The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
Moderator: NecronLord
- Panzersharkcat
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: 2011-02-28 05:36am
The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
First of all, I admit that I have limited exposure to Star Trek, minus a few episodes of Voyager years ago that I have completely forgotten (and from the crap spoken about Voyager that I've heard, I guess I should be glad). The scenario is the TNG-era Federation discovering a wormhole (yes, I'm not very creative) or something of the sort that directs them to the Fallout-era Earth circa 2277, with a victorious Enclave, led by Colonel Autumn, over the Brotherhood of Steel due to defection by the Lone Wanderer. I say Autumn as leader since he was opposed to poisoning the water with FEV. This is obviously not canon (stupid plot not letting me join the villains) but I want to keep it a strict Enclave vs Federation fight and don't want the BoS in the way. This also assumes Liberty Prime, the forty-foot-tall nuclear bomb tossing robot, has been destroyed.
I'm going to run through ground combat tech in the same manner as the ground combat tech page in the main SD.net site. I'm going to use New Vegas weapon statistics when possible since it's more recent and I prefer the armor system used in that game. This does, however, introduce problems since Fallout 3 Enclave armor is not in the game unless added with console commands in PC. The files are in the GECK and the stats for regular Enclave power armor are considerably tougher than the Remnants power armor, which is supposed to be roughly the same as Fallout 3 Enclave power armor. To resolve this, I'm going to assume the stats for Remnants power armor to be same as Enclave power armor, if nobody minds.
Handguns
N99 10mm pistol. 12 round magazine. The only member of the Enclave I've seen use one is Colonel Autumn, and he only used it for a short time in the game before replacing it with a laser pistol. Hits roughly as hard (22 damage) as a 5.56 rifle round (24 damage from New Vegas' Marksman Carbine).
AEP7 laser pistol. 30 round ammo capacity. Hits roughly half as hard (12 damage) as the 10mm pistol, though on occasion will cause the target to disintegrate into a pile of ash without the steam from vaporizing all that water damaging people nearby. Seen mostly in use by Enclave scientists. Colonel Autumn has modified one at the battle at the Jefferson Memorial. It bugs me that there's no trigger guard and there are no sights to aim the damn thing with, even in New Vegas.
Plasma pistol. 8 round capacity (16, but it eats up 2 energy cell things for every shot) for around 33 damage, roughly between 5.56 and .308 in damage done. It occasionally will turn the target into a puddle of goo. As with the laser pistol, I have no idea how that would happen without the steam damaging nearby people. Used mostly by Enclave scientists and officers.
Sub-machine Guns and Carbines
There is a 10mm sub-machine gun in the game but I have never observed it in use by Enclave personnel, so I will disregard it. There are no energy weapons used by the Enclave with full-auto capacity outside of the Gatling laser, hence my decision to classify the following as carbines and not assault rifles. I'm not including the Tri-beam laser rifle since I've never seen one used by the Enclave, only super mutant overlords. Why they get those from, I have no idea.
AER9 laser rifle. 24 round ammo capacity and 22 damage, roughly 5.56 in damage output. Like the laser pistol, it can disintegrate targets on occasion. This thing actually has a trigger guard but no real way of aiming it.
Plasma rifle. 12 round ammo capacity and 47 damage, slightly more than that of a .308 sniper rifle. The weapon does have sights, as of New Vegas, but has no trigger guard. The projectile is also subsonic and can be dodged relatively easily. Like with the plasma pistol, it melts targets into goo on occasion.
Assault Rifles
Never observed in use by Enclave personnel.
Sniper Rifles
Never observed in use by Enclave personnel, not even the Gauss rifle, which is roughly equivalent in damage to a .50 anti-materiel rifle.
Machine Guns
5mm minigun. 240 round ammo capacity, dishing out 12 damage per shot with a fire rate of 20 rounds per second.
Gatling laser. 240 round ammo capacity, dishing out 7 damage per shot with a fire rate of 30 rounds per second.
Mortars, Towed Guns, Self-Propelled Guns, Rocket Artillery
Never observed in use by Enclave personnel. There was artillery fire, however, during the battle at the Jefferson Memorial but I never saw the guns themselves. I guess the Fat Man, which fires nuclear weapons, can be counted as this, but no Enclave troops have ever been seen with one and the only one I remember from the game is picked up from a dead Brotherhood of Steel Knight.
Tanks, Reconnaissance Vehicles, Mobile Infantry Combat Vehicles
Never observed in use by Enclave personnel. They have tilt-rotor aircraft, similar to a V-22 Osprey, dubbed vertibirds that shuttle troops around and have done some carpet bombing in random encounters, but that's it.
