SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread V

[Ryan Thunder]

What concerns me is that there's a natural player tendency to dwell on the great power of their nation's X, Y, and Z, while finding it hard to accept the idea that they might not be best at everything. I think it sits easier with most of us to have technological arms races than mental ones.

I try not to do that. I deliberately imagine my passive defense technologies to be inferior compared to what others can achieve, so I make up for it by making my units insanely mobile where others would just pile armour on to them.

You can mockingly quote "speed is armour" all you want, but for my purposes, mobility and active defense allows me to simply avoid or disrupt your attacks. :v

[Simon_Jester]

Don't look at me; my starships rely heavily on that same principle even if my ground forces don't- being able to sidestep a large fraction of enemy fire at their preferred engagement ranges, generating enough second-by-second uncertainty in their position to limit the effectiveness of unguided weapons and force guided weapons to stay on their toes.

[Tanasinn]

I'm still having trouble settling on a visual aesthetic for the Federal Navy's ships. What I really like are Thirdfain's Nordkaldian ships from STGOD 2k8, or the FPA's ships from Legend of Galactic Heroes. Mostly for the same reason - they're throwbacks without being too painfully anachronistic. Unfortunately, I don't have the paint skills to make my own.

[Simon_Jester]

No one's got a lien on the FPA ships; I'm not using them and neither is KlavoHunter.

But if you want your own... I don't know.

[Tanasinn]

I considered using the FPA ships, but there's problems when it comes down to hull variety and of course armament. I still might go with them anyway if I can't find or create what I want.

[Beowulf]

Is it just me, or is someone planning on having their fleet try to, and I quote, have me "burnt to a cinder" on its "way by" my region of space? The hell?

It's "Ha, ha, only serious". If I thought I could get away with it I'd do it, but I realize I probably won't be able to. Unlike some other xeno-hating nations, mine has yet to actually commit genocide.

Re: Doomy: Mechanical psychic weapons... they're called Blitzschlag fields and they zorch psychic people's brains when the power is cranked up high enough. Aside from that, not much and I don't really want to see proliferation beyond that; the idea of esper abilities being something more or less limited to biological creatures is something I'd like to preserve. If nothing else, to grant a degree of parity between the countries that prefer 'squishy' humans and the ones that cyborgize people extensively.

Tianguo Moshu requires mechanization to create large-scale effects. On the one hand, this allows anyone to become a fairly powerful Esper... on the other hand, they're kinda obvious from the inconveniently giant fusion reactor they're carting around to do so. Higher end moshushi are characterized by higher precision work, rather than necessarily bigger.

EDIT: Beo, the Locrians might very well have sent that broadcast in, say, English, Chinese, Old Bragulan, et cetera, whatever languages were in vogue among radio-capable civilizations before their automated probes spiraled into the sun. Centuries out of date, but potentially comprehensible.

The problem is that you end up with a similar situation of the Locrians not knowing how to decode the language. There's no reference points as to what different words mean. This is made slightly worse by the fact there's only 40 Locrian individuals, which may make for a rather strange language of their own.

[doom3607]

Languages seem to basically stop changing once you have recording technology, some of the mannerisms and figures of speech might change, but the heart of any language will be more-or-less the same. And besides, all else failing, all human nations will have historians who specialize in the 20th century, so I could still talk to them.

You know, the locrians would need the Esper devices to do any stuff. Of course, the size prgram is basically meaningless for the Locrians, what with the planetary hives being the size of, well, planets.

As for the Locrian language, there used to be a lot of little hives- tens of thousand, maybe hundreds of thousands? Then they got radio technologically and started implanting them for more range which got the hives to start amalgamating, and then a big nuclear war wiped out all but twenty hives. The other twenty we have now are the fleet hives, which are disproportionately warrior-heavy and thus are less balanced personalities than planetary hives. On the subject:

WARNING: DECLARATION OF POTENTIAL LOCRIAN CANON. INPUT REQUESTED. *cue klaxons*

Every Locrian has a bit of brainpower, but the Thinkers are the only ones that really contribute to the sentience of the hive. This is established already. But what if each type of breed- warriors, workers, breeders, and thinkers- brought a different way of thinking to the mind? Sorta like the Refuge's Nodes, only each and every bug is a tiny Node, and they all add up to form the hive mind. So more workers make the mind more industrious and, well, worker-ish, more thinkers make it more logcial and scientific, more warriors make it more bloodthirsty and cunning, and more breeders make it more parental. At least, that's what I have so far. Input, please!

