SGU S2E14 "Hope" (Spoilers)

[TimothyC]

Gotta love Greer.

[Agent Fisher]

Oh god, the Theme to 2001 Space Odyssey and then Numa Numa song. ROFL


Edit: And yes, Greer, you continually show that you are one of the best, maybe even the best man on Destiny.

[TimothyC]

Where is the FRANdroid machine when you need it? Oh yeah on Atlantis.

I'm giving it a 4 because they didn't take the cheep route and kill Gin and Dr. Perry.

[Adrian McNair]

Well, I was hoping to get the ball rolling as is the routine. Darn. It would have been nice if the thread more information about this episode in the opening post than just a vague sentence (Who doesn't think Greer is awesome by this point?). I'll give my thoughts on this one later.

[Adrian McNair]

It would have been nice if the thread more information

EDIT: Had. That should have been "had more information."

Okay, that aside here are my thoughts for this week:

- I don't think anyone who's familiar with my opinions on Universe will be surprised when I say that I loved this episode. It was aptly yet ironically named (in light of Universe's current status). We have the inexplicable, though most welcome return of Ginn and Perry (I'm really happy about the former but also pleased with the return of the latter). If there's something that Eli and Rush needed right now it was this. And on a more practical level Ginn and Perry will be able to assist the crew. I'll freely admit that I don't care how much of a cop-out it is (they find a disused cloning facility in space or they encounter a race capable of creating new human bodies, etc) but I want them back.
- When even Chloe is somewhat likeable that's really saying something, isn't it?
- And that brings me to the other major strength of this installment. The surprising amount of humour. From Park's mention of "erectile dysfunction," Greer's antics, the Thus Spoke Zarathustra moment and Brody's musical faux-pas I was in stitches. You can't often say that there are many laugh out loud episodes in a series as grim as this but it was up there with Stargate's best comedy episodes in that respect.
- I think anyone who is still following this series can safely say that Greer is the fucking man. Where others hesitate or are indecisive, Greer acts. His determination to save Volker was heartwarming (especially the scene where he takes him to the garden). It's hilarious to think that people once thought he was going to be the Ford equivalent. How ironic that assumption turned out to be. Ford doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Greer. Any mention of him doesn't deserve to be in the same paragraph as Greer.
- And for the record this is the person who Telford was inhabiting during the transfer at the end. That must be the first cross-gender swap in Universe's run (I'm not forgetting that time Vala swapped with Daniel, of course).
- One note of interest for anyone who missed it. During Ginn's last bout of suffocation we can see a shadowy figure from her perspective (no doubt Simeon).
- It's a crying shame that there won't be at least another season. I think that if the writers were given a reprieve now then the story could be concluded in a satisfactory manner.
- At first I was kind of detached about Universe's cancellation but I think I hate Syfillis Syfy now (not that I ever had a high opinion of them to begin with). I hate how a network that's supposedly devoted to science fiction programming can cancel an actual sci-fi show but keep stupid shit like wrestling and ghost chasing on the air. I also hate the so-called Stargate "fans" (specifically the ones out there who could have swayed the ratings in a favourable direction) who abandoned this series because of their holier than thou preconceived notions about what a series should be. Seriously go fuck yourselves, you pathetic, deluded purist bastards. You thought Universe was a "betrayal" and "not worthy of the Stargate name." Well guess what, you're not going to get anything for years once this ends. You're going to have to find another series to lionise and then go ape-shit over years later when the spin-off comes out. Or you can just masturbate furiously over your pile of SG-1 and Atlantis DVDs. It's your call.

Five out of five from me this week. Kudos to Carl Binder and every actor involved for this one.

I'm stoked for next week.

Looks like those spoilers you read were accurate, JME2 (as was my theory about the Lucian Alliance's source of naquadria).

The Promo:



The Sneak Peek:

[JME2]

This is officially my favorite episode of Season 2 thus far. Great characterization and humor.

And it'll be really great next week to see Robert Picardo and David Hewlett as Woolsey and McKay one last time.

