Is this guy a terrorist? SEIU bigwig Steve Lerner

[Ritterin Sophia]

Have I misunderstood what the Golden Mean is?

No you are correct. What Blue is arguing for isn't a golden mean, what he's arguing for is that Chocula be given a modicum of respect (however little) and leeway simply for being one of the only voices of opposition left on the board since other people have. What Blue is ignoring of course is that regardless of the vast amounts of leeway given to those 'other debaters', those 'other debaters' do actually make meaningful contributions once in a blue moon.

[bobalot]

Is there any actual real evidence that this guy is a terrorist?

Please bear in mind, this is quite a serious allegation and therefore compelling evidence from reliable sources is required.

[aerius]

Is there any actual real evidence that this guy is a terrorist?

None. He's basically calling for a boycott of the banks. He wants a ton of people to stop paying their mortgages, this is entirely legal as a mortgage is just a contract for you to pay the bank money so that you'll own your home at some point. There is nothing which says a person must pay a mortgage, it's just that if you don't pay it the bank can foreclose and take away your home as per the contract. The actions being called for are all perfectly legal and above board.

[Jaepheth]

Reminds me of the few instances in school when some of the students would try to protest some policy of the teachers or administration reasoning that surely they wouldn't all be punished...

And then they'd all be shocked when they were all summarily punished.

The guy isn't a terrorist, he's an idiot.

[Simon_Jester]

The exact idea he's come up with is pretty idiotic, but the call for mass action isn't- in most democracies and most historical periods, things like general strikes and mass boycotts of offending corporations are a routine tool used by the citizenry for leverage against the seats of corporate power, and against government power when the government is in league with the corporatists.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that the US, which hasn't done anything of the sort to any significant degree in the past generation, has some of the weakest protections for worker and consumer rights in the Western world.

[bobalot]

Is it possible to change the retarded title of this thread since it is certain that this guy is not a fucking terrorist?

[Eulogy]

Reminds me of the few instances in school when some of the students would try to protest some policy of the teachers or administration reasoning that surely they wouldn't all be punished...

And then they'd all be shocked when they were all summarily punished.

The guy isn't a terrorist, he's an idiot.

Being a customer of a bank != being a student at a school. You have the choice of what bank you want to use, or use an alternative (such as a credit union). You can close your accounts in most cases and move your money elsewhere. A minor has no such freedom; he has to go to the school his parents or guardians put him in. He can't switch schools on his own, nor does he have the option of not going.

Besides, the school can operate just fine if it has to suspend or expell some troublemakers. But every customer that leaves is lost revenue to a bank, and customers can be a hell of a lot more organized in their response than students.

[Jaepheth]

Being a customer of a bank != being a student at a school. You have the choice of what bank you want to use, or use an alternative (such as a credit union). You can close your accounts in most cases and move your money elsewhere. A minor has no such freedom; he has to go to the school his parents or guardians put him in. He can't switch schools on his own, nor does he have the option of not going.

Besides, the school can operate just fine if it has to suspend or expell some troublemakers. But every customer that leaves is lost revenue to a bank, and customers can be a hell of a lot more organized in their response than students.

It's not a perfect analogy, but in both instances the protesters believe they have more leverage than they actually do.

He's not encouraging people to move their accounts to other banks; he's encouraging them to stop paying their mortgages, which will only result in lots of people losing their homes.

[Eulogy]

It's not a perfect analogy, but in both instances the protesters believe they have more leverage than they actually do.

He's not encouraging people to move their accounts to other banks; he's encouraging them to stop paying their mortgages, which will only result in lots of people losing their homes.

Credit unions, Renting. Friends. Bank customers do have more freedom and leverage than you realize.

[Jaepheth]

And if the plan was to use those alternatives then you'd be right. But if I'm reading correctly, the plan is to just default on the mortgages en masse. Which I maintain is idiotic.

What's the end game? What could you hope to accomplish by doing this? In every conceivable scenario the bank forecloses on all participants, who have now lost their home and associated equity. Even if the losses caused the bank to declare bankruptcy, those people still lose their homes.

It'd be like kicking a lion only to have it bite your leg off. Sure, if you can convince enough people to go kick the lion it'll eventually die, but at what cost? It's simply a bad plan.

[bobalot]

And if the plan was to use those alternatives then you'd be right. But if I'm reading correctly, the plan is to just default on the mortgages en masse. Which I maintain is idiotic.

What's the end game? What could you hope to accomplish by doing this? In every conceivable scenario the bank forecloses on all participants, who have now lost their home and associated equity. Even if the losses caused the bank to declare bankruptcy, those people still lose their homes.

It'd be like kicking a lion only to have it bite your leg off. Sure, if you can convince enough people to go kick the lion it'll eventually die, but at what cost? It's simply a bad plan.

Wasn't this exact tactic was used by farmers during the great depression?

[Simon_Jester]

It needs to be done with a certain amount of savvy- good planning, fallback ideas, widespread organization rather than an incoherent spatter of desperate men trying something risky. Lerner may have thought this through and just not been able to explain it all in a thirty second blurb, or he may not have thought this through.

Or, hell, he may have simply had other plans like guys carrying signs and just be trying to express the idea that yes, mass action is called for in this situation.

[Illuminatus Primus]

God Chocula is an illiterate moron. One wonders if he can breath without spitting Beck's cock out of his mouth. So I suppose strikes would be some form of evil terrorism, and workers' discussing strikes (heaven forbid...general strikes) would be terrorism! Just bring the Freikorps in, didn't you know, the Constitution obliges your organized support for the capital economy at every juncture!

People always ask fatuous questions about how McCarthyism occurred, and its right here. No big questions, just vague suppositions over undesirables that translate into stuff like the Smith Act.

[Ritterin Sophia]

So I suppose strikes would be some form of evil terrorism, and workers' discussing strikes (heaven forbid...general strikes) would be terrorism!

I believe that is the ultimate goal the 'conservatives' desire, yes.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Republicans probably, at this point, masturbate to old stories of Pinkertons shooting workers on the picket line. Actually there's no such thing as the Republican Party anymore, its an amalgation between least progressive features of the Birchers, Know-Nothings, Dixiecrats, and the Gilded Age Robber Barony.