[Simon_Jester]

Is it just me, or is someone planning on having their fleet try to, and I quote, have me "burnt to a cinder" on its "way by" my region of space? The hell?

It's "Ha, ha, only serious". If I thought I could get away with it I'd do it, but I realize I probably won't be able to. Unlike some other xeno-hating nations, mine has yet to actually commit genocide.

Of course, if Shroomy thought he could get away with it the Inhumanitarian League would take over the galaxy.

EDIT: Beo, the Locrians might very well have sent that broadcast in, say, English, Chinese, Old Bragulan, et cetera, whatever languages were in vogue among radio-capable civilizations before their automated probes spiraled into the sun. Centuries out of date, but potentially comprehensible.

The problem is that you end up with a similar situation of the Locrians not knowing how to decode the language. There's no reference points as to what different words mean. This is made slightly worse by the fact there's only 40 Locrian individuals, which may make for a rather strange language of their own.

Yes, but in mitigation they have lots and lots of time to work on this problem- I wouldn't be at all surprised if they could manage something resembling a human language albeit a rather shitty version of one.

Universal translators are a justified trope in soft SF, so I figure sure why not. I mean, we assumed the MEH's broadcasts make sense, even though they're from a parallel universe and have nothing to say, so why not cut the Locrians some slack when their backstory well-justifies it?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Mechanism offers a level playing field between different countries that rely on mechanisms. I can write myself having machines to counteract your machines, without having to do anything drastic to the flavor of my nation (the way the Byzantines would be affected if, say, you were saddled with an elected head of state in place of a God-Emperor).

Believe it or not, it doesn't. What offers a level playing field are players playing the game in good faith, and mods actively exercising their powers when need be. Past STGOD games had so many points etc. etc. but still degenerated into a cesspool of arguments over mechanism because they either 1. disliked each other immersely 2. disliked the roll of the dice 3. Indulged in endless military minutae which you yourself hate but hey military minutae is itself is mechanism.

Also, there's a fundamental difference in flavor between "I devise tools to counter your tools" and "I make the targets of your tools into things your tools can't affect." The latter 'undoes' the other player's accomplishments far more than the former.

Then whack any damn player that makes absolute claims and force them to pare it down. Shep's anti-psykery weapons are an example of something that should be pared down.

[Simon_Jester]

Mechanism offers a level playing field between different countries that rely on mechanisms. I can write myself having machines to counteract your machines, without having to do anything drastic to the flavor of my nation (the way the Byzantines would be affected if, say, you were saddled with an elected head of state in place of a God-Emperor).

Believe it or not, it doesn't. What offers a level playing field are players playing the game in good faith, and mods actively exercising their powers when need be. Past STGOD games had so many points etc. etc. but still degenerated into a cesspool of arguments over mechanism because they either 1. disliked each other immersely 2. disliked the roll of the dice 3. Indulged in endless military minutae which you yourself hate but hey military minutae is itself is mechanism.

Machines as plot devices, good. Machines as "well mine should be better at this than yours is at that," bad.

I do not think this is a difficult concept to grasp. When Force Lord comes up with esper counter-counter-measures, or Zor comes up with esper counter-counter-counter-measures, that is plot devices. Good, or at least adequate. If they start bickering over whose machinery can beat up whose, that is senseless dickwaving. Bad. So far, we have seen the former, not the latter.

Play in good faith is good; one aspect of play in good faith is writing one's own nation on terms that permit some semblance of competition for people who don't want to radically restructure their nation to match. In this particular game, technological arms races are easier to keep up with than "my people produce better/better trained espers" for many of the players. So I see no problem with getting into mechanical arms races.

If you want to get into an esper arms race, I honestly don't see why not as long as you don't go completely apeshit; I am not responsible for Steve's opinions.

Whatever.

Also, there's a fundamental difference in flavor between "I devise tools to counter your tools" and "I make the targets of your tools into things your tools can't affect." The latter 'undoes' the other player's accomplishments far more than the former.

Then whack any damn player that makes absolute claims and force them to pare it down. Shep's anti-psykery weapons are an example of something that should be pared down.

