Uprising in Libya

[Aaron]

I'm glad we are flying over Libya now. This is the kind of foreign action the Canadian public can easily support, especially since it furthers our heritage as peace keepers and peace makers with the UN.

I wonder if Harper will use this as a justification for the F-35 purchase?

Probably. It also gives our fighter jocks something to do besides intercept airliners and go to airshows. Vital operational experience.

[Zixinus]

Awesome. Fuck that, this is one of the best pieces of news I have heard all weak regarding global news. The UN got its foot in and its shoving it down Gadafi's throat. I hope the bastard doesn't choke immediately, just so he realizes how fucked up he is.

GO LIBYA!

[Pelranius]

American cruise missiles are hitting Tripoli and Misrata.

U.S. launches first missiles against Gadhafi forces
By the CNN Wire Staff
March 19, 2011 4:04 p.m. EDT

Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- The U.S. military has launched its first missiles in Libya against Moammar Gadhafi's forces, a senior Defense Department official said Saturday.

Earlier, French fighter jets deployed over Libya fired at a military vehicle on Saturday, the country's first strike against Moammar Gadhafi's military forces who earlier attacked the rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

U.S. Tomahawk missiles have landed in the western area around Tripoli and Misrata, the American military official said.

"He's clearly been on the offensive," the official said of Gadhafi. "He said that he was going to do a cease-fire and he continued to move his forces into Benghazi."

The military official said the attacks on Gadhafi's forces will be part of a multiphase approach in a sequential and deliberate manner.

"The U.S. will be at the front end of this, providing the unique capabilities that the U.S has," the official said.

While French jets launched the first attacks on Gadhafi's forces, Americans jets will be part of the enforcement. "When this commences, we'll have American aircraft involved," the official said.

The French Defense Ministry said its attack aircraft being used to take out tanks and artillery have deemed Benghazi and the surrounding area an "exclusion zone."

The French are using surveillance aircraft and two frigates in the operation to protect civilians. The aircraft carrier Charles De Gaulle will soon depart Toulon, France.

"Our air force will oppose any aggression by Colonel Gadhafi against the population of Benghazi," said French President Nicolas Sarkozy, speaking after an international, top-level meeting in Paris over the Libyan crisis.

"As of now, our aircraft are preventing planes from attacking the town," he said, calling the intervention a "grave decision."

The international show of force is much welcomed by besieged rebel forces who have called for backup to help them stave off a government offensive against their positions in Benghazi and other rebel-held enclaves

An opposition spokesman in Benghazi said Gadhafi forces that assaulted the city earlier Saturday are now positioned outside the town. However, the forces are preparing for more attacks.

Western and Arab allies were coordinating the use of military assets to thwart Gadhafi's offensive.

Canada will be one of four principal partners helping to enforce the no-fly zone over Libya. Six Canadian CF-18 fighter jets are en route to an Italian base in Sicily and the HMCS Charlottetown will be in position to help with the naval blockade against Libya.

British officials held a crisis meeting Saturday evening.

The United States continued to broadcast the message that it is a member of, and is assisting, the coalition, rather than taking the lead role.

"America has unique capabilities, and we will bring them to bear to help our European and Canadian allies and Arab partners to stop further violence against civilians including through the effective implementation of a no-fly zone," Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said.

Sarkozy said Gadhafi still has time to stop its activities. As of Friday, France, Britain, the United States and Arab League nations passed along a warning for Gadhafi to stop his operations immediately.

But "Gadhafi has totally ignored the warning" and "in the last few hours his forces have stepped up their deadly offenses," Sarkozy said.

The international coalition meeting in Paris -- which included Western and Arab partners -- focused on how to take on a Libyan government bent on destroying the fledgling opposition movement under the U.N. resolution authorizing force to protect civilians against the Gadhafi government.

Speaking from Brasilia, Brazil, U.S. President Barack Obama said the international coalition was united. "Our consensus was strong and our resolve is clear. The people of Libya must be protected."

Asked whether the decision to carry out bombing against Libyan forces could begin immediately after Saturday's session ends, a senior State Department official said: "In terms of when the bombing starts, I'll leave that for others to lay out at the appropriate time.

"Everybody recognizes the urgency," he said.

