The alien invasion reasoning thread

[Sarevok]

Eh it's a typical human pride story. A poorly written one at that.

[Swindle1984]

^That sounds like the basis for a pretty awesome story there.

I can post the follow-up he wrote. Mob of transhuman cyborgs and clones (rather than an organized army) descend on the enemy planet for revenge, and find that all is not as it seems. It reads like a totally different story, and he never finished, but it's still interesting.

[mr friendly guy]

Future Threat: A time traveler from their distant future told them we'd exterminate their species in a few centuries. They are trying to conquer us instead of destroying the planet from space because they can't quite bring themselves to commit genocide for something our descendants in a possible future did.

This would be awesome if the sequel actually does show us attacking them and winning in the future, because they attacked us first. Then the final book should explain why the time traveller told them to do it in the first place, and then we find out its a member of a third race who wanted us to remove their galactic rivals for them. Then they attack us and we team up with our beaten foes to kick arse.

[weemadando]

Future Threat: A time traveler from their distant future told them we'd exterminate their species in a few centuries. They are trying to conquer us instead of destroying the planet from space because they can't quite bring themselves to commit genocide for something our descendants in a possible future did.

This would be awesome if the sequel actually does show us attacking them and winning in the future, because they attacked us first. Then the final book should explain why the time traveller told them to do it in the first place, and then we find out its a member of a third race who wanted us to remove their galactic rivals for them. Then they attack us and we team up with our beaten foes to kick arse.

Of course its the man with a gallifreyan av who says that.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Revenge: In an alternate universe from the future, humans have ruthlessly crushed the galaxy beneath their power-fists. Now a ragtag band of fugitives sails the multiverse, destroying every early Earth they encounter.

That's all I got.

[Rossum]

They don't like tall people

The aliens grow to be about half our size. During a large chunk of their evolution they hunted larger animals to survive or learned to gang up on anything bigger than themselves. Thus, every attempt at face-to-face contact between humans and aliens results in them thinking of us as big violent things that might attack us while humans subconciously think of them as children or little goblins or whatever.

Eventually something happens that ticks off the aliens and they start conquering our planet to keep us from spreading to the stars. They might even go so far as to kill off the tallest humans to 'evolve' us to become a shorter and thus more advanced race.

Though the government agency involved with contacting the aliens might try hiring midgets as diplomats to deal with the aliens. Having short humans deal with the aliens seems to ease relations since it doesn't trigger the aliens instinctive fear of big things.

[Tasoth]

Since someone already mentioned the conquering just to make themselves feel superior by lording over another species, that just leaves me with an aside.

Why does everyone feel that sufficiently advanced humans are going to become machines? Conquering genetic disease and the dead ends that have cropped up in our genome would be easier and more likely than become a machine.

[Imperial528]

I could see things like cybernetic implants designed to enhance brain function, or help maintain the immune system, or basically to improve whats there already. But becoming wholly machine does not seem like a very efficient thing to do wide-scale, especially given how efficient it is to simply let the body grow itself over time. Not to mention the extreme uncanny valley phenomena that would have to be faced.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Why does everyone feel that sufficiently advanced humans are going to become machines?

Because a machine body & brain would be more powerful and capable. No matter how much you engineer an organic body, it is going to be stuck with the limits of organic materials. And because if we don't, we'll likely be outcompeted and rendered irrelevant or extinct by our own creations eventually.

[Tasoth]

So how exactly would a mechanical body and brain help you be more capable than we currently are? Why modify and upload a body when we can make tools far more simpler? What happens to the original organic consciousness when you make a copy to put in your machine body? (Don't tell me that won't happen. You're copying chemicals and synaptic layouts into a machine and thus just making a copy.) And why would machines out compete and drive us to extinction? You are applying the laws of nature to entities that are wholly wrought by human hands. Why would survival of the fittest and competition apply to them? Shouldn't we, as humans and potentially mechanical intelligences, be able to work around this?

[Imperial528]

Magitech singularity proponents often pretend the ability to plan against machine rebellion doesn't exist or is somehow not practical.

[wautd]

Aliens need pets. Humans make great pets (well, the puppies anyway. But they grow up...)

[Eternal_Freedom]

All of existence as we know it is in fact just a set of pieces on someone's chessboard, and invading Earth is a player's idea of a strategic move.