Grenades
Plasma grenades. Around 150 damage in explosive damage. Not certain about blast radius. I supposed I could get screen shots to estimate.
Pulse grenades. New Vegas says 280 explosive damage and is highly effective against robots and power armor. Non-robots and non-power armored troops take less, though the Fallout wiki doesn't say by how much. Fallout 3 stats say only 10 in explosive damage but and additional 200 damage against robots. It says nothing about power armored troops taking more.
Flamethrowers
Flamers. Close range flamethrower and can hit multiple targets. Not certain about how far the flames shoot, but it appears to be of significantly shorter range than real life flamethrowers.
Heavy incinerator. Effectively a napalm launcher. I've personally fired it against targets on the opposite bank of a river, estimated at around 100 meters, and hit them with this.
Anti-tank and Anti-aircraft Weapons
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... UNCHER.png
Missile launchers. According to Mr. House, who has build these into his Securitrons, they're useful against air and ground targets, though I have no idea how somebody on the ground would expect to hit an aircraft with one by just eyeballing it.
There are also Tesla cannons which I've used to shoot down vertibirds but all the ones I've seen are in possession of the Brotherhood of Steel. I guess in my scenario of a victorious Enclave, they may have these but I'm not certain.
Mines
Frag, plasma, and pulse mines have been seen in use, though the Enclave appears to use only the latter two.
Plasma mine. 75 explosive damage.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... seMine.png
Pulse mine. Only 10 damage against non-robots and non-power armored troops. I assume they wouldn't waste these on the Federation.
Body Armor and NBC Protection
All three suits of power armor in use by the Enclave proof the user against radiation, though not to the degree of a specialized radiation suit. I'm uncertain about chemical weapons, since they aren't used in the game.
Standard Enclave power armor. Using Remnants power armor as the guide, the total damage threshold of this armor would be 36, enough to stop 5.56 rounds and barely allow .308 to go through.
Enclave Tesla armor. Using the cut Remnants Tesla armor as the guide, the total damage threshold of this armor would be 31, enough against 5.56 but not .308.
Enclave Hellfire armor. In addition to the usual radiation resistance, this suit of armor is also fireproofed. I estimate that the damage threshold of this armor to be around 40-42, still barely insufficient against .308.
Miscellaneous
Mind-controlled Deathclaws. I like referring to them as ten-foot-tall murder lizards. Their attacks ignore armor entirely. (If you see one, run. If it sees you, RUN! Not that it helps, since it runs faster than you. My first character, at level 26 or so, was running around Old Olney like a little girl because of the damn Deathclaws there and survived pretty much due to my Super Mutant companion, Fawkes, and his Gatling laser.) There are scramblers that will disable the mind control device, causing them to turn on their masters.
Sentry bots. Armed with miniguns or Gatling lasers and a missile launcher. Heavily armored and fast, giving them Deathclaw levels of health.
Automated turrets. The former hang on ceiling and fire bullets, though I'm not certain of caliber. The latter are placed on the ground and fire lasers.
VB-02 Vertibird. Can haul tons of equipment. Gatling laser and missile racks are the most common armaments on gunship variants.
Bradley-Hercules orbital platform. Fires a crapload of missiles from the sky and obliterates whatever it fires down on. Apparently only two payloads. One used on Liberty Prime and the other possibly against the Enclave's Mobile Base Crawler at Adams Air Force Base or the Citadel/Pentagon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
With these armaments in mind, the Federation or the Enclave? If the Federation, how much of a fight would the Enclave give?
I'm going to run through ground combat tech in the same manner as the ground combat tech page in the main SD.net site. I'm going to use New Vegas weapon statistics when possible since it's more recent and I prefer the armor system used in that game. This does, however, introduce problems since Fallout 3 Enclave armor is not in the game unless added with console commands in PC. The files are in the GECK and the stats for regular Enclave power armor are considerably tougher than the Remnants power armor, which is supposed to be roughly the same as Fallout 3 Enclave power armor. To resolve this, I'm going to assume the stats for Remnants power armor to be same as Enclave power armor, if nobody minds.
Handguns
N99 10mm pistol. 12 round magazine. The only member of the Enclave I've seen use one is Colonel Autumn, and he only used it for a short time in the game before replacing it with a laser pistol. Hits roughly as hard (22 damage) as a 5.56 rifle round (24 damage from New Vegas' Marksman Carbine).
AEP7 laser pistol. 30 round ammo capacity. Hits roughly half as hard (12 damage) as the 10mm pistol, though on occasion will cause the target to disintegrate into a pile of ash without the steam from vaporizing all that water damaging people nearby. Seen mostly in use by Enclave scientists. Colonel Autumn has modified one at the battle at the Jefferson Memorial. It bugs me that there's no trigger guard and there are no sights to aim the damn thing with, even in New Vegas.