Well guess what, you're not going to get anything for years once this ends. You're going to have to find another series to lionise and then go ape-shit over years later when the spin-off comes out. Or you can just masturbate furiously over your pile of SG-1 and Atlantis DVDs. It's your call.

This episode is probably my main argument now against the idiots who have claimed it's too dark and there's no characterization. And it makes me even sadder than the show got axed. SG-1 and SGA were enjoyable in their own right, but this has gotten better and better. I'm really going to miss it.

And the irony, of course, is that even with SGU's cancellation, the die-hard SGA fanboys aren't getting their movie.

[JME2]

Regarding that preview -- you'd think Rodney would be a little more cautious in his conclusions given he once blew up 5/6 of a solar system.

[CaptJodan]

I thought it was kind of funny how TJ seemed to be very busy this episode, basically needing to be in two places at once for main characters (as opposed to trying to save lives of non-main characters), and being unable to. They really need to train someone to be a nurse or assistant in these instances.

I was very happy to see them once again mentioning the ancient devices for medical use. This is something Atlantis never, ever touched on short of a scanner or two. Again, the strength of SGU is in the fact that everything is older and less technologically advanced. It's hard to claim that Atlantis' medical tech isn't the same magic tech that we see in Goa'uld healing devices or drones or auto-ascending machines, and that kind of thing makes injuries less fatal, and kills drama. SGU didn't have to ignore the issue of medical tech.

Greer, as always, lives up to the "favorite character of this series". He definitely earns the William Adama Badass Award for Stargate. Jamil Smith deserves a lot of props for continuing to make this character compelling in just about every scene he's in. One minute he's dealing with something extremely serious, saving someone's life, the next he's acting as if he's in horrible pain to get a laugh. He seems to me to be the most human of characters on the show.

Ginn and Perry's return is a welcome one. I do have to wonder, though, if having the characters in the ship doesn't cause a problem with those two characters just basically telling them everything they need to know for a particular situation from the ship's perspective. I suppose the "out" in this is that the ship ultimately gets to choose whether or not it will allow help, but that implies more intelligence than the ship has demonstrated. Destiny HAS tended to give people these visions when they most needed a kick in the ass or some much needed help, but it hasn't given them everything on a silver platter. While I'm glad they didn't just off the two characters, and I knew that they would be using the chair the moment they were trying to figure a way to get the two of them out of Chloe, I'm not sure what their inclusion in the ship, and their ability to access all the ship's information will mean.

The episode even seemed to make me sympathetic to Chloe for once. I'd be interested to know why she feels so selfless lately, but even so, there's definitely been a lot of selflessness from her lately.

I was pleased to see Eli hold up to what he told Rush. I suspect it was hard for him, given all that had happened, not to keep making out with Ginn, especially since she was in a body that Eli already found attractive. But he stuck to his principles on that. I also liked the end how Ginn said just hearing him was enough, but then when she tried to touch him, found nothing to touch, and there was this silence between them that implied that maybe it wasn't enough.

If I were to place a Chuck's "Annoying Character" award for this episode, I'd have to give it to Scott. His motives made perfect sense, but if I were Elli, I'd get a little tired of him pulling me away from my girlfriend every time she showed up to bitch at me about the situation. Yes, I get it Scott. You're worried and you want Ginn and Perry out of your girlfriend. We're working on it. Given that your girlfriend is eventually going to win this battle of the personalities, why don't you let me have what little time I might have left with my girl instead of pulling me aside every fucking time she shows up to bitch.

The 2001 to Numa Numa scene had me in stitches. If that thing only includes Volker's music, I doubt he'll live that down.

Overall, a solid episode, and one of the best of the season.

[Themightytom]

Gotta love Greer.