It was. You'll note Shroomy came up with some quite interesting counters, and a psychic goddamn crab has been running on the rampage in his capital for God knows how long.

[Master_Baerne]

Quick question: when's it going to be 3401? My next post happens on 2 January.

[Steve]

We're generally in unreal time, so I'd say go ahead and post it.

[Darkevilme]

I'm still having trouble settling on a visual aesthetic for the Federal Navy's ships. What I really like are Thirdfain's Nordkaldian ships from STGOD 2k8, or the FPA's ships from Legend of Galactic Heroes. Mostly for the same reason - they're throwbacks without being too painfully anachronistic. Unfortunately, I don't have the paint skills to make my own.

So a combination of sea going battleship and silver age sci fi space rocket? Shame I can't repaint the Triumph of Masterless Men really.

[Shroom Man 777]

I made a new country for the lulz.

Ford Prefect's Country



Capitol: Testingstan, Ford Prime

Government: Democratic

Head of State/Government: President Garrison Ford

Head of Military: General Montgommery Strak

Territories: Five colonized planets and a number of O'Neill cylinders

Location: Sector O-18

Originating from a Frequesean micro-nation on old Nova Terra, Ford Prefect's Country is a small but prosperous single-system state situated between the United Nations of Earth and Nova Terra and the Holy Empire of Haruhi Suzumiya. The original Fords colonized their worlds during the Diaspora, where they hitched on UN ships hailing from the Duchy of Langley. Due to their location, Ford Prefect's Country has many cultural similarities with the nearby Haruhiists and are likewise known for their animus and mangoes, though they have their fair share of differences as well.

Ford Prefect's Country is defended by the Ford Regional Overall Defense forces, the FROD, noted for its use of giant robots and mechas. The FROD is composed of a Chair Force, a Smarmy and a Mavy (pronounced 'maybe'). Consequently, one of the country's top exports include giant robotics manufactured by Space Technology Research and Advanced Kinetics.

[Shroom Man 777]

Gentlemen.

Shep has offered, and has begun work on, hosting an ad-free wiki. He has started transferring articles, but obviously one mang can only do so much. The advantages of this new wiki is the lack of ads, which frees up more space so our articles and pictures don't have to be compressed. We also don't have to be stuck with the shitty skins wiki is trying to force on us. The disadvantages are, of course, the troubles of having to transfer our articles.

[Simon_Jester]

Shepipedia! It's REAL!

Well, I'll get to it sometime, I guess.

[White Haven]

The temptation to see if a mere nation concept can make the entirety of Shepistan die of apoplexy is...palpable. My old League of Thought might be able to pull that off.

*strokes chin*

I wish I'd known earlier that SDNW4 was an old-school STGOD rather than the archaic land shenanigans that it's been the last three iterations, I would have hopped on board long ago.

[Simon_Jester]

I don't think that they'd fit into this game very well, alas. We've built up enough of a coherent game-vision over the past several months that introducing something that new-and-different would be tricky.

But great concept.

[Shroom Man 777]

Force Lord, the radiation the SIS used on the money was not the kind that would kill people. The radiation they used was the kind Batman used on the mafia's money in The Dark Knight.

EDIT:

But then again, the Sheppos might have overdone the radiation.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Force Lord, the radiation the SIS used on the money was not the kind that would kill people. The radiation they used was the kind Batman used on the mafia's money in The Dark Knight.

Hush. Don't be a spoilsport. I told you I wanted the gold to burn their fingers off. Gives a whole new spin to "Midas touch".

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

I'm already running into multiple issues with Shep's own SDNW4 Wiki. For starters, there's no way to upload multiple image files (which is going to make porting the articles on the SOS Imperial Guard, Navy, and Marine Corps a major pain in the ass), and Template:Infobox military conflict is broken for some reason (and I don't know enough coding to know how to repair it).

[Simon_Jester]

I for one won't be transferring any of my own wiki articles for a while- not that I have any objections, I just don't feel any urgent need to do so.

[doom3607]

Same. Only without the plural bits.

[Karmic Knight]

THIS IS CNN

Massive Legal battle as CNN - Central News Network, CNN - Chammarran News Network, and now the ancient Canissian News Network join in a massive legal battle across most of the known Galaxy.

[Force Lord]

Yeah, three CNN's? One is bad enough.