Plasma pistol. 8 round capacity (16, but it eats up 2 energy cell things for every shot) for around 33 damage, roughly between 5.56 and .308 in damage done. It occasionally will turn the target into a puddle of goo. As with the laser pistol, I have no idea how that would happen without the steam damaging nearby people. Used mostly by Enclave scientists and officers.
Sub-machine Guns and Carbines
There is a 10mm sub-machine gun in the game but I have never observed it in use by Enclave personnel, so I will disregard it. There are no energy weapons used by the Enclave with full-auto capacity outside of the Gatling laser, hence my decision to classify the following as carbines and not assault rifles. I'm not including the Tri-beam laser rifle since I've never seen one used by the Enclave, only super mutant overlords. Why they get those from, I have no idea.
AER9 laser rifle. 24 round ammo capacity and 22 damage, roughly 5.56 in damage output. Like the laser pistol, it can disintegrate targets on occasion. This thing actually has a trigger guard but no real way of aiming it.
Plasma rifle. 12 round ammo capacity and 47 damage, slightly more than that of a .308 sniper rifle. The weapon does have sights, as of New Vegas, but has no trigger guard. The projectile is also subsonic and can be dodged relatively easily. Like with the plasma pistol, it melts targets into goo on occasion.
Assault Rifles
Never observed in use by Enclave personnel.
Sniper Rifles
Never observed in use by Enclave personnel, not even the Gauss rifle, which is roughly equivalent in damage to a .50 anti-materiel rifle.
Machine Guns
5mm minigun. 240 round ammo capacity, dishing out 12 damage per shot with a fire rate of 20 rounds per second.
Gatling laser. 240 round ammo capacity, dishing out 7 damage per shot with a fire rate of 30 rounds per second.
Mortars, Towed Guns, Self-Propelled Guns, Rocket Artillery
Never observed in use by Enclave personnel. There was artillery fire, however, during the battle at the Jefferson Memorial but I never saw the guns themselves. I guess the Fat Man, which fires nuclear weapons, can be counted as this, but no Enclave troops have ever been seen with one and the only one I remember from the game is picked up from a dead Brotherhood of Steel Knight.
Tanks, Reconnaissance Vehicles, Mobile Infantry Combat Vehicles
Never observed in use by Enclave personnel. They have tilt-rotor aircraft, similar to a V-22 Osprey, dubbed vertibirds that shuttle troops around and have done some carpet bombing in random encounters, but that's it.
Grenades
Plasma grenades. Around 150 damage in explosive damage. Not certain about blast radius. I supposed I could get screen shots to estimate.
Pulse grenades. New Vegas says 280 explosive damage and is highly effective against robots and power armor. Non-robots and non-power armored troops take less, though the Fallout wiki doesn't say by how much. Fallout 3 stats say only 10 in explosive damage but and additional 200 damage against robots. It says nothing about power armored troops taking more.
Flamethrowers
Flamers. Close range flamethrower and can hit multiple targets. Not certain about how far the flames shoot, but it appears to be of significantly shorter range than real life flamethrowers.
Heavy incinerator. Effectively a napalm launcher. I've personally fired it against targets on the opposite bank of a river, estimated at around 100 meters, and hit them with this.
Anti-tank and Anti-aircraft Weapons
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... UNCHER.png
Missile launchers. According to Mr. House, who has build these into his Securitrons, they're useful against air and ground targets, though I have no idea how somebody on the ground would expect to hit an aircraft with one by just eyeballing it.
There are also Tesla cannons which I've used to shoot down vertibirds but all the ones I've seen are in possession of the Brotherhood of Steel. I guess in my scenario of a victorious Enclave, they may have these but I'm not certain.
Mines
Frag, plasma, and pulse mines have been seen in use, though the Enclave appears to use only the latter two.
Plasma mine. 75 explosive damage.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... seMine.png
Pulse mine. Only 10 damage against non-robots and non-power armored troops. I assume they wouldn't waste these on the Federation.
Body Armor and NBC Protection
All three suits of power armor in use by the Enclave proof the user against radiation, though not to the degree of a specialized radiation suit. I'm uncertain about chemical weapons, since they aren't used in the game.
Standard Enclave power armor. Using Remnants power armor as the guide, the total damage threshold of this armor would be 36, enough to stop 5.56 rounds and barely allow .308 to go through.
Enclave Tesla armor. Using the cut Remnants Tesla armor as the guide, the total damage threshold of this armor would be 31, enough against 5.56 but not .308.
