Dragon Age 2

[SylasGaunt]

^ Indeed. I'm most of the way through Act 1 (my copy only arrived the other day) and I'm already trying to take a distinctly pro-mage attitude, which is informed by a lifetime of knowing Bethany. However, that may change. I've already seen a mage turn into an Abomination once in the game.

Find the Enigma of Kirkwall codex stuff for some fun Mage issues related to Kirkwall.
Spoiler

The Veil is thin around Kirkwall due to the copious amounts of horrible shit that happened there.. meaning it's easier for things like demons to get out and into people.

Also since I finished it the other day I just have to add, once more...
Spoiler

ENCHANTMENT!

[The Grim Squeaker]

^ Indeed. I'm most of the way through Act 1 (my copy only arrived the other day) and I'm already trying to take a distinctly pro-mage attitude, which is informed by a lifetime of knowing Bethany. However, that may change. I've already seen a mage turn into an Abomination once in the game.

The "Help the Templars" option feels rather like the "Turn to evil in the final battle" options in many older RPGs. (Turn to the Shadow King in NWN2, merge with the Paranoid incarnation in PS:T, etc').
In that, it's obviously the evil choice.

Which is a shame, since the game makes a good point of how magic in Dragon Age is almost as dangerous as the Warp in 40k (in that everyone using it has a chance of exploding into a gibbering daemonic abomination, and anyone can get a powerup by foul and unholy rituals).
But the Templar ending just didn't feel like an alternative option, it felt like choosing the "Evil" option. "Yes, let's slaughter all the mages! All of them! [The option of letting a few live is only bought up by Cullen halfway through, with the example of the Ferelden circle's annulment], then watch as you're inevitably betrayed!".

Orsino turning into a abomination is utterly stupid (in the mage path at least. In the Templar path, with it being confirmed that he had ties to the Blood mage, and the cause for desperation it makes a bit more sense).

Spoiler

ENCHANTMENT!

Still not as impressive as in the first game (where it wasn't as blatantly foreshadowed, and thus awesomer )

[adam_grif]

The game didn't feel small, to me, it felt personal. I liked the fact that I wasn't expected to stomp all over a continent with the fate of the world hanging in the balance; I especially loved the fact that my actions ended up having a global political impact (setting sparks for wars and upsetting power balances) even though the motive and reach of my actions remained personal (protect family, get ahead in life, help friends). It was a good fucking idea and probably the first time that Bioware has written a story that tries to expand on your actions; In Mass effect and Dragon Age 1, you knew that the world was about to end and you were all that stood in evil's way, because you were basically Jesus or He Man or something. Dragon Age 2 made a better attempt at the ripples in the pond effect.

Spoiler

The tiny scope made it more and more ridiculous that I was killing such vast numbers of enemies. In DA1 at least you had the excuse of the darkspawn invasion, in DA2 it was pretty much just a Gotham city thing where every occupant of the city is a blood mage or a gangster ready to throw themselves into the Hawke meat grinder. Blood magic was supposed to be like this rare thing that was totally forbidden, something you had to make a deal with a demon to get. But every fucking mage in the universe is using it circa DA2, people are turning into abominations left, right and centre, and I think I personally killed about 4 dragons. That so much stuff went down in a single city over the course of 7 years is frankly absurd.

Of course the BWare excuse for any and all bad writing or implausible things is "derp Varric was an unreliable narrator", which is basically the ultimate cop-out. You say that you felt like your choices really mattered, but how much did you try to go off the beaten path? You fight the same two final bosses regardless of which side you pick (Orsino spontaneously turning to a blood magic ritual when I was cleaning up the templars no problems was ridiculous and stupid, but it would have been forgivable if he actually used it just to fight templars and you were siding with him... but you don't), your sibling always leaves you after the deep roads no-matter what happens, Anders always nukes the chantry even if you don't help him, the mages always rise up at the end of the game no-matter what, etc. This game didn't come close to matching ME2 in terms of how important the DA1 save file import was either. I tried to cooperate with that rock demon thing in the deep roads to let it keeps its treasure and let me go, but the game forced it to attack me. I helped an apostate mage escape the templars by running interference instead of turning her over to the circle... and she got caught off-screen anyway. The game is almost terrified of actually letting you change things.