Yes, I have been reading StarCrossed of late

[Naly]

Fixer-Upper: The Aliens aren't vastly superior and haven't entirely mastered the process of interstellar colonization...its still a long, arduous, and expensive process that doesn't produce profitable/beneficial results for many cycles. Sure, there's a few habitable worlds in their area of the galaxy, but Earth is a real prize. The infrastructure is already set up, primitive as it is, is just a matter of upgrades and neutralizing the humans who would object. After comparing options the more viable/profitable option is a small military action as opposed to constructing a new colony from the bottom up.

[Lord of the Abyss]

So how exactly would a mechanical body and brain help you be more capable than we currently are?

Excuse me? Something made of better materials and with a fundamentally better design is of course going to be more capable.

Why modify and upload a body when we can make tools far more simpler?

Because you don't have tools all the time. Because tools can only do so much.

What happens to the original organic consciousness when you make a copy to put in your machine body? (Don't tell me that won't happen. You're copying chemicals and synaptic layouts into a machine and thus just making a copy.)

That's something that has been covered in other threads; I hold with the position that you are your memories and therefore that "copy" is you. It isn't like the physical matter of our brain isn't constantly being replaced, or as if we were continuously conscious; the unbroken identity you are looking for doesn't exist.

The organic version would probably be destroyed in the process anyway, a destructive read would be simpler.

And why would machines out compete and drive us to extinction? You are applying the laws of nature to entities that are wholly wrought by human hands. Why would survival of the fittest and competition apply to them? Shouldn't we, as humans and potentially mechanical intelligences, be able to work around this?

"Survival of the fittest" applies to artificial creations as much as it does to anything natural. And we wouldn't be able to work around them for the same reasons slugs don't take over human civilization; we would be too stupid and too limited.

[Imperial528]

Wait, so you're saying we'd be completely lost trying to understand something we designed and built from the ground up? Maybe if it was left to its own devices for a few centuries with it completely cut off from us and given its own manufacturing abilities. But if it was built on hardware and coded with languages humans made and not given the ability to easily change either one? You're seriously saying that a programmer wouldn't be able to understand the code he made? Or a computer engineer wouldn't understand the hardware he designed?
You're giving computers way too much credit here. It's very easy to lock down a system using external controls it can't manipulate, software or otherwise, AI or no.

[Omeganian]

There is only one reason a spacefaring race might need planets. Resorts.

Hmmm, a race fighting us for the beaches and mountains...

[Tasoth]

Excuse me? Something made of better materials and with a fundamentally better design is of course going to be more capable.

So, what is the better design? Is it going to be humanoid (I.E. Synthetic you) or abstract? From fiction I can pull different designs that are fundamentally better for different reasons. Also, what are these better materials and will they lead to new problems with the body? Is it going to significantly heavier and put unforeseen strain on exist architecture? How does it hold up to everyday wear and tear? You state that the new design will be better, stronger, and faster but not what makes it so.

Because you don't have tools all the time. Because tools can only do so much.

We don't need tools all the time. I don't carry my computer with me when I'm away from it, nor a genetic sequencer or electrophoresis setup, but when I need it, it's there and I make sure of it. And tools won't be made superfluous just because we're suddenly machines.

Unless of course we become walking swiss army bots.

That's something that has been covered in other threads; I hold with the position that you are your memories and therefore that "copy" is you. It isn't like the physical matter of our brain isn't constantly being replaced, or as if we were continuously conscious; the unbroken identity you are looking for doesn't exist.

The organic version would probably be destroyed in the process anyway, a destructive read would be simpler.

If your neurons die and regrow constantly, you need to see a neurologist as soon as you can as you will make the lives of those with severe brain damage infinitely better with your contribution to science. Why? Because the neurons you are born with are the neurons you have throughout life. You do not make more, they do not under go mitosis once they've hit the full complement of neurons. Your glial cells die and reproduce, your synaptic architecture changes over time and especially during adolescents and the tail end of your teenage years, but the neurons do not increase. My consciousness is still the same one from when I started forming long term memories and most likely before.

As for the business of the copy being you, that's horse crap. The copy is a copy, you are still the meat. You are not cheating death by the duplication of your mind state because it's only your doppleganger being loosed into the world.

"Survival of the fittest" applies to artificial creations as much as it does to anything natural. And we wouldn't be able to work around them for the same reasons slugs don't take over human civilization; we would be too stupid and too limited.

If natural selection applies to everything, why do we have dogs that must be delivered via C-section? Why are there turkeys too monstrously disproportioned to survive outside of a farm? Why are astigmatisms, manic-depression, schizophrenia and a whole host of other genetic disease still active in the population? Why do those who bear them continue to live when they possess them?