Enclave Hellfire armor. In addition to the usual radiation resistance, this suit of armor is also fireproofed. I estimate that the damage threshold of this armor to be around 40-42, still barely insufficient against .308.
Miscellaneous
Mind-controlled Deathclaws. I like referring to them as ten-foot-tall murder lizards. Their attacks ignore armor entirely. (If you see one, run. If it sees you, RUN! Not that it helps, since it runs faster than you. My first character, at level 26 or so, was running around Old Olney like a little girl because of the damn Deathclaws there and survived pretty much due to my Super Mutant companion, Fawkes, and his Gatling laser.) There are scramblers that will disable the mind control device, causing them to turn on their masters.
Sentry bots. Armed with miniguns or Gatling lasers and a missile launcher. Heavily armored and fast, giving them Deathclaw levels of health.
Automated turrets. The former hang on ceiling and fire bullets, though I'm not certain of caliber. The latter are placed on the ground and fire lasers.
VB-02 Vertibird. Can haul tons of equipment. Gatling laser and missile racks are the most common armaments on gunship variants.
Bradley-Hercules orbital platform. Fires a crapload of missiles from the sky and obliterates whatever it fires down on. Apparently only two payloads. One used on Liberty Prime and the other possibly against the Enclave's Mobile Base Crawler at Adams Air Force Base or the Citadel/Pentagon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
With these armaments in mind, the Federation or the Enclave? If the Federation, how much of a fight would the Enclave give?
"I'm just reading through your formspring here, and your responses to many questions seem to indicate that you are ready and willing to sacrifice realism/believability for the sake of (sometimes) marginal increases in gameplay quality. Why is this?"
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
The Federation zaps them all from orbit?
Seriously, what reason do they have to expend personnel for control of an irradiated wasteland?
Seriously, what reason do they have to expend personnel for control of an irradiated wasteland?
"No, no, no, no! Light speed's too slow! Yes, we're gonna have to go right to... Ludicrous speed!"
- Panzersharkcat
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: 2011-02-28 05:36am
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
No clue. Just something I made up because I was bored. I suppose none of the other species in Star Trek would show any interest in them, either.
"I'm just reading through your formspring here, and your responses to many questions seem to indicate that you are ready and willing to sacrifice realism/believability for the sake of (sometimes) marginal increases in gameplay quality. Why is this?"
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
- Panzersharkcat
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: 2011-02-28 05:36am
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
Revised scenario. The exploration team from the Enterprise that got sent down there is captured by the Enclave and taken to Raven Rock. Chances of Federation success?
"I'm just reading through your formspring here, and your responses to many questions seem to indicate that you are ready and willing to sacrifice realism/believability for the sake of (sometimes) marginal increases in gameplay quality. Why is this?"
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
- Darth Paxis
- Padawan Learner
- Posts: 196
- Joined: 2009-03-15 01:11am
- Location: College
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
Pretty good considering they've got a transporter.
If Raven Rock is transporter resistant (radiation, mineral of the week etc...), then the away team is probably boned unless there is some other treknobabble solution handy. The only thing Trek really has in this scenario is space superiority.
If Raven Rock is transporter resistant (radiation, mineral of the week etc...), then the away team is probably boned unless there is some other treknobabble solution handy. The only thing Trek really has in this scenario is space superiority.
KAC-WG
- Panzersharkcat
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: 2011-02-28 05:36am
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
Raven Rock is basically a huge military fallout bunker built into a mountain with only one way in. The prisoners would be taken to the bottom floor. There's not much in the way of radiation there and I have no idea if there would be mineral of the week that would block transporters, though I guess how deep they are inside would block the transporters.
How much effort would the Federation put into rescuing them?
(On an unrelated note, if they were captured by Super Mutants and taken to Vault 87, then they'd be boned just as badly because of the lethal levels of radiation around the main entrance and the only other way in is through a town entirely of children who hate adults and then a bunch of other mutants.)
How much effort would the Federation put into rescuing them?
(On an unrelated note, if they were captured by Super Mutants and taken to Vault 87, then they'd be boned just as badly because of the lethal levels of radiation around the main entrance and the only other way in is through a town entirely of children who hate adults and then a bunch of other mutants.)
"I'm just reading through your formspring here, and your responses to many questions seem to indicate that you are ready and willing to sacrifice realism/believability for the sake of (sometimes) marginal increases in gameplay quality. Why is this?"
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
-
- Sith Acolyte
- Posts: 6179
- Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
- Location: New Zealand
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
If transporters are blocked, the Federation only has two options:
- Negotiate with the Enclave to get the away team released.
- Negotiate with someone else on the planet to go in there and extract the away team. Are there any groups powerful enough to do so ?