I'm not going to act like it's a horrible game or anything, but it was quite disappointing on many fronts. I think the thing that bothered me the most was something I didn't even notice at first - there are very few instances of actually peacefully negotiating out of a situation. Nine times out of ten the person attacks you anyway and you have to have a big multi-wave fight before you finally get them at your mercy and then choose to do whatever. The absence of a persuasion skill probably didn't help this situation. The only really notable one I can think of is Merril's clan going psycho, but the way you have to talk her down is kind of random and you have no way of knowing that picking the asshole option is actually what does it.

Spoiler tag added to entire post. Jesus Christ, it should not be too fucking hard to use spoiler tags if you intend to discuss the entire plot or significant portions of it. ~Edi

[SylasGaunt]

The tiny scope made it more and more ridiculous that I was killing such vast numbers of enemies. In DA1 at least you had the excuse of the darkspawn invasion, in DA2 it was pretty much just a Gotham city thing where every occupant of the city is a blood mage or a gangster ready to throw themselves into the Hawke meat grinder. Blood magic was supposed to be like this rare thing that was totally forbidden, something you had to make a deal with a demon to get. But every fucking mage in the universe is using it circa DA2, people are turning into abominations left, right and centre, and I think I personally killed about 4 dragons. That so much stuff went down in a single city over the course of 7 years is frankly absurd.

Uhm.. there's more reasons than just Varric's narration about why you get so many blood mages/abominations in Kirkwall.
Spoiler

Kirkwall is a thin spot in the Veil due to all the sacrificing and general suffering done by the Tevinter during their time there. Demons and other spirits find it relatively easy to get across. There's also a higher incidence of Blood Magic but that's likely got more to do with the Templar situation than anything else. As has been pointed out, it's a vicious cycle. The templars put more and more pressure on the mages using the justification of blood mages and abominations. The more the mages get squeezed the more of them that see blood magic as their only option of escape or way to fight back... which in turn causes the Templars to scream 'SEE! SEE! WE TOLD YOU!' and squeeze harder, and so on. Quite frankly even without all the other stuff that happened I couldn't see the situation in Kirkwall ending anything but badly, especially since, as pointed out , Blood Magic is both easier and more dangerous to perform there.

[SylasGaunt]

Still not as impressive as in the first game (where it wasn't as blatantly foreshadowed, and thus awesomer )

While true that it loses its shock value since it happened in the first game to.. Spoiler

That ogre he froze solid was quite impressive... that and the room full of dead abominations and demons shows that he can put the smackdown on the spirit world denizens to.

[Highlord Laan]

I actually sided with Merill and Anders pretty much all the way. Spoiler

Break the Chantry? Sign me the hell up.

And I play a Warrior. "Magic is a tool, like a sword" and all that.

[LadyTevar]

I have to say I am NOT helping Merrill with the mirror. Every word out of her mouth just made me less likely to do it. Spoiler

"but I can't talk to (the Keeper)... we have fights... she never listens.." My gods, is she a teenager wanting me to intercede with her parents?

"two tribe members were hurt (by the mirror), one went missing, the other was gonna die (she became the Hero)... but it's ok! I fixed it with Blood Magic!"
Are you Fuckin' NUTS?!?!?! We have seen *how* many blood mages thus far and seen how bad that turns out, but you think it works for you? Oh, yes, let's not forget I saw how that Pride Demon lured you into power so easily.
NO. No Mirror for YOU.

The Anders romance, on the other hand, turned into a romance-novel desperate kiss, that turned into a very romantic bedroom scene. Spoiler

I got hot and bothered, to Nit's amusement

[Vympel]

adam_grif's post becoming spoilerized was too late for me.

[Shinova]

Talking of character builds, blood mage + blood magic enhancing items + spirit healer = virtually infinite mana. It is so awesome. Even your heaviest spells take only 10 hp and with the passive spirit healer regen and graverobber, it's like free spell-spam day.