Greer actually showed some chinks in the armor. When he was joking about the bone marrow draw, I was thinking "Dude WTF that's one of the most painful procedures to exist does he not know this?"
It appeared he did not. Greer agreed to do something without really thinking about it. That can be a heroic and noble trait but also one you can seriously pay a price for. I don't know if Greer feels pressure to be superman to make up for something, but my impression from his reaction to the draw was "This shit just got real"

The time he spent with Volker though was awesome. I want to watch that part more closely for clues as to how Greer's character was reacting, I suspect he somehow got to know Volker after he volunteered which would be an interesting approach The crew at large was endearingly supportive of what he was going through they really rallied around him right down to bringing the team of scientists down to the med lab to help TJ figure shit out.

Up to this point TJ has been kind of running things in the background, with an affiliation more with the military than the civilians, and it has been assumed she knew what she was doing in most cases. What I liked about her depiction here was the enormous personal courage reflected in how far she went to try to save her patient. She really could have said "he's fucked he's gonna die, i don't what any of this shit is, it's not worth the risk" etc etc, but she did NOT take the easy way out by any means.

I think the missing element in that plot line though was Col. Young. he really came off as an asshole when he was trying to comfort her. I mean, I'm sorry didn't you two get intimate at one point? nearly have a child? the best you can do is "I'm not gonna order you to, because I know you'll do it." I mean damn he seemed only passingly aware That She Was In The Middle Of Surgery???

Apparently Wray was taking a nap during this episode, she probably would have been helpful on BOTH plot lines as a trained counselor, probably especially interesting with regards to Greer given the last episode.

In the other plotline....a thousand fanfics are born, with Gin, Chloe and dr whomever occupying the same body, that shit was getting creepy as fuck with three guys circling around the one body. I don't see how the characters didn't get the "Chloe's consciousness sumberged" angle right off the bat, because that is what I assumed had happened. if Chloe had been able to actually make a connection, someone else should have been able to as well. What is difficult to remember is we can see the stoned character's faces, while the Destiny Crew, just see's Chloe's confused little mug the whole time. Maybe it was difficult for them to conceptualize that she was connected to nothing, either way, it's bullshit that this didn't happen when James was using the stone.


Now, a few questions remain here. Is that really Ginn that Eli saw? I don't ask this metaphysically or anything, but, she seemed somewhat appalled at the thought of becoming a computer program, yet suddenly she was fine with it, and everything Eli needed her to be to stay sane.

is Destiny fucking with him?

Likewise, the Doctor is everything Rush needs as well as a helpful EMH for TJ. This makes me a little suspicious. I wouldn't be surprised if it were later determined that these are psychological stability programs meant to keep the crew functional. Maybe Scott will get a priest, and Young can have the ghost of the guy he strangled.

[PREDATOR490]

5

Finally a decent episode.

'Waaah waaaah, this episode shows Destiny can be good, SEE, SEEE!'

Sorry, but fuck off with that play. Just because ONE episode is good does not suddenly vindicate the slew of bad ones. Voyager had good episodes too.
Even if every single episode is good from now on, dosent change the fact it is WAY too late in the game. Taking 2 YEARS to finally reach a point where you get a decent episode is insanity especially at the cost.

Greer - Good as always. I dont love him nearly as much as most folks do for the simple fact it seems like the series is trying to push it too much. Super painful operation - Ha Greer is so awesome he dosent flinch.

Chloe - Heh, I would have preferred her to get sucked into the Destiny computer for the simple fact she is a waste of space compared to Giin / Amanda. Yes, this helped her considerably towards being likeable but she is STILL largely useless and only becoming useful as a vessel for the plots to use her.

TJ - Excellent performance. No faults here.

Random - The humour was actually decent and the music skit actually made me laugh. Overall, pretty good.

Uploaded personalities - Ehhh, Rush figured out how to turn it OFF ?
Seemed like a scapegoat written to explain why he dosent see that guy anymore but I still find this situation uniquely interesting.

Eli - Pretty good performance, only thing I really noticed here was the reference to downloading personalities.
Seemed like a reference to the Asgard was made here when Eli shouldnt have any knowledge about the Asgard. Kinda shameful not to at least give a brief description about the Asgard.