The Federation has a lot that they could offer the Enclave. Starting with effectively unlimited supplies of uncontaminated food and water, going all the way up to long term military assistance.
If that doesn't work, they Federation does have the threat of orbital bombardment. Even if most Enclave bases are under too much rock to be threatened by ship weapons, the entrances are still going to be on the surface. As are Enclave troops when they are going from place to place.
So the Federation should be able to negotiate for the release of its away team.
- Negotiate with the Enclave to get the away team released.
- Negotiate with someone else on the planet to go in there and extract the away team. Are there any groups powerful enough to do so ?
The Federation has a lot that they could offer the Enclave. Starting with effectively unlimited supplies of uncontaminated food and water, going all the way up to long term military assistance.
If that doesn't work, they Federation does have the threat of orbital bombardment. Even if most Enclave bases are under too much rock to be threatened by ship weapons, the entrances are still going to be on the surface. As are Enclave troops when they are going from place to place.
So the Federation should be able to negotiate for the release of its away team.
- Panzersharkcat
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: 2011-02-28 05:36am
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
Under this scenario, it assumes a victorious Enclave in the Capital Wasteland. There are other powers in North America, but they are too distant to be of much help. The New California Republic is on the other side of the country and have only just arrived in Nevada around 2277. They'd be too busy with the Battle of Hoover Dam against Caesar's Legion to help out, anyway. There's the Pitt, the remains of Pittsburgh, and they are one of the few places that manufacture things but they run entirely on slave labor and their troops are basically a bunch of thugs. There's the Commonwealth, which is in Massachusetts and centered around MIT, if I remember correctly. They are apparently even more advanced than the Enclave, as producing androids that pass for human is a regular thing for them, but they wouldn't have much of an army.
Negotiation would be the most probable solution. It depends on how willing the Federation is to make a deal with a ruthless, authoritarian, genocidal organization. The Enclave is obsessed with genetic purity. A Nazi by any other name. That was the whole point of the Jefferson Memorial battle. It was a purifier that would clean up the tidal basin and the Enclave's original plan was dumping a modified version of the Forced Evolution Virus (FEV) into the water supply, killing anything that mutated. Colonel Autumn, the leader of this scenario's Enclave, opposed it as it went too far and he'd prefer to have people to rule over.
If we are following the canon storyline, however, then the Federation could talk to the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood of Steel. They would definitely appreciate Federation technology and they are no friends of the Enclave. Having a 40-foot-tall robot that crushes everything in its path with eye beams and nuclear weapons is a bonus.
Negotiation would be the most probable solution. It depends on how willing the Federation is to make a deal with a ruthless, authoritarian, genocidal organization. The Enclave is obsessed with genetic purity. A Nazi by any other name. That was the whole point of the Jefferson Memorial battle. It was a purifier that would clean up the tidal basin and the Enclave's original plan was dumping a modified version of the Forced Evolution Virus (FEV) into the water supply, killing anything that mutated. Colonel Autumn, the leader of this scenario's Enclave, opposed it as it went too far and he'd prefer to have people to rule over.
If we are following the canon storyline, however, then the Federation could talk to the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood of Steel. They would definitely appreciate Federation technology and they are no friends of the Enclave. Having a 40-foot-tall robot that crushes everything in its path with eye beams and nuclear weapons is a bonus.
"I'm just reading through your formspring here, and your responses to many questions seem to indicate that you are ready and willing to sacrifice realism/believability for the sake of (sometimes) marginal increases in gameplay quality. Why is this?"
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
-
- Sith Acolyte
- Posts: 6179
- Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
- Location: New Zealand
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
Too distant for them to get their on their own. But the Federation can assist with that, either with transporters or shuttlecraft.Panzersharkcat wrote:There are other powers in North America, but they are too distant to be of much help.
Yes, that is one problem. But not as big a problem as the Prime Directive. The Fallout Earth is a pre-warp civilisation, meaning Federation ships are generally not allowed to interfere. Especially if we are talking about TNG era.Negotiation would be the most probable solution. It depends on how willing the Federation is to make a deal with a ruthless, authoritarian, genocidal organization.
I'm not sure if that would change if the Federation finds out about the alien abductions, or even if they find proof that the aliens started the nukes flying.
- FaxModem1
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 7700
- Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
- Location: In a dark reflection of a better world
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
The aliens started the nukes flying, when was this established?
Also, in TNG, they did have rescue missions to planets before. "Too Short a Season" and Tasha Yar's planet Turkana IV.
Also, in TNG, they did have rescue missions to planets before. "Too Short a Season" and Tasha Yar's planet Turkana IV.