Herman Van Rompuy, president of the European Council, said the European Union is ready to give a "new Libya" economic help and aid in building new institutions.

In Rome, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's office confirmed to CNN that Berlusconi has proposed the use of the NATO base in southern Italy as a command center for allied action in Libya.

Clinton said despite talk of a cease-fire from Libya, Moammar Gadhafi "continues to defy the world."

"His attacks on civilians go on," she told reporters Saturday.

But after Gadhafi forces earlier Saturday assaulted Benghazi, the opposition said the military repositioned itself far outside the city.

Earlier Saturday, incoming artillery rounds landed inside the city, and pro-Gadhafi tanks rolled into the town firing rounds, witnesses said. Plumes of smoke rose in Benghazi as civilians said buildings came under small arms fire. Many fled their homes in fear of a full-blown assault there.

A flaming fighter jet plummeted from the sky, nose-diving to the ground. Khaled el-Sayeh, the opposition military spokesman, said the plane was an old MiG-23 that belonged to the rebels.

But as night fell over Benghazi on Saturday, the city became quiet and calm. While plumes of smoke could be spotted, the pro-Gadhafi tanks seen earlier were not in sight. El-Sayeh told CNN that "tens" have been killed in Benghazi on Saturday and opposition forces found 13 men clad in Libyan military uniforms bound and executed in a building that had been used by pro-Gadhafi forces to launch artillery assaults.

He said Gadhafi forces have withdrawn from the city and that they are now positioned 50 kilometers (31 miles) outside Benghazi on the road east to Ajdabiya. CNN could not independently verify those details.

In western Libya, pro-Gadhafi forces subjected the city of Misrata to heavy shelling, an opposition member said.

In Tripoli, Gadhafi's supporters took to the streets.

Libyan state TV now showed images of pro-Gadhafi demonstrations, and broadcast pictures of fireworks by pro-Gadhafi demonstrators over the Libyan leader's military compound in Tripoli. On the streets in Tripoli, people were waving green Libyan flags and singing pro-Gadhafi songs.

Earlier Saturday, Gadhafi issued defiant messages to international powers

"I have all the Libyan people with me and I'm prepared to die. And they are prepared to die for me. Men, women and even children," Gadhafi said in a letter addressed to Obama and read to reporters by a government spokesman in Tripoli on Saturday.

Fighting has raged in Libya over the last day despite the government's announcement of an "immediate" cease-fire on Friday.

The declaration -- which came hours after the U.N. Security Council resolution authorized the use of force, including a no-fly zone -- was seen by rebels as simply a move to buy itself time.

Gadhafi -- in a separate letter addressed to Sarkozy, British Prime Minister David Cameron and U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon -- called the U.N. moves "invalid" because the resolution does not permit intervention in the internal affairs of other countries.

"Libya is not yours. Libya is for all Libyans," said the letter, also read by the spokesman. "You will regret it if you take a step toward intervening in our internal affairs.

"It is not your country. We could never and would never fire one bullet against our people," the letter said.

Violence has raged in Libya following protests calling for democracy and freedom and demanding an end to Gadhafi's almost 42-year-long rule. It's a conflict spurred by anti-government protest and resulting regime violence against civilians -- which the U.N. resolution cites as "outrageous" and Sarkozy calls "murderous madness."

But Gadhafi defended his actions in his note to Obama. He said his opponents are from al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, the group's North African wing, and asked Obama what he would do if such an armed movement controlled American cities.

"Tell me, how would you behave so I could follow your example?"

The civil war has hurt Libya's oil production, which Shokri Ghanem, the nation's oil minister, called "our most important source of income and our lifeblood."

Speaking to reporters in Tripoli on Saturday, he said the abandoment of the work force amid the conflict is the main reason for a drop in production.

He said Libya wants to restore its fields and increase production. He stressed that Libya is honoring all its commitments despite the conflict and asked foreign and local employees to return.

CNN's Arwa Damon, Chris Lawrence, Jill Dougherty, Elise Labott, Jim Bittermann, Paula Newton and Nic Robertson contributed to this report

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03 ... 1&iref=BN1

[Justforfun000]

And.....the UN sanctioned boot-the-dictator out war has begun. It couldn't happen to a nicer fella.