As for being able to do it... even if that were true they are stuck on the ass end of the galaxy with no way to get TO that technology. Unless they can literally cart the entire ship back home Giin and Amanda are literally strapped to the ship. Additionally, the guest appearance from these things is going to be largely annoying.

Suddenly Perry can access all of Destiny's medical data... soooo.... when will we get Giin or Perry speaking for the actual ship as a living persona. I.E Andromeda style.
My guess: Never because they are guest cast members.
Result: They show up when its convienient to the plot, otherwise they sit and do fuck all rather than help the crew figure out Destiny and avoid having to 'translate' everything so much.


Next week:

Ugh... Rodney, Woolsey and even from that Promo I already see things being shit.

[NecronLord]

I would now dearly like to see the crew (or the ship) get home just to get that one bit of Stargate super-tech (be it asuran or asgard) to re-embody Ginn, Perry and the other guy.

[Adrian McNair]

5

Finally a decent episode.

'Waaah waaaah, this episode shows Destiny can be good, SEE, SEEE!'

Sorry, but fuck off with that play. Just because ONE episode is good does not suddenly vindicate the slew of bad ones. Voyager had good episodes too.
Even if every single episode is good from now on, dosent change the fact it is WAY too late in the game. Taking 2 YEARS to finally reach a point where you get a decent episode is insanity especially at the cost.

If that's addressed to me, then you clearly misinterpreted what I said. I wasn't referring to you when I made that post but all of the purists in the United States who could have influenced the outcome for the better but arrogantly chose not to. Even if they utterly hated it they could have increased the chances for an SGA What I wrote was not a "play" or an attempt at a guilt-trip, just my earnest opinion of people that I loathe. And I stand by it.

I've liked Universe from the beginning and this is coming from someone who's seen almost all (I still haven't viewed Thor's Chariot, Inquisition or Vegas yet) of SG-1 and Atlantis. I've never considered it to be the red-headed step-child of the Stargate franchise that a certain portion of the fandom does nor did I have any trouble enjoying the first season (what with great episodes like Time, Justice and Subversion). To be honest Universe's first season is, in my opinion, far better than Atlantis' shoddy, by the numbers, boring as fuck fifth season (which reached plot-hole overload at the end).

Next week:

Ugh... Rodney, Woolsey and even from that Promo I already see things being shit.

Geez, PREDATOR, only you would consider one of the most anticipated episodes of the season to be "shit". You seem to have endless reserves of pessimism when it comes to this series, always finding a way to accentuate the negative even when you're giving an episode a four out of five rating. I asked you (and others) once what steps you would take to improve the series and you merely trotted out the same laundry list of faults that you've posted before. Quite frankly it's baffling as to why you even bother with the series if you have so much scorn for it.

Gotta love Greer.

And I really have to go back to this again because it annoys me. If you're going to swoop in and start these threads from now on instead of me can you at least put some effort into the goddamn opening post? Why not wait until the episode's finished and give your full reaction instead?

[Agent Fisher]

Cause's it's an damn old tradition that NecronLord would start the thread, having ranking quotes that had something to do with stargate, and we'd all gather in and post as the episode went along, a running commentary if you will.

[NecronLord]

We're fighting about thread starting now are we?

Don't tempt me to resume my role.

[Lonestar]

Geez, PREDATOR, only you would consider one of the most anticipated episodes of the season to be "shit". You seem to have endless reserves of pessimism when it comes to this series, always finding a way to accentuate the negative even when you're giving an episode a four out of five rating. I asked you (and others) once what steps you would take to improve the series and you merely trotted out the same laundry list of faults that you've posted before. Quite frankly it's baffling as to why you even bother with the series if you have so much scorn for it.

Even better when he refers to the Drones from the mid-season cliffhanger as REPLICATORS REDUX. PREDATOR obviously doesn't like much outside of his comfort zone, or has much in the way of imagination.

[Themightytom]

We're fighting about thread starting now are we?