- Panzersharkcat
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: 2011-02-28 05:36am
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
The NCR has its hands full with the Legion, and they had a hard time fighting the Enclave way back in Fallout 2. The Legion itself is highly technophobic. Caesar would probably crucify any Federation diplomats for suggesting that they use transporters. The Mojave chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel is probably still licking its wounds from Helios One. The rest of them in Lost Hills probably don't care. The guys running the Pitt are a bunch of slavers and plain ordinary goons. They would get slaughtered by the Enclave. I don't know about the Commonwealth or the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel, though. The Midwestern Brotherhood is pretty authoritarian itself, after all.bilateralrope wrote: Too distant for them to get their on their own. But the Federation can assist with that, either with transporters or shuttlecraft.
It might, especially if the aliens there try shooting down the Enterprise. And I don't think the aliens did cause the nukes to star flying. It's only one of the wild mass guesses.bilateralrope wrote: Yes, that is one problem. But not as big a problem as the Prime Directive. The Fallout Earth is a pre-warp civilisation, meaning Federation ships are generally not allowed to interfere. Especially if we are talking about TNG era.
I'm not sure if that would change if the Federation finds out about the alien abductions, or even if they find proof that the aliens started the nukes flying.
(That opens up another possible scenario that I might try later: The Enterprise gets shot down and crashes into the Capital Wasteland and the surviving crew gets captured by the Enclave. Even then, they might work something out along the lines of the Federation helping the Enclave take out the alien ships to get some alien tech in exchange for the prisoners.)
"I'm just reading through your formspring here, and your responses to many questions seem to indicate that you are ready and willing to sacrifice realism/believability for the sake of (sometimes) marginal increases in gameplay quality. Why is this?"
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
The Enclave is essentially static as a matter of doctrine. Even if the Federation cannot use their transporters at will due to (insert X here), they still get to dictate the terms of every engagement through technology alone, and the Enclave seems content to hunker down and bide their time. Federation advantage is that of mobility and sensors, and it appears to be a crushing one. The only saving grace is that I can't see the Federation easily subverting Enclave networks, as they appear to be compartmentalized.
That said, infantry combat against Enclave troopers would be a nasty proposition given the state of Federation ground equipment.
That said, infantry combat against Enclave troopers would be a nasty proposition given the state of Federation ground equipment.
Björn Paulsen
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
-
- Jedi Master
- Posts: 1049
- Joined: 2008-03-23 02:46pm
- Location: Texas
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
Since proximity to one of the reactors of the USS Enterprise aircraft carrier in Star Trek IV was enough to rended Chekov's phaser inoperable, and EM fields and ionizing radiation has blocked or interfered with transporters before, I'm gonna guess the radioactive wastelands are gonna play hell with Federation equipment. They be forced to use shuttles rather than transporters.
Your ad here.
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
Not really. First Contact showed that they could beam down just outside a breached nuclear silo. Areas of low-level radiation (the vast majority of the wasteland) should be fine.Swindle1984 wrote:Since proximity to one of the reactors of the USS Enterprise aircraft carrier in Star Trek IV was enough to rended Chekov's phaser inoperable, and EM fields and ionizing radiation has blocked or interfered with transporters before, I'm gonna guess the radioactive wastelands are gonna play hell with Federation equipment. They be forced to use shuttles rather than transporters.
Björn Paulsen
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
Also in ST IV they were on a commandeered Bird of Prey which was cloaked, so I wouldn't rule out that being part of the issue as well. It's been years since I saw it, but a quick look at the script shows that Scotty didn't mention 'interference' from the close promixity to the reactor, but that his transporter is losing power.
- Panzersharkcat
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: 2011-02-28 05:36am
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
Is there any tech the Enclave may have that could jam Federation transporters? If so, how much would that change things?
Also, I just realized that I forgot to mention that Enclave troops occasionally have rippers, basically a chainsaw on a stick. Not that it'd be a major game breaker or anything.
Also, I just realized that I forgot to mention that Enclave troops occasionally have rippers, basically a chainsaw on a stick. Not that it'd be a major game breaker or anything.
"I'm just reading through your formspring here, and your responses to many questions seem to indicate that you are ready and willing to sacrifice realism/believability for the sake of (sometimes) marginal increases in gameplay quality. Why is this?"
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
-
- Sith Acolyte
- Posts: 6179
- Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
- Location: New Zealand
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
One of the recordings in Mothership Zeta is the aliens interrogating one of their prisoners for the launch codes.FaxModem1 wrote:The aliens started the nukes flying, when was this established?
Not enough to say for certain that it is what happened, only to say that it's a possibility.
