessel to cool the fuel rods.