[CaptainChewbacca]

And the official name is 'Operation Odyssey Dawn'.

[Lord Woodlouse]

110 missiles fired from US and British ships, says the Pentagon.

[Tribun]

110 missiles fired from US and British ships, says the Pentagon.

Considering that this is still day 1, and Libya has significantly less military power than Iraq in 2003, I can imagine that this, should it continue for some days, can seriously cripple Gaddafi's military power.

Btw. he has already pulled the "you killed civilians, you bastards!" card. As if anyone would believe him at this point.

[MKSheppard]

And.....the UN sanctioned boot-the-dictator out war has begun. It couldn't happen to a nicer fella.

Oh this should be fun. How long until the protests begin?

[Serafina]

And.....the UN sanctioned boot-the-dictator out war has begun. It couldn't happen to a nicer fella.

Oh this should be fun. How long until the protests begin?

Given the current situation in Libya, there will hardly be any protests due to Gaddafi getting his butt kicked. Even the anti-military people here in Germany (at least those i know) are not that happy with our decision to stay out of this.
Now if the whole thing turns into a drawn-out war against the Libyans (in the form of rebels and such), that's another story.

[Duckie]

I'm more interested in seeing how the arab world reacts than the west, really. I think that's what Shep was referring to.

[Serafina]

I'm more interested in seeing how the arab world reacts than the west, really. I think that's what Shep was referring to.

Ah, that makes more sense and is indeed the more relevant question.

[Tribun]

Well, in this case it was a smart move to get many arab nations to decide on the matter as well (in the UN and in Paris today), so it can't be solely put on "the West".

Oh, and you'll love this. Apparently, the western armies have better connections to the rebels than admitted. As it is reported, the rebels give them all the information they have about where the enemy is. Having this kind of intel should make strikes much more effective.

[D.Turtle]

I wonder just how coordinated this campaign will be between the military forces of the rebels and the various forces of the world. As it seems - and was authorized by the UN Security Council, they are doing a lot more than just enforcing a no-fly zone. If it is done similar to the inititial campaign in Afghanistan - forward air controllers/special forces travelling with the rebels designating strike targets for the bombers - this campaign could turn against Gaddafi very quickly and be over quite soon.

[Lonestar]

Considering that this is still day 1, and Libya has significantly less military power than Iraq in 2003, I can imagine that this, should it continue for some days, can seriously cripple Gaddafi's military power.

Btw. he has already pulled the "you killed civilians, you bastards!" card. As if anyone would believe him at this point.

The US won't be able to salvo that many TLAMs again and again...there simply aren't that many USN assets in the AO, and I strongly suspect that Obama doesn't want to "take ownership" of the Libyan War.

[erik_t]

Seems likely we just about emptied Florida's tubes. Not as if we have a pile of Sprucans with nothing to fill cells but BGM-109.

[MKSheppard]

Given the current situation in Libya, there will hardly be any protests due to Gaddafi getting his butt kicked.

I remember when everyone was all for going into Afghanistan and kicking the Taliban's ass in 9/13/2001; because they were sheltering and harboring Al-Quaeda and OBL.

It was pretty much an open-shut case, like it appears to be in Libya right now, with Quadaffi killing rebels.

Now? I see this kind of stuff when I drive up and down Georgia Avenue on my way to research in DC:

Signs I see

Used to be they also referenced Iraq too, but the newer model signs have just A-Stan.

So I'm very ambivalent on this; because I feel that this won't just end with the rebels suddenly surging back to overthrow Gadhaffi backed by selective foreign airstrikes. If they were strong enough to overthrow Gadhaffi, they'd have done it two weeks ago, when they were much stronger than they are now.

So some sort of foreign intervention with ground troops is in the cards at some point. The fact that Libya is a decent producer of oil practically writes the protest signs.

Ah well. It'll be fun to see people walking around the streets wearing caricature masks of Obama and Sarkozy, holding up signs that say OBAMA/SARKOZY IS A PSYCHOTIC MURDERER.

BTW, if killing your own people is now the sine qua non for foreign intervention, then by that standard, the US invasion of Iraq was justified, as Saddam was far, far worse on this aspect than Gadhaffi ever will be.

