Tis usually why I avoid this particular part of the board.The Grim Squeaker wrote: So is ranting about the Right, how America sux cause of bible thumpers, that the world will disintegrate due to peak [Z], and arguing about cops or the death penalty.
Doesn't stop people arguing about it, or jumping towards it even when it's tangential.
Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
There was a Palestinian Family down the street from my Parents house(in Northern Virginia) who were literally setting off firecrackers in celebration on the morning of 9/11. My sympathy meter for the Palestinians as a group is extremely low. Shep also pointed out when the Palestinians have attacked US Citizens who were there to literally help uplift some Palestinians.Aaron wrote: Right. And you expect people to care about that? Israel still gets protected and they still get billions in aid for things that go boom. 3.3 billion dollars over 17 years, fair enough but that does nothing to address the imbalance. I can't think of a good analogy but giving some money to people you assist in oppressing doesn't seem like a good way to make friends to me.
Edit: IvP has always been a hot button here dude, pissing and moaning is par for the course.
By the By, this does NOT mean I support the idea of giving free cash to Israel year in and year out. Israel is not our friend. Israel is not even our ally. At best they are the "least worst option" in the area, but even then Turkey probably has them beat(Turkey at least being our ally).
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
As far as I'm concerned there is a difference between people who live in the country celebrating (thats kinda fucked) and a group of largely uneducated, poor people celebrating.
And yeah, I saw that bit about the convoy attack. I deliberately didn't address that because it is pretty fucking stupid.
And yeah, I saw that bit about the convoy attack. I deliberately didn't address that because it is pretty fucking stupid.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
Here Schatts shows his complete ignorance of Israeli politics.General Schatten wrote:Oh it has nothing to do with what nation they're born in, you moronic piece of shit, but what kind of people they continue to vote for and the initiatives they know those politicians advocate.
I can however offer you a pretty crude thumbnail of Israeli Politics from 1992-2011:
Labor was coming off a pretty strong showing in the 1992 elections with 44 seats plus other allied parties; and they used that to basically force through Land For Peace/Oslo -- the entire thing passed very narrowly by only a few votes in the Knesset.
You can then chart Labor's fortunes in the Knesset against the Suicide bombings of the 90s and the Second Intifada of the 2000s.
Matters weren't helped by Labor deciding to make the '96 elections a referendum on the Peace Process -- they effectively nailed their standard to that mast, setting up their downfall in the 2003 elections.
Even Ariel Sharon creating his own "third way" party called Kadima and splitting the center-right vote from 2006 onwards wasn't enough to save Labor from the irrevelancy it faces today, along with a lot of the dovish left.
To help you understand it more in context -- during 1993-1999; there were 18 suicide attacks; which caused a lot of political problems for Rabin, Peres and Barak.
This was easily eclipsed by 2001-2004, where there were 88 suicide attacks. With that in mind, it's no wonder that the Israeli public decided from 2003 onwards that the security route was much more preferable than the peace route.
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"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
Here Shep shows he's a moronic fuck with no reading comprehension.MKSheppard wrote:Here Schatts shows his complete ignorance of Israeli politics.
And all of that has fuck all relevancy to my criticism of Israel and Israeli citizens, but then I never expect you to listen. I honestly could not give a flying fuck what years the 'left' in Israel were in power, they did and have not ever made any serious moves to force those squatters to leave the land that they stole.-snip-
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
Let's go back to the videotape:General Schatten wrote:Here Shep shows he's a moronic fuck with no reading comprehension.
Oh it has nothing to do with what nation they're born in, you moronic piece of shit, but what kind of people they continue to vote for and the initiatives they know those politicians advocate.
Why are the Israelis voting in center-right parties the last ten years? Could it have something to do with the fact that the center-left parties literally staked their credibility on the peace process, discrediting themselves when the peace process imploded into an orgy of violence?
Nah. It's because the Israelis are cartoonish villians who twirl their moustaches.
During the 1990s, quite a bit of land was transferred to full Palestinian control; and this process continued, even when the Israeli right was briefly in power during that period (Netanyahu) with the Hebron Protocol.I honestly could not give a flying fuck what years the 'left' in Israel were in power, they did and have not ever made any serious moves to force those squatters to leave the land that they stole.
What stalled the turnover of authority at it's present level was the perception on the Israeli side that the Palestinians were not following through on their part of the transfer agreements.
The agreements were essentially that Israel would turn over parts of the West Bank to full Palestinian civil and political control and in exchange, the Palestinians would rein in the militant groups.
A quid pro pro, upon which the next round of quid pro pros would rest upon.