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
Depending how bad they want their away team back, the Feds have plenty of options. If transporters can be used on the surface, I could see random members of the Enclave being beamed up and dumped into the brig. Depending on how many ships went through the wormhole, the Enclave would soon find that by leaving Raven Rock, they'll be "disintegrated" (unless being told, they would probably not distinguish a transporter beam to a disintegration by an energy weapon.).
If the Feds are impatient, besides transporting (at the same time disabling any weapons) exposed Enclave members, the Feds could seal all entrances shut with a few shots from a ship's phaser and randomly pound Raven Rock with photon torpedoes.
In no way would the Enclave succeed.
I'd also say that the alien ship in orbit would also get the Feds attention and would send over an away team if communications were denied or jammed to check out the ship.
If the Feds are impatient, besides transporting (at the same time disabling any weapons) exposed Enclave members, the Feds could seal all entrances shut with a few shots from a ship's phaser and randomly pound Raven Rock with photon torpedoes.
In no way would the Enclave succeed.
I'd also say that the alien ship in orbit would also get the Feds attention and would send over an away team if communications were denied or jammed to check out the ship.
ASVS('97)/SDN('03)
"Whilst human alchemists refer to the combustion triangle, some of their orcish counterparts see it as more of a hexagon: heat, fuel, air, laughter, screaming, fun." Dawn of the Dragons
ASSCRAVATS!
"Whilst human alchemists refer to the combustion triangle, some of their orcish counterparts see it as more of a hexagon: heat, fuel, air, laughter, screaming, fun." Dawn of the Dragons
ASSCRAVATS!
- Connor MacLeod
- Sith Apprentice
- Posts: 14065
- Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
- Contact:
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
I imagine it would depend on exactly how the phenomena (any we've seen) causes interference. Radiation might just mess with the sensors and render transporters effectively impossible to use because an accurate "lock" is impossible (you don't want to beam your target back buried partway into the floors or wall, or only pull back 89% of the body, for example) In such a case. Anything that blocks or confuses sensors probably will hamper transporter use - it wouldn't neccesairly prevent it totally, but it could make it inaccurate, difficult, or dangeorus to use (which depending on waht you transport, could suffice.)Eleas wrote: Not really. First Contact showed that they could beam down just outside a breached nuclear silo. Areas of low-level radiation (the vast majority of the wasteland) should be fine.
The other way phenomena might interfere with a transporter is blocking or disrupting the matter stream itself (which you could think of as an exotic forcefield/particle beam type effect). Suffiicently large volumes of matter, or high enough density matter (however massive/dense that needs be - I don't know), tractor beams, shields (possibly only certain kinds.. this is probably up for debate) would all qualify here.
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
Does it seriously matter whether the Feds have to come down the slow way? THEY'RE IN SPACE. The Feds can just lob rocks at the Enclave until they start doing whatever the Feds want, if bribery doesn't work. It's not as if the Wasteland is teeming with life and baby children.
"A word of advice: next time you post, try not to inadvertently reveal why you've had no success with real women." Darth Wong to Bubble Boy
"I see you do not understand objectivity," said Tom Carder, a fundie fucknut to Darth Wong
"I see you do not understand objectivity," said Tom Carder, a fundie fucknut to Darth Wong
- Panzersharkcat
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: 2011-02-28 05:36am
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
How would they separate transported Enclave troopers from their weapons? I imagine there's a process that strips their weapons away upon transporting but if there isn't, pajamas and phasers vs power armor and plasma rifles that melt you into goo would not go well. I also imagine some Fed prisoners would talk under interrogation on Federation capabilities and, likewise, some Enclave prisoners might spill the beans on Enclave capabilities.Enigma wrote:Depending how bad they want their away team back, the Feds have plenty of options. If transporters can be used on the surface, I could see random members of the Enclave being beamed up and dumped into the brig. Depending on how many ships went through the wormhole, the Enclave would soon find that by leaving Raven Rock, they'll be "disintegrated" (unless being told, they would probably not distinguish a transporter beam to a disintegration by an energy weapon.).
Enigma wrote: If the Feds are impatient, besides transporting (at the same time disabling any weapons) exposed Enclave members, the Feds could seal all entrances shut with a few shots from a ship's phaser and randomly pound Raven Rock with photon torpedoes.
Blowing up the entrance to Raven Rock would be self-defeating since the Feds would be trapping their own prisoners in there.