[Aaron]

Well as we've committed the majority of our ground forces to Afghanistan, the only guys I expect see in country are the JTF (who if they aren't in already are most certainly on standby) and maybe CSOR if they need heavy backup. And that's just fine with me.

As for comparisons with Iraq, well the 2003 invasion wasn't sold on that alone, now was it? Though there really doesn't seem to be any point in rehashing that anymore.

[MKSheppard]

Apparently we are committed to regime change:

Marc Ambinder Twitter

End game? Admin official says: "we have multiple scenarios, but none of them end with Qadaffi in power."

[Zed]

Apparently we are committed to regime change:

Marc Ambinder Twitter

End game? Admin official says: "we have multiple scenarios, but none of them end with Qadaffi in power."

There's no U.N. mandate for that, though.

[Pelranius]

Ah well. It'll be fun to see people walking around the streets wearing caricature masks of Obama and Sarkozy, holding up signs that say OBAMA/SARKOZY IS A PSYCHOTIC MURDERER.

BTW, if killing your own people is now the sine qua non for foreign intervention, then by that standard, the US invasion of Iraq was justified, as Saddam was far, far worse on this aspect than Gadhaffi ever will be.

Well, to cross the t's and dot the i's, Mr. Al Tikriti wasn't engaged in mass murder in 2003.

If there has to be intervention, we can probably get someone from the Arab world to pony up most of the troops.

[Skgoa]

Shep, lets see how this is different from Dubya's wars:
- Obama/Sarkozy didn't lie blatantly (and pretty obviously) to the whole world
- Obama/Sarkozy didn't go "rar! we know whats best and if you don't shut up, you are in the axis of evil!"
- Obama/Sarkozy didn't build a concentration camp on Cuba
- Obama/Sarkozy didn't order people abducted and tortured on a massive scale
- ...

You get it now?


e/ The moment the first libyan woman is raped by US Marines, I will go protest for them to leave. But if for once you guys live up to your own hype, even a pacifist like me can be happy with the way this unfolds.

[Zixinus]

I think that it wasn't kicking out Saddam that was the problem: it was staying there for several years, even after Saddam left for no clear reason.

Also, unless I remember details of the Iraqi war badly, this thing was started by the Libyans and who actually made a new government. There is a good possibility that the US will just do what it does best: bomb the ever-loving shit out of something and leave the Libya to the Libyans.

EDIT: But to be fair with Shep: Obama hasn't had time to repeat Bush's crimesdecisions. We shall see how this will end up.

[somnick]

American cruise missiles are hitting Tripoli and Misrata.

But Gadhafi defended his actions in his note to Obama. He said his opponents are from al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, the group's North African wing, and asked Obama what he would do if such an armed movement controlled American cities.

"Tell me, how would you behave so I could follow your example?"

I felt that told me something about Gaddafis mindset. Apparently he believes Obama is remotely in a similar position as he is and just doesnt understand what BEING ELECTED means at all. And in his hybris he seems to think the president of the US would give a iota to his friendly "from president to president" talk. That's as much a sign that he has lost touch with reality as his oher ramblings.

[cosmicalstorm]

This does feel very different from Iraq. Here in Sweden there was a huge public outcry against the Iraq-invasion before it started, there were large demonstrations in all the big cities. This time, even the most extreme left newspapers are having a hard time denying that there will be a gruesome genocide unless foreign intervention occurs.

[MKSheppard]

I must say that Gadhaffi and his sons have handled this very expertly.

They correctly deduced the right amount of force to use against the rebels that would not rouse international outrage.

For example, while they are brutally putting down the rebellion; they are careful to give the appearance of selectivity.

In Tripoli, they're taking away masses of people. While a lot are being shot out of hand and dumped in unmarked graves, a lot more are simply being let free.

Likewise, while they are clearly using massive, overwhelming force to regain towns, e.g. indiscriminate tank and BM-21 shelling to soften the place up, they are careful to not totally smash the place to rubble.

Basically, they stop just short of killing enough of the population to avoid triggering huge international outcry and unrest and to try and maintain the appearance of 'an internal affair'.

This has worked before, see Saddam 1992-93 and Assad with Hama. Gadhaffi just miscalculated a bit on the effects it would have internationally if he continued.