What destroyed that was Fatah's military wing -- the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades.
It's kind of hard to work up enthuasism for more phased turn-overs when the Palestinian Authority's SA mann are attacking your civilians with suicide bombings and other attacks.
What's truly ironic is that it was the Israeli right that did the first large scale expulsion of settlers since the 1970s in 2005; when Sharon had all of the settlements in the Gaza strip removed, along with four in the West Bank unilaterally.
By the way, the Israelis do crack down on settlers, contrary to what you might believe.
Xinhua; the official press agency of the People's Republic of China, truly a reliable source - 1 MARCH 2011
On Monday, Israeli police evicted settlers from an outpost built without government permission on privately-owned Palestinian land. Such evacuations are not uncommon, but during the event on Monday security forces used a significant amount of forces and crowd control measures, leading observers to believe that Israel will now crack down hard on illegal outposts.
By the way, politics is the art of what is feasible. Destroying a city of 55,000 (Gush Etzion) is not feasible.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
Not being in a settlement in Palestinian territory ?Omeganian wrote:I'll be most grateful if you'll show me a place where an Israeli can be out of the terrorists' reach.Sarevok wrote:Both sides suck.
Palestinians for lashing out like animals.
Israelis for putting their people in harms away.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
You mean the city of Sderot -- 20,000+ strong, and within Israel's pre-1967 borders?Sarevok wrote:Not being in a settlement in Palestinian territory ?
You mean the same place that over a period of eight months had 771 rockets and 857 mortar bombs fall on it from the Gaza strip?
What's that? It's about 1-2 kilometers from the 1967 borders? OK.
How about Ofakim, roughly 20 klicks from the 1967 boarders. They got rocketed quite a bit before Cast Lead; though not on the same level as Sderot, due to distance protecting them via dispersal of poorly made rockets.
You mean like Tel Aviv? I'm sure the people on the Dizengoff Street bus were comforted by the fact they weren't settlers as Muatab Mukadi blew it up in 1994.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
How about China for putting their people in harms way in Tel Aviv?Sarevok wrote:Both sides suck.
Palestinians for lashing out like animals.
Israelis for putting their people in harms away.
Link
Li Bin
33 year-old resident of Tel Aviv-Yafo, injured on 17.07.2002 in Tel Aviv-Yafo, by explosion, and died on 24.07.2002. Additional information: A Chinese citizen. Killed in a suicide bombing at the Neve Sha'anan pedestrian mall.
Xu Hengyong
39 year-old, killed on 17.07.2002 in Tel Aviv-Yafo, by explosion. Additional information: A Chinese citizen. Killed in a suicide bombing at the Neve Sha'anan pedestrian mall.
Li Peizhong
41 year-old, killed on 05.01.2003 in Tel Aviv, by explosion. Additional information: A Chinese citizen. Killed in a suicide bombing.
Guo Iya Aiping
37 year-old, killed on 05.01.2003 in Tel Aviv, by explosion. Additional information: A Chinese citizen. Killed in a suicide bombing.
Zhang Minmin
53 year-old resident of Tel Aviv, killed on 13.01.2003 in Tel Aviv, by explosion. Additional information: A Chinese citizen. Killed in a suicide bombing.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
Well, I live in Ashdod. Closer to the border than TA, but not by that much. Had a woman killed by a rocket not quite a block away from my house two years ago.MKSheppard wrote:You mean the city of Sderot -- 20,000+ strong, and within Israel's pre-1967 borders?Sarevok wrote:Not being in a settlement in Palestinian territory ?
You mean the same place that over a period of eight months had 771 rockets and 857 mortar bombs fall on it from the Gaza strip?
What's that? It's about 1-2 kilometers from the 1967 borders? OK.
How about Ofakim, roughly 20 klicks from the 1967 boarders. They got rocketed quite a bit before Cast Lead; though not on the same level as Sderot, due to distance protecting them via dispersal of poorly made rockets.
You mean like Tel Aviv? I'm sure the people on the Dizengoff Street bus were comforted by the fact they weren't settlers as Muatab Mukadi blew it up in 1994.
A man who wants to get away from terrorists should first practice walking away from the horizon.
Q: How are children made in the TNG era Federation?
A: With power couplings. To explain, you shut down the power to the lights, and then, in the darkness, you have the usual TOS era coupling.
A: With power couplings. To explain, you shut down the power to the lights, and then, in the darkness, you have the usual TOS era coupling.
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
By that, do you mean to suggest that Palestinians as a whole should be condemned for the actions of some individuals? And if so, isn't that just bigotry?Lonestar wrote: There was a Palestinian Family down the street from my Parents house(in Northern Virginia) who were literally setting off firecrackers in celebration on the morning of 9/11. My sympathy meter for the Palestinians as a group is extremely low. Shep also pointed out when the Palestinians have attacked US Citizens who were there to literally help uplift some Palestinians.
Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
Of course not. Only the 90% that give a bad name to everyone else.The Romulan Republic wrote:By that, do you mean to suggest that Palestinians as a whole should be condemned for the actions of some individuals?Lonestar wrote: There was a Palestinian Family down the street from my Parents house(in Northern Virginia) who were literally setting off firecrackers in celebration on the morning of 9/11. My sympathy meter for the Palestinians as a group is extremely low. Shep also pointed out when the Palestinians have attacked US Citizens who were there to literally help uplift some Palestinians.
Q: How are children made in the TNG era Federation?
A: With power couplings. To explain, you shut down the power to the lights, and then, in the darkness, you have the usual TOS era coupling.
A: With power couplings. To explain, you shut down the power to the lights, and then, in the darkness, you have the usual TOS era coupling.
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
Indeed they are.MKSheppard wrote:Nah. It's because the Israelis are cartoonish villians who twirl their moustaches.
Bullshit, you pile of dishonest shit, the Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigades were not founded until 2000, the Israelis signed the agreement in bad faith as evidence by their failure to withdraw their forces from all of the West Bank by July 1st '94 and never did.What destroyed that was Fatah's military wing -- the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades.
It's kinda hard to work up trust when Israel never acted in good faith.It's kind of hard to work up enthuasism for more phased turn-overs when the Palestinian Authority's SA mann are attacking your civilians with suicide bombings and other attacks.
Ohohohoh! They crack down on the settlements they don't recognize, so surely that excuses the thousands of other illegal settlers they do recognize, have recognize, and intend on increasing the number of.By the way, the Israelis do crack down on settlers, contrary to what you might believe.
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
My mother is of Palestinian descent. (Coincidentally, my parents also live in Northern Virginia.) My father was on his way to DC right before the Pentagon was hit, and actually saw the smoke from a distance. All of us think it was a disgusting act of terrorism, including most of my mothers family overseas. So you show me a statistic right fucking now that says 90% of Palestinians or Palestinian Americans (either will do) think 9/11 was a good thing.Omeganian wrote:Of course not. Only the 90% that give a bad name to everyone else.The Romulan Republic wrote:By that, do you mean to suggest that Palestinians as a whole should be condemned for the actions of some individuals?Lonestar wrote: There was a Palestinian Family down the street from my Parents house(in Northern Virginia) who were literally setting off firecrackers in celebration on the morning of 9/11. My sympathy meter for the Palestinians as a group is extremely low. Shep also pointed out when the Palestinians have attacked US Citizens who were there to literally help uplift some Palestinians.
If what Lonestar says is true then that specific family is a group of amoral fuckwits who deserve every bit of scorn they get. This still misses the overall problem causing the symptom.
How educated does anyone really think the Palestinians who attack US Citizens are? Do they even know that the US Citizens they attack are there to help them? Do they even know that so much of their aid comes from the US when they never see results of it? Do they even care when Gaza was until recently being blockaded with bans on things like chocholate, glucose, A4 paper, notebooks, newspapers, industrial salt, non-canned meat (canned items are mostly allowed), irrigation pipe systems, toys, fucking potato chips? The ban was eased to allow some things, including snack food, and though I haven't been able to find a more current list (if someone has one posting it or PMing me with it would be greatly appreciated), I challenge anyone to tell me that banning Potato Chips was conductive to preventing Islamic radicalization. When an entire people is literally displaced and forced into shitty conditions for decades, and any attempts to fight back are returned with collectively punishing said of people over and over and over again, parts will be radicalized. Of course that part will find that firing rockets into civilian areas is acceptable. The Israeli's have been bombing them on and off for decades. Which leads to more retaliation. Oh look, a terrorist scumbag fired a rocket from that rooftop. Blow up that building! 10 civilians lived in that building? They shouldn't have been there supporting terrorists! Their families are firing rockets at Israel now? The rockets are hitting past the 67 boarder? Those terrorist scumbags! How dare they attack civilians! That's not even their land! How dare you give them chocolate!
As of now the Palestinians have zero reason to believe that halting their terrorist activities unilatirally will get them anything, especially when the Israelis have negotiated in such bad faith before. Why should the Palestinians stop attacking them when they won't even halt construction of settlements that are already deemed illegal? It's a self fulfilling prophetic cycle that will keep continuing until Israel stops their bullshit and actually starts negotiating in good faith.
Brains!
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"I would ask if the irony of starting a war to spread democracy while ignoring public opinion polls at home would occur to George W. Bush, but then I check myself and realize that
I'm talking about a trained monkey."-Darth Wong
"All I ever got was "evil liberal commie-nazi". Yes, he called me a communist nazi."-DPDarkPrimus
Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
Given the way that so many Americans enjoy gloating on TV when Palestinians are murdered -often with ordnance from Uncle Sam- I'd say their hostility was justified.MKSheppard wrote:Sarcastic to make a point, and I also simply don't like the Palestinians due to the live feeds I watched in 9/11,The Romulan Republic wrote:Are you being sarcastic to make a point, or are you a bigot as well?
Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
I just went over the text of the Oslo Accords and the Cairo Agreement. Would you point out where either of those documents required Israel to withdraw from the entire West Bank by July 1994? I can't find it anywhere.General Schatten wrote:Bullshit, you pile of dishonest shit, the Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigades were not founded until 2000, the Israelis signed the agreement in bad faith as evidence by their failure to withdraw their forces from all of the West Bank by July 1st '94 and never did.
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
Annex 2 required the Israelis to remove their forces from the entirety of the West Bank, it did not say when but within a year of the agreement they made no moves to follow through and ultimately never did.eyl wrote:I just went over the text of the Oslo Accords and the Cairo Agreement. Would you point out where either of those documents required Israel to withdraw from the entire West Bank by July 1994? I can't find it anywhere.
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
In November 2000, a Birzeit University poll of over 1200 Palestinians found that 73% of them supported suicide attacks on Americans.Davis 51 wrote:My mother is of Palestinian descent. (Coincidentally, my parents also live in Northern Virginia.) My father was on his way to DC right before the Pentagon was hit, and actually saw the smoke from a distance. All of us think it was a disgusting act of terrorism, including most of my mothers family overseas. So you show me a statistic right fucking now that says 90% of Palestinians or Palestinian Americans (either will do) think 9/11 was a good thing.
In the immediate aftermath of the attacks, a similar poll found that roughly half of Palestinians felt that, if the 9/11 hijackers were Islamic, then they should be viewed as representative of Muslims as a whole. Almost 70% did not feel that the US would be justified in attacking the people directly responsible for the 9/11 attacks.
In 2005, a Norwegian poll of Palestinians found that 65% supported Al Qaeda bombing attacks in the US and Europe.
And the other 73% of them?If what Lonestar says is true then that specific family is a group of amoral fuckwits who deserve every bit of scorn they get. This still misses the overall problem causing the symptom.
77% of Palestinian academics included in the Birzeit poll above supported attacks on Americans--actually a higher proportion than the rest of the population in November 2000. But I'm curious as to why you think it matters.How educated does anyone really think the Palestinians who attack US Citizens are?
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
It's a classified list.Davis 51 wrote:I haven't been able to find a more current list (if someone has one posting it or PMing me with it would be greatly appreciated)
Israel has withdrawn its forces from Gaza and dismantled numerous settlements. You are complaining that it's slowed action down since? Well, what did the other side do to convince Israel of their good will and encourage continuing?As of now the Palestinians have zero reason to believe that halting their terrorist activities unilatirally will get them anything, especially when the Israelis have negotiated in such bad faith before. Why should the Palestinians stop attacking them when they won't even halt construction of settlements that are already deemed illegal?
Q: How are children made in the TNG era Federation?
A: With power couplings. To explain, you shut down the power to the lights, and then, in the darkness, you have the usual TOS era coupling.
A: With power couplings. To explain, you shut down the power to the lights, and then, in the darkness, you have the usual TOS era coupling.
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
The illegal settlements and troops are still there.Omeganian wrote:Israel has withdrawn its forces from Gaza and dismantled numerous settlements. You are complaining that it's slowed action down since? Well, what did the other side do to convince Israel of their good will and encourage continuing?
They even offered to cede the settlements in return for being allowed the right to provide for their own security concerns (ridiculous to begin with) with the Palestine Papers and you refused, which they need otherwise they can't stop terrorists attacks if you don't allow them to procure the means to do so.
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
Wait, are you actually saying that there are Israeli settlements and troops in Gaza? Really?
Have a very nice day.
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Have a very nice day.
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Re: Family of 5 slaughtered in settlement
This thread has gone far enough down forbidden paths and is locked due to the moratorium.
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Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
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GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan
The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die