Shogun 2 : Total War

[open_sketchbook]

... because saying it "Total War : Shogun 2" sounds really wierd.

The game unlocks for me in just a few minutes, and the excitement just keeps growing. As a huge fan of the Total War games, I've watched this one with interest for a while, and I gotta say I'm quite excited for the online multiplayer portion, though I imagine the campaign will also be fun.

The PC Gamer review indicates that the new AI is fairly brutal, which gives me hope; the AI has always been pushovers, and I sort of hope for a more challenging campaign this time around.

Anyone else getting it/have it?

[Sinewmire]

Gonna work out if my pc will support it, but yes, I will be getting it. I haven't tried anything since TW:M2, so I'm looking forward to a significant jump in quality!

[CaptHawkeye]

I'm sure the AI will be challenging for about as long as it takes to figure out their dumb/simplistic routines.

As for the game fuck CA. They screwed me and others on Medieval 2 and Empire. I'm not shelling out hard earned cash for beta-release bullshit anymore.

[Vympel]

Its on my list, but low priority. Since finishing Fallout New Vegas twice, then Dead Money, then Alpha Protocol, I've gone back to Saints Row 2 (PS3) and hope to finish that or most of it before my copy of DA2 arrives. Once DA2 arrives it goes to the top of the list, then back to the PS3 for a time.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

This will be the first Total War I don't plan on getting.

I don't have much interest in the Shogun setting, but it's what they did with Empire/Napoleon that really has me on the sidelines for this one. Napoleon is so much cleaner, smoother, and generally what Empire should have been... including features that were supposed to be in Empire but were never fully implemented. Playing either game just reminds me that they should be one and the same; two half-games, each with a bit extra to justify their separation.

I shall wait for Rome 2, I think.

[Dartzap]

For some odd reason there was no preload for this 17 hours to download! Eep!

[Thanas]

I'm sure the AI will be challenging for about as long as it takes to figure out their dumb/simplistic routines.

As for the game fuck CA. They screwed me and others on Medieval 2 and Empire. I'm not shelling out hard earned cash for beta-release bullshit anymore.

This.

[Skgoa]

The demo is to small in content to dispell my fears of this being another history-torturing bugfest. So I guess I am NOT GOING TO BE A FUCKING IDIOT.

[mithie]

So, first impressions and thoughts - figured I may as well come out of lurking status.

For some odd reason there was no preload for this 17 hours to download! Eep

Hum. Pretty sure there was. I had mine pre-loaded.

Anyhow, I labbed a couple of skirmishes against the AI, and the AI failed to impress me.

Firstly, I didn't notice any difference in AI behavior on difficulty change - which was disappointing.
Secondly, the AI, at least this time around, seems to actually care about force cohesion, which is a point in its favor.

So. Anyway. Battle 1.

I outnumber the AI 2 to 1.

Action: The AI deployed its forces in a misguided attempt to match my line. I pushed hard on both of its overextended flanks and crushed it. At no point during this entire engagement did the AI try to dynamically re-position its cavalry reserves. They sat there and ate yumi fire, and all died as a result.

Conclusion: I thought the AI was supposed to deploy based on force parity, and play defensively if out-numbered? Didn't happen here.

Battle 2: The Ai and I were about even in composition and numbers.

Action: The AI tried to match my line again. I push up my right flank. The AI shifts arrow fire to engage my extended army. Good! I push my calvary to the tip of his right flank. The AI does nothing. I pin down his heavy infantry with my yari ashigaru and break my cavalry through his flank. He does nothing. I steamroll his archers with said cavalry. Still no reaction. I advance the rest of my line and win decisively.

Conclusion: I don't understand. The AI seems pretty decent at deploying his army, but once the battle actually starts, it doesn't actually do anything.

Battle 3: The AI outnumbers me 2 to 1.

Action: The AI deploys his forces in an extremely long single line with cavalry at the tips of both flanks. I deploy my forces in a triple line; yari ashigaru on both echelons, shock troops at the tip, yumi ashigaru in the rear, and cavalry on the right wing. I push his center hard. He pushes both calvary wings forward, completely unsupported, and tries to wheel to my rear. I don't know what they were doing; they ran down the length of the map, I deploy my yari, he runs away, and once again proceeds to gobble arrows like popcorn. I won. Again. You know those two hugely extended flanks he had? Those didn't move at all. They just sat there and watched me curb-stomp their general into the ground.

Conclusion: Not impressed. On the other hand, it just wouldn't be a total war game without indecisive cavalry

[Thanas]

Welcome to the board, and that confirms my fears and what every review said so far. AI is still extremely shoddy.

[mithie]

Thanks.

On the other hand, the campaign map AI seems to be somewhat improved. There's quite a wealth of diplomatic options now. The AI also seems to be a bit more willing to take the initiative when it comes to negotiations.

As far as faithfulness to history goes -

The vaunted "RPG-like" progression system is interesting from a gameplay perspective, but can feel a bit out of place in a game supposedly based on history.

There are quite a few inconsistencies and factual mistakes, some of which can be excused due to gameplay, but others, not so much; so pretty much on par with other TW games.

Still - all in all - it's a fairly well polished and well presented product, but whether or not the quality in presentation can make up for the lack of a competent AI is somewhat debatable.