Don't tempt me to resume my role.

Resume Your Role.

[Adrian McNair]

We're fighting about thread starting now are we?

Don't tempt me to resume my role.

Resume Your Role.

I concur. Besides, I wouldn't mean seeing what poll options NecronLord comes up with next week.

[JME2]

We're fighting about thread starting now are we?

Don't tempt me to resume my role.

Resume Your Role.

I concur. Besides, I wouldn't mean seeing what poll options NecronLord comes up with next week.

Heh, yeah. Rodney's Greatest Hits...

[CaptJodan]

Don't tempt me to resume my role.

Promises promises. Just do it already.

[PREDATOR490]

Geez, PREDATOR, only you would consider one of the most anticipated episodes of the season to be "shit". You seem to have endless reserves of pessimism when it comes to this series, always finding a way to accentuate the negative even when you're giving an episode a four out of five rating. I asked you (and others) once what steps you would take to improve the series and you merely trotted out the same laundry list of faults that you've posted before. Quite frankly it's baffling as to why you even bother with the series if you have so much scorn for it.

Even better when he refers to the Drones from the mid-season cliffhanger as REPLICATORS REDUX. PREDATOR obviously doesn't like much outside of his comfort zone, or has much in the way of imagination.

Advanced civilisation creates a mechanical menace that goes wrong and becomes a threat. This is exactly how the Replicators came about repeatedly and now they come about with these drones. Going back to the crutch of faceless AI menace is distinctly unimaginative. Sure, they dont replicate... yet.

As for next week.

Destiny potentially gets a 'lifeline' - Either this ends tragically with it getting lost (AGAIN) or suddenly the lost in space angle with no backup gets dropped similar to Atlantis. Fromer is just getting insanely repetative and the latter is a convienient vessel to get an influx of fresh blood / equipment.
On the upside this episode MIGHT actually show whats going on in the Milky Way which is massively more interesting than watching Chloe continue to be useless or Rush be a continual dick to everyone.

Rodney & Eli - Eli is apparantly Wesley Crusher 2.0 being able to compete with folks that should have been trained for this stuff.

Daniel Jackson discovered how to dial the gates AND had something else to contribute from his professional career.
Eli discovered how to dial the Ninth Cheveron from a game AND had no professional career. Somehow this kid is now in the ballpark of Rodney and the entire SGC...
Even if he is rather bright, it is pushing things to the extreme to have Eli going this far this soon.

[Zac Naloen]

Eli solved an equation and suggested they try to dial the gate using the address as the ancients wrote it, he didn't figure out how to dial anything.

Everything Eli has done has basically been advanced maths and logic.

So it's established Eli has an understanding of advanced mathematical principles, and pretty much everything he has done has revolved around that. His lazyness held him back on earth, not his intelligence. His lazyness in part being heavily implied to being because of his reaction to his mum getting ill.

[hongi]

I wonder why Greer is so gungho about everything. It seems to me that he's a little suicidal. Or just doesn't care what happens to him. Does anyone else get that impression?

[CaptJodan]

Everything Eli has done has basically been advanced maths and logic.

Exactly. Eli isn't the super genius that knows everything about the Enterprise Destiny, and can solve any engineering or technical problem in addition to being the ship's pilot. Nor is he fucking Sam Carter or Rodney McKay, who are experts in everything from astrophysics to advanced engineering principles to climatologists and more. Eli is a more restrained character in terms of what he can and can't do than ANY of the super geniuses in Stargate so far.

But no, let's go back to super geniuses that can figure out alien magic tech in one episode, and build alien spaceships of doom in a few years, all while covering it up from the public*. That was so much more realistic.

*Before you claim that SGU does this too, SGU isn't actually about how they cover up, yet again, another attack on Earth or how they cover up seeing giant bugs on the windshield or any number of other events. It just takes the established idiocy of the cover up and continues it in the background. I'd be thrilled if SGU dealt with this, but SGU isn't really the right show/story for that to happen anyway, because it isn't (and shouldn't be) focused on Earth.