[HMS Sophia]

The wife played through as a mage, got with anders (mostly. never actually had sex with him ), and it was very cool

I'm now playing a male warrior. It's awesome, first time I've enjoyed playing as a warrior in a game in a long time... I just have one problem. I don't know who to love. TELL ME WHO TOO LOVE, PEOPLE!

[LadyTevar]

The wife played through as a mage, got with anders (mostly. never actually had sex with him ), and it was very cool

I'm now playing a male warrior. It's awesome, first time I've enjoyed playing as a warrior in a game in a long time... I just have one problem. I don't know who to love. TELL ME WHO TOO LOVE, PEOPLE!

Isabella is a slut, she'll sleep with anyone, as long as she's on top.
Anders and Elaine, you have to work at it. So far, Anders is worth it, while Elaine has her own quest for love that's far better to allow to play out.
Merril is shy, but she's so emogoth it's painful. Go kick a puppy, it's more rewarding.
Sebastian is as hard to romance as it is to make Morrigan like you in Origins. At least Morrigan will sleep with you; Sebastian's taken Vows.
Fenris, like Merril, is fuckin' emo and works best if you don't like mages either.
Verric you can't sleep with. A pity, it sounds like he'd be fun in bed.

[HMS Sophia]

Elaine

Elaine? what have I missed
Didn't get the fancy edition with the DLC, so no Sebastian... no real shame there though
It may have to turn into "Seduce Fenris to make the wife squirm"

[Imperial Overlord]

Elaine

Elaine? what have I missed
Didn't get the fancy edition with the DLC, so no Sebastian... no real shame there though
It may have to turn into "Seduce Fenris to make the wife squirm"

She probably means Aveline.

[HMS Sophia]

I didn't think you could get with Aveline. Can you?

[Joviwan]

Spoiler

No. The four romanceable NPC's are fenris, isabela, merril, and anders. You can technically romance the DLC guy, but he never puts out, and it's like half a romance anyway.

[Vympel]

Re: Aveline's companion quest, I thought it was fantastic how Kirkwall apparently has sexual harassment laws

[Darth Quorthon]

I was a bit late to the party for DA2, playing Rift instead (blah.)
I just finished the game the other day, here are my impressions:
Spoiler

I wasn't very intrigued by the romance options.
Isabela seemed faithless, she was just waiting for a ship to sail off on. I did, however, have Hawke have a one-night stand with her.
Merrill just seemed too timid, and the whole blood magic thing seemed to end badly for every other mage.
Anders is more or less possessed.
Fenris: no, just no.
For the most part I had Hawke be a "lay down the law" kind of guy, although I plan on going back a fooling around a bit with some saved games.
Not being able to use Bethany for 2/3 of the game was annoying, as I had become quite fond of her "blow the shit out of everything" abilities.
Varric was hands down my favorite character. Funny guy.
As to the end-game sequence:
I sided with the mages mainly because I found Meredith annoying, and well, Hawke's sister is mage. Anders' decision to blow up the Chantry earned him a death sentence.
I'm guessing Sebastian's decision to stay or leave depends on your decision on what to do with Anders.
Isabela, Varric, and Aveline seem to side with Hawke if their friendship with Hawke is high enough.
I had high friendship with Fenris and he sided with the Templars regardless.
I'm guessing Merrill and Anders (assuming you keep him around) will side with the mages.
I thought the ending was lame.
Actually, I was having fun playing through the final sequence until Orsino suddenly flipped out. Really, suddenly he needed blood magic and turned into the giant flesh beast even after we fought off several waves of Templars? And why couldn't he have helped me kill a few waves of Templars first before going hostile? To top it off, Meredith's madness being fueled (at least partly) by the lyrium idol was a major cop-out in my book. After fighting past waves of abominations, demons, and shades to get to the final battle, then with Orsino's sudden delving into blood-magic, I had some doubts as to whether siding with the mages was the "right" choice, but then suddenly it turns out that Meredith's going batshit was a product of some ancient evil artifact. Blah.
Overall I was pretty satisfied with the game, although I felt it didn't quite rise to the level of the first game.