While the Enclave do have force fields, it's nothing special that would gum up transporters. The background radiation gumming up transporters and forcing them to use a shuttle would explain how they got captured in the first place rather than getting transported back to the ship.Connor MacLeod wrote: I imagine it would depend on exactly how the phenomena (any we've seen) causes interference. Radiation might just mess with the sensors and render transporters effectively impossible to use because an accurate "lock" is impossible (you don't want to beam your target back buried partway into the floors or wall, or only pull back 89% of the body, for example) In such a case. Anything that blocks or confuses sensors probably will hamper transporter use - it wouldn't neccesairly prevent it totally, but it could make it inaccurate, difficult, or dangeorus to use (which depending on waht you transport, could suffice.)
The other way phenomena might interfere with a transporter is blocking or disrupting the matter stream itself (which you could think of as an exotic forcefield/particle beam type effect). Suffiicently large volumes of matter, or high enough density matter (however massive/dense that needs be - I don't know), tractor beams, shields (possibly only certain kinds.. this is probably up for debate) would all qualify here.
Here's Liberty Prime taking one out in the picture.
"I'm just reading through your formspring here, and your responses to many questions seem to indicate that you are ready and willing to sacrifice realism/believability for the sake of (sometimes) marginal increases in gameplay quality. Why is this?"
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
- Batman
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 16432
- Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
- Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
The ability to disable weapons during transport has been demonstrated repeatedly, and the very purpose of the biofilter (if it happens to work as intended for a change) is to strip unwanted materials from the transportee, so I don't see why taking away their weapons and armour (not that disabling them wouldn't work anyway) wouldn't be entirely possible.
The problem with transporting out of CVN-65s engine room in TVH was explicitly stated to be a power problem, the radiation had nothing to do with it. Of course, ambient radiation as present on Fallout Earth might be a whole different ballgame.
The problem with transporting out of CVN-65s engine room in TVH was explicitly stated to be a power problem, the radiation had nothing to do with it. Of course, ambient radiation as present on Fallout Earth might be a whole different ballgame.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
- Panzersharkcat
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: 2011-02-28 05:36am
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
I suspected there was something for that purpose, which would be common sense, but I wasn't sure. Thanks for clarifying.
"I'm just reading through your formspring here, and your responses to many questions seem to indicate that you are ready and willing to sacrifice realism/believability for the sake of (sometimes) marginal increases in gameplay quality. Why is this?"
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
I didn't say blowing up the entrance. I said sealing it. The ship's phasers are powerful enough to melt the doors shut, sealing them in. Then they can randomly pound the mountain their in with photon torpedoes to rattle their nerves. Once the Enclave cave in, it should not be a problem for the Feds to cut their way in.Panzersharkcat wrote:Enigma wrote: If the Feds are impatient, besides transporting (at the same time disabling any weapons) exposed Enclave members, the Feds could seal all entrances shut with a few shots from a ship's phaser and randomly pound Raven Rock with photon torpedoes.
Blowing up the entrance to Raven Rock would be self-defeating since the Feds would be trapping their own prisoners in there.
ASVS('97)/SDN('03)
"Whilst human alchemists refer to the combustion triangle, some of their orcish counterparts see it as more of a hexagon: heat, fuel, air, laughter, screaming, fun." Dawn of the Dragons
ASSCRAVATS!
"Whilst human alchemists refer to the combustion triangle, some of their orcish counterparts see it as more of a hexagon: heat, fuel, air, laughter, screaming, fun." Dawn of the Dragons
ASSCRAVATS!
- Panzersharkcat
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: 2011-02-28 05:36am
Re: The Capital Wasteland Enclave vs the Federation
That's true. I wondered for a moment about accuracy since I remember the main SD.net site mention fairly low combat ranges, but that shouldn't be much of an issue since the door can't exactly move.Enigma wrote:I didn't say blowing up the entrance. I said sealing it. The ship's phasers are powerful enough to melt the doors shut, sealing them in. Then they can randomly pound the mountain their in with photon torpedoes to rattle their nerves. Once the Enclave cave in, it should not be a problem for the Feds to cut their way in.Panzersharkcat wrote:Enigma wrote: If the Feds are impatient, besides transporting (at the same time disabling any weapons) exposed Enclave members, the Feds could seal all entrances shut with a few shots from a ship's phaser and randomly pound Raven Rock with photon torpedoes.
Blowing up the entrance to Raven Rock would be self-defeating since the Feds would be trapping their own prisoners in there.
http://images.wikia.com/fallout/images/ ... k_hill.jpg
The entrance to Raven Rock.
There is still the matter of background radiation maybe (it's iffy) causing problems with transporting Enclave troops but overall, I suppose the Enclave would lose. I was hoping they'd put up a better fight.
"I'm just reading through your formspring here, and your responses to many questions seem to indicate that you are ready and willing to sacrifice realism/believability for the sake of (sometimes) marginal increases in gameplay quality. Why is this?"
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer