Magog worldship in 40k

[FaxModem1]

The Magog worldship, from Andromeda, appears in the 40k galaxy. How does it fare with its trillions of Magog against the rest of the competing forces?

[Sarevok]

It kills everything ?

The standard Magog weapon fires blackholes which will go right through any ship or planet it hits. Magog themselves are almost untouchable due to standard Andromeda verse speed and ranges involved. Their ships can fight across interplanetary distances at near light speed. When using FTL Magog can cross the galaxy in hours. They are also backed up by the spirit of the abyss. So chances of Chaos affecting them is nill.

The Magog are an Outside Context Problem in 40K.

[Stravo]

You can look at the Magog as the poor man's Tyranids. A horde army with little in the way of the same kind of destructive weapon potential as the Tyranids. They don't have access to power weapons and the like in close combat and they aren't armored. They drop in on a secure Imperial world or one that knows they're coming and they will bleed badly trying to take it.

There are three powerful unknowns in this scenario.

One - the defenses of the Worldship are pretty nasty, the thing casually flings out small singularities which I imagine even Imperial Void shields would be hard pressed to deal with and the sheer size of the thing - a small stellar system in size with it's own sun - means it can pretty much dominate most casual fleet engagements. It would take a detemined Imperial assault to put a dent in the thing.

Two - The Abyss. I stopped watching Andromeda half way through season 2 so I have no idea what the extent of its powers are. It is hinted that it has god like powers but who knows? If anyone watched further into the series maybe they can chime in on this point because I don't think you can have the worldship without the Abyss. IIRC though the thing did reignite the sun of the worldship when Dylan tried to use a starkiller bomb on it.

Three - The Warp. I know this comes up in any 40k vs. discussion but it just has to because of how thoroughly intergrated the Warp is in everything 40k related. The worldship travels via slipstream which may or may not exist in 40k. The slipstream may be like the Eldar webway which will give them a great speed and manuevrability advantage in combat. But if it has to go into the Warp to travel...yikes. Demons will be munching on Magog all day and all night.

In short I think the worldship has a much better chance as a marauding force than an actual military threat. I think the best analogy to compare it to would be a pretty large Hive Fleet. It will run rampant in unprepared Imperial Space and then get the eventual smackdown by a conglomeration of Space Marines and Imperial Fleet.

On the ground the Magog are just outmatched. They are literally like an army of clawed gorillas, they displayed little use of ranged or energy weapons and little defensive abilities to withstand Imperial arms. Tactics were literally overrun through sheer numbers. They will be a threat to outlying worlds, Agriworlds and unprepared small Hives but a ForgeWorld or some Imperial center would eat them up for breakfast.

They have to stay in space where they have sheer size and power to contend with almost anything. In space they can roam around, raid a world for food and mates, return to space find another unprotected target rinse and repeat.

An interesting question would be to match them up against a more consolidated target like say what would happen if the worldship tried to eat Commoragh or an Eldar Craftworld?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Perhaps the Spirit of the Abyss could protect them from Chaos if they had to travel through the Warp? It is said IIRC to be a God, and a malevolent one at that.

Stravo, you compared them to Tyranids. Well, think of the Abyss as the Magog's version of the Shadow of the hive Mind or whatever the Tyranids use.

[lordofchange13]

Perhaps the Spirit of the Abyss could protect them from Chaos if they had to travel through the Warp? It is said IIRC to be a God, and a malevolent one at that.

The real question is if the chaos gods can over power it. I dought Khorne, Tzeench world like if there was a new being of evil blood shed to appose him, and Frak up all Tzeenchs uber complicated plans. What actually is the abyss other then a god of death? Does it only have power our universe? Is it limited to the belief of its followers, range of effect or it all powerful? I never got based the first season of Andromeda, and the wiki is not helpful.

[Thanas]

The real question is if the chaos gods can over power it. I dought Khorne, Tzeench world like if there was a new being of evil blood shed to appose him, and Frak up all Tzeenchs uber complicated plans. What actually is the abyss other then a god of death? Does it only have power our universe? Is it limited to the belief of its followers, range of effect or it all powerful? I never got based the first season of Andromeda, and the wiki is not helpful.

According to the original creator, it has potential universe-destroying powers at max potential.

As for what we can see in the series, it absorbs the energy of a supernova, though it greatly is weakened by it. Other than that, the main Magog weapons are PSPs, who seem to be able to destroy a world in a few volleys but can be intercepted by missiles (note that the smaller the gravity of the target, the less effect they seem to have - Andromeda for example survived a hit quite handily because she is using a lot of AG fields to keep mass down).

The Problem I see here is that very few of the mechanics of Andromeda superweapons like the PSPs or Nova bombs are actually explained. They might just as well be powered by magic.

[Sarevok]

You can look at the Magog as the poor man's Tyranids. A horde army with little in the way of the same kind of destructive weapon potential as the Tyranids. They don't have access to power weapons and the like in close combat and they aren't armored. They drop in on a secure Imperial world or one that knows they're coming and they will bleed badly trying to take it.

Magog don't bother with ground combat. If you are fighting Magog on the ground that means you have already lost. They only land to whet their appetite for flesh of sentient beings. Being a complete space based civilization they have no need to take or hold planets. All their industrial base and fleet infrastructure is in space and highly mobile.

The average Magog suck as a combatant no doubt. But that is not how they fight. They certainly did not beat back the High Guard by burying them under numbers. The Magog probably devastate a planet from space