The answer is we do our damnedest to buck natural selection. We apply artificial selection to everything. So why would we not limit robots so they can't become destructive?

Additionally, if machines are smarter and more unlimited than mankind, why would they even compete with us than? It'd be far easier for them to bugger off and let us either destroy ourselves or solve our own problems. They are, after all, undying.

[Formless]

If your neurons die and regrow constantly, you need to see a neurologist as soon as you can as you will make the lives of those with severe brain damage infinitely better with your contribution to science. Why? Because the neurons you are born with are the neurons you have throughout life. You do not make more, they do not under go mitosis once they've hit the full complement of neurons

Um, hate to intrude, but your data is outdated. Growth of new neurons in adulthood is slow compared to other cell types (hence why it got overlooked until recently), but your brain is not fixed in childhood like scientists once thought. So... yeah, might want to re-evaluate your position just a tiny bit. You are, in fact, the Ship of Theseus.

[hermitbob]

Excuse me? Something made of better materials and with a fundamentally better design is of course going to be more capable.

So, what is the better design? Is it going to be humanoid (I.E. Synthetic you) or abstract? From fiction I can pull different designs that are fundamentally better for different reasons. Also, what are these better materials and will they lead to new problems with the body? Is it going to significantly heavier and put unforeseen strain on exist architecture? How does it hold up to everyday wear and tear? You state that the new design will be better, stronger, and faster but not what makes it so.

Because you don't have tools all the time. Because tools can only do so much.

We don't need tools all the time. I don't carry my computer with me when I'm away from it, nor a genetic sequencer or electrophoresis setup, but when I need it, it's there and I make sure of it. And tools won't be made superfluous just because we're suddenly machines.

Unless of course we become walking swiss army bots.

That's something that has been covered in other threads; I hold with the position that you are your memories and therefore that "copy" is you. It isn't like the physical matter of our brain isn't constantly being replaced, or as if we were continuously conscious; the unbroken identity you are looking for doesn't exist.

The organic version would probably be destroyed in the process anyway, a destructive read would be simpler.

If your neurons die and regrow constantly, you need to see a neurologist as soon as you can as you will make the lives of those with severe brain damage infinitely better with your contribution to science. Why? Because the neurons you are born with are the neurons you have throughout life. You do not make more, they do not under go mitosis once they've hit the full complement of neurons. Your glial cells die and reproduce, your synaptic architecture changes over time and especially during adolescents and the tail end of your teenage years, but the neurons do not increase. My consciousness is still the same one from when I started forming long term memories and most likely before.

As for the business of the copy being you, that's horse crap. The copy is a copy, you are still the meat. You are not cheating death by the duplication of your mind state because it's only your doppleganger being loosed into the world.

"Survival of the fittest" applies to artificial creations as much as it does to anything natural. And we wouldn't be able to work around them for the same reasons slugs don't take over human civilization; we would be too stupid and too limited.

If natural selection applies to everything, why do we have dogs that must be delivered via C-section? Why are there turkeys too monstrously disproportioned to survive outside of a farm? Why are astigmatisms, manic-depression, schizophrenia and a whole host of other genetic disease still active in the population? Why do those who bear them continue to live when they possess them?

The answer is we do our damnedest to buck natural selection. We apply artificial selection to everything. So why would we not limit robots so they can't become destructive?

Additionally, if machines are smarter and more unlimited than mankind, why would they even compete with us than? It'd be far easier for them to bugger off and let us either destroy ourselves or solve our own problems. They are, after all, undying.

Case in point Therians from AT-43,

Also on topic, case in point Therians from AT-43. We are here to weaken the planet to the point where the race that seeded us can tear apart the solar system to make a BIG, HUGE, GIGANORMAS dyson sphere/habitat/spaceship.

[Zixinus]

Can we NOT turn this into another Singularity discussion please?

[someone_else]

EDIT: Damn. Already posted. Feel free to delete this post.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Time War Additional:

In the far future a war is raging. Agents and timeships fighting across countless millenia. Earth just gets caught in the crossfire.

Even mroe mind-fuckingly, we may have been wiped out and restored time after time. Maybe that's what "deja vu" is

[Raxmei]

A great artist is doing research for a series on primitive warfare and he needs to know what fought over urban ruins of pre-spaceflight civilizations look like.

[andrewgpaul]

Stolen from a thread on 4chan, of all places, where people got tired of "aliens are technologically/physically/socially superior to humans" and want a thread where humans are better than aliens, or at least more dangerous.

It reminds me of the plot of The Killing Star, with added tragic irony.