Death Penalty Abolished in US State of Illinois

[Gil Hamilton]

Wait, why would a higher dose be cleared of the system quicker? That doesn't seem right to me. I know that sodium thiopental is an ultra-fast sedative, but they use a large amount of it and executions don't take that long.

I guess my problem is that how do they know that the sodium thiopental has worn off here? Part of the argument is that they can't show they're in pain because of the pancuronium, but if they don't show that pain, how does one know that the event is happening? See my point? You don't get survivors from the process to say "...and then I woke up again and I was in incredible pain, but I couldn't move at all". That's what makes this smack of an urban legend to me, particularly since the executions and the death penalty attract tons of conspiracy theories anyway.

[Akhlut]

I'm opposed to the death penalty in pretty much all cases, due to the potential for error; as other people have noted, if you realize you made a fuck up with a guy who is imprisoned, you can at least let him out and give him monetary compensation to make up for his pain and suffering, but you can't bring back someone you executed.

However, if you're going to execute someone, I don't see why hooking up a respirator to a canister of nitrogen isn't a preferred method. Nitrogen gas costs, at most, about US$3 per 100 cubic feet/2.83 cubic meters. For a few grand, you can have more N2 than could kill all the condemned people you'd need, and when you executed them, they wouldn't feel a thing.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Wait, why would a higher dose be cleared of the system quicker? That doesn't seem right to me. I know that sodium thiopental is an ultra-fast sedative, but they use a large amount of it and executions don't take that long.

I guess my problem is that how do they know that the sodium thiopental has worn off here? Part of the argument is that they can't show they're in pain because of the pancuronium, but if they don't show that pain, how does one know that the event is happening? See my point? You don't get survivors from the process to say "...and then I woke up again and I was in incredible pain, but I couldn't move at all". That's what makes this smack of an urban legend to me, particularly since the executions and the death penalty attract tons of conspiracy theories anyway.

I don't understand it, that's just what this pharmacology lecturer bloke said.

[Broomstick]

Wait, why would a higher dose be cleared of the system quicker? That doesn't seem right to me. I know that sodium thiopental is an ultra-fast sedative, but they use a large amount of it and executions don't take that long.

I guess my problem is that how do they know that the sodium thiopental has worn off here? Part of the argument is that they can't show they're in pain because of the pancuronium, but if they don't show that pain, how does one know that the event is happening? See my point? You don't get survivors from the process to say "...and then I woke up again and I was in incredible pain, but I couldn't move at all". That's what makes this smack of an urban legend to me, particularly since the executions and the death penalty attract tons of conspiracy theories anyway.

If the person's pulse and blood pressure are being monitored elevated levels of both can be indicative of pain. So, if someone is sedated, injected with other drugs, their pulse slows and BP goes down, then suddenly spikes back up it is not unreasonable to assume they've regained consciousness and pain perception.

[Gil Hamilton]

First of all, does that actually happen during lethal injections? Part of the point of the pancuronium bromide is that it is an extreme muscle relaxant, which includes their heart. In the European version of this, they omit the the potassium compound because the sodium pentathol is enough to induce a coma and the pancuronium is enough to stop a person's heart on it's own if you give a sufficient dose. A rapid increase in blood pressure either means that the blood vessels are severely constricting or the heart is working over time... which I'd be extremely skeptical of if they are up to their balls in pancuronium. That's the point, the whole argument has the body completely paralyzed by Superman-grade muscle relaxant.

Secondly, if that does happen, what is the evidence that those physiological changes are due to the prisoner being in extreme pain? The person dies at the end of this process, he's never interviewed to find out what happened after the drugs wear off.

This is for my own edification, I'm not being confrontational. I'd like to know more about the process as to whether it is really anymore more inhumane than any other way of killing someone. I mean, the Dutch seem to think it's a good enough way to euthansize people who AREN'T criminals and it's also what Kevorkian did for his physician-assisted mercy suicide thing (which I believe included the potassium compound).