P.S. sorry if this is thread necro.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Spoiler

Fenris initially sides with the Templars, but you can convince him to come back to the mage side

[Darth Quorthon]

Spoiler

Fenris initially sides with the Templars, but you can convince him to come back to the mage side

Spoiler

I see.
Honestly, I was glad he sided with the Templars, because I didn't like him. Killing him with the two-handed sword that I had originally intended as a gift for him only made it better.

[Joviwan]

Spoiler

The entire narrative arc of the game can be summarized as "Everyone, every one you meet, every single person in this game, is a fucking retard."

The endgame sequence wasn't some gritty choice between oppressing misunderstood mutants or taking down the establishment. There wasn't some heady and thought provoking debate on the goods and evils and pros and cons of all the parties involved.

It was Hawke methodically and dispassionately killing everyone because they were too stupid to live, and then leaving.

[Highlord Laan]

Spoiler

The entire narrative arc of the game can be summarized as "Everyone, every one you meet, every single person in this game, is a fucking retard."

The endgame sequence wasn't some gritty choice between oppressing misunderstood mutants or taking down the establishment. There wasn't some heady and thought provoking debate on the goods and evils and pros and cons of all the parties involved.

It was Hawke methodically and dispassionately killing everyone because they were too stupid to live, and then leaving.

Oh, not entirely true. You left out all the A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-AWESOME!!!!!!!!11111111oneoneone.

Button = AWESOME! How can anyone not love that?

Theres a reason I reinstalled Fallout 3 and put Gears of Dragon Duty: Gray Medal Ops on the shelf as a $70.00 paperweight.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I'm gonna go on record and say I loved the original DA:O's combat. Yeah, it was slow, but that's part of the reason I liked it. It felt like it had weight, momentum, and plenty of verisimilitude. Sword/shield in particular was great, and I installed a mod that makes every single kill result in a special kill animation, which makes it feel like Spartacus 300: Medieval, or something. Combined with the general aesthetic and art direction of the game, and I can play it just to watch my characters battle the enemy.

So a thousand fucking fucks to the design and art direction behind DA2. Why is this over-the-top, over-stylized shit so popular? What happened to giving your heroes some actual gravity? This shit is pervading Star Wars too (e.g., Force Unleashed 2), but I'm going to end this post before this rant gets out of control.

[Stofsk]

Man I only come here for the out-of-control rants people make which are hilarious.

BTW I'm with you on DA:O. Frankly I'm not going to buy DA2 until someone fucking mods it to acceptable standards. And even then, the story sounds fucking retarded. (or rather, the characters do - which is even worse. A lot of stupid stories can be saved if you fall in love with the characters, but the reverse is often not true)

[adam_grif]

What happened

Dragon Age: Origins - November 2009
Dragon Age 2 - March 2011

= 16 month dev cycle.

Oh, not entirely true. You left out all the A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-AWESOME!!!!!!!!11111111oneoneone.

[Vympel]

Well personally I enjoyed DA2, and after finishing it am playing it again (this time with a 2 hander warrior as opposed to sword and shield). The combat is more enjoyable than the original (i.e. its faster and makes the first seem like its standing still), the UI is better, and character development / leveling up is certainly superior. The writing is IMO about the same - DA2's plot is better purely for originality points (zomg, an RPG where you're not saving the entire world!) but its characters are weaker, whilst DA:O had a stock standard plot but more engaging characters.

Of course, with its short-ass development cycle the game was released buggy- the most famous example of that is the "game can't fucking properly determine when party member loyalty bonuses should be applied and taken away, which has the effect of applying permanent negative modifiers to stats like attack speed and damage resistance ... bug" which if left unfixed (if you're playing it on PC like a normal gamer who knows what's good for him, otherwise you're SOL until an official patch) can result in your character attacking in slow motion and having the damage resistance of a snail attacked by salt - I got fucked by this bug by the end of Act 2.

And of course, the resource reuse is the laziest thing seen since ME1, but frankly I find that minor.

Apparently, the big patch coming soon will have 100 fixes. Its clear that they gave this game very little if any serious playtesting - Merrill's companion quest in Act 3 is outright broken and only a complete fucking idiot would not notice that if the thing was actually playtested. Similarly, she was somehow of the view that we were in a romance when I never once went down that route.