[Vehrec]

You know, it's kinda depressing that the AI can't really do anything meaningful in terms of challenge after a decade of 'advancing' the formula. Maybe CA just doesn't understand.

[Slacker]

I'm sure the AI will be challenging for about as long as it takes to figure out their dumb/simplistic routines.

As for the game fuck CA. They screwed me and others on Medieval 2 and Empire. I'm not shelling out hard earned cash for beta-release bullshit anymore.

Know we're not supposed to dogpile, but jesus, this. I still haven't finished a game of Empire, and I was profoundly looking forward to the naval combat. When it goes on oh-shit steam sale a year from now and the game's been patched to respectability, maybe we'll see.

[mithie]

Know we're not supposed to dogpile, but jesus, this. I still haven't finished a game of Empire, and I was profoundly looking forward to the naval combat. When it goes on oh-shit steam sale a year from now and the game's been patched to respectability, maybe we'll see.

I'm not going to defend E:TW, because let's face it: when it was first released, it was a pile of shit.

BUT, with that said ...

The modding community has done a fair bit of hard work (hard, because the E:TW is far less moddable than the previous games) to do a lot of what CA should have done. So if you DO still have the game lying around, and you do enjoy the time period, you may want to give it a second try - with mods, of course.

[weemadando]

I think it was Rock Paper Shotgun who had a report on the AI and how it never reacted to archer fire in any of their battles.

YAY FOR CA! YOU MAKE GREAT GAMES! LET ME PAY YOU FULL PRICE!

[Thanas]

I think it was Rock Paper Shotgun who had a report on the AI and how it never reacted to archer fire in any of their battles.

Jesus Christ, again? The same thing happened with Medieval 2, where entire armies would just take it until they were all dead. Did they just copy the AI? Or did they skimp out on betatesting again? This stuff should have been fixed in beta.

Ever since Sega bought them, they have turned to crap.

[Thanas]

BUT, with that said ...

The modding community has done a fair bit of hard work (hard, because the E:TW is far less moddable than the previous games) to do a lot of what CA should have done. So if you DO still have the game lying around, and you do enjoy the time period, you may want to give it a second try - with mods, of course.

I would caution against using mods. They can easily crash your PC with empire.

[Minischoles]

I think it was Rock Paper Shotgun who had a report on the AI and how it never reacted to archer fire in any of their battles.

Jesus Christ, again? The same thing happened with Medieval 2, where entire armies would just take it until they were all dead. Did they just copy the AI? Or did they skimp out on betatesting again? This stuff should have been fixed in beta.

Ever since Sega bought them, they have turned to crap.

I'm guessing it's another Empire situation: the first version of the game is essentially a giant beta they're making people pay for the privilege of sorting out their shitty buggy games, then sell them a full price game that sorts out everything that was wrong.
After the debacle of Empire and Napoleon, there is absolutely no way i'm buying this in the first 3-6 months, it's just not worth the hassle.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I would caution against using mods. They can easily crash your PC with empire.

DarthMod has been quite stable.

[The Yosemite Bear]

So who would like it if they made an expansion pack for TEMUNJIN

[Slacker]

Know we're not supposed to dogpile, but jesus, this. I still haven't finished a game of Empire, and I was profoundly looking forward to the naval combat. When it goes on oh-shit steam sale a year from now and the game's been patched to respectability, maybe we'll see.

I'm not going to defend E:TW, because let's face it: when it was first released, it was a pile of shit.

BUT, with that said ...

The modding community has done a fair bit of hard work (hard, because the E:TW is far less moddable than the previous games) to do a lot of what CA should have done. So if you DO still have the game lying around, and you do enjoy the time period, you may want to give it a second try - with mods, of course.

I have it on Steam, so it's not exactly difficult to reinstall it and set things back up again if I'm so inclined. I've not tried running a mod on a steam game before, but I can't imagine it's too difficult. Not to derail, but if you don't mind dropping a couple of quick recommendations, that would be fantastic, as I did have high hopes for the game when it was released and I need a strategy game to fill the void until Civ5 gets good.

[CaptHawkeye]

I don't give a shit what the mod community can do for the game. They won't be doing it anytime soon.

I like how people who have actually played the game noticed that A. It's broken and B. The AI still sucks. While the only people saying "zomg its awesome" are people who read a review somewhere.

[open_sketchbook]

I've been playing it all day, and I like it...

[xthetenth]

Been playing it with a friend, and the coop mode is pretty damn cool, since the owner of units can hand some off to an observing friend at his discretion. So at least they got that bit absolutely right. And once there's that, we can make our fun by trying to see how badly we can game the system and achieve real ultimate power. Fun, mostly competent but not strictly speaking good.

[Vympel]

Empire was a piece of shit when released, but I'd say its been as patched as its going to get - I've played it fully patched, and whilst its flawed like any vanilla TW game (especially in terms of the horrendous siege battles and how your troops don't deploy along the walls properly), I enjoyed myself a lot and it was a good long game. It's very very cheap to get now, so if you feel like it ...

But as for Shogun, I've said many times that I really don't care about the AI flaws in the TW series. I'm a builder - I like to make awesome rich powerful empires with huge armies. Of course I play the tactical battles, and I enjoy crushing the enemy, even if its not too hard.