[JME2]

Before you claim that SGU does this too, SGU isn't actually about how they cover up, yet again, another attack on Earth or how they cover up seeing giant bugs on the windshield or any number of other events. It just takes the established idiocy of the cover up and continues it in the background. I'd be thrilled if SGU dealt with this, but SGU isn't really the right show/story for that to happen anyway, because it isn't (and shouldn't be) focused on Earth.

You forgot to add the deaths of two high-profile senators.

[Themightytom]

I wonder why Greer is so gungho about everything. It seems to me that he's a little suicidal. Or just doesn't care what happens to him. Does anyone else get that impression?

I think Grear didn't care what happened to him as a result of the traumas he suffered as a child with his dad. i interpret his depiction as a guy who has just started to realize change but is still accustomed to old habits. he volunteers for the dangerous operation because before it was more important to play soldier, be awesome and make sure everyone knew it. he was acting the prt of a cardboard cut out to keep people at arms length.

Now he's been around people who have gotten to know him well enough to see cracks in the armor, and the face behind the mask. more and more we are hearing people call him Ronald instead of Grear, and it's getting to him. The bone marrow scene was fantastically done as someone who went into a situation with bravado, even joking at first, and then suddenly realized... that shit hurt!

Taking bone marrow is famously one of the most agonizing experiences one can go through. he didn't get the memo.

I think he started to think about what he was doing and what he was doing it for. before the operation he told Volker, "It's nothing" and Volker was like "no, it's NOT nothing, it huge!" and Grear started to realize simultaneously what he was doing, and why it was important to do.

Everything Eli has done has basically been advanced maths and logic.

Exactly. Eli isn't the super genius that knows everything about the Enterprise Destiny, and can solve any engineering or technical problem in addition to being the ship's pilot. Nor is he fucking Sam Carter or Rodney McKay, who are experts in everything from astrophysics to advanced engineering principles to climatologists and more. Eli is a more restrained character in terms of what he can and can't do than ANY of the super geniuses in Stargate so far.

So... why the hell are you comparing him to Wesley Crusher? he's teh anti Wesley for the reasons you have mentioned. Do you feel Wesley's reputation wasn't deserved and he was just a golden child who was overrated?

But no, let's go back to super geniuses that can figure out alien magic tech in one episode, and build alien spaceships of doom in a few years, all while covering it up from the public*. That was so much more realistic.

Ok they built a SHITTY spaceship of doom, and it wasn't Alien. The super geniuses also weren't the ones doing any covering up.

The Prometheus broke down on it's first real mission and it was only the Asgard shields that let it do anything but get it's but kicked. Even then Alien Of The Week Kicked it's ass until they were saved by a nebula. The Daedalous, as the next evolution still isn't really the work of "super genius earth" it's MORE tinkering by the Asgard, in return for defeating the replicators, and then ultimately as part of a legacy...will... thing.

*Before you claim that SGU does this too, SGU isn't actually about how they cover up, yet again, another attack on Earth or how they cover up seeing giant bugs on the windshield or any number of other events.

Um What Show Was? SG-1 featured a few episodes with that as a plot but it wasn't about covering up attacks on Earth, it was about exploring through the gate. You're pissed that they bothered to address the world beyond the mountain or beneath the space battle??

It just takes the established idiocy of the cover up and continues it in the background. I'd be thrilled if SGU dealt with this, but SGU isn't really the right show/story for that to happen anyway, because it isn't (and shouldn't be) focused on Earth.

The cover up only REALLY became stupid after season 7 of SG-1. When we had no allies, no defenses and now idea what we were dealing with, sure, cover it up. What the hell is Joe The Plumber going to do. After season 7 though, we have a ship, we're building more, we've thwarted an attack we have allies, better get the public up to speed ASAP before the cats out of the bag on it's own.

neither SG-1 nor Atlantis was about the cover up though, both shows simply had it occurring in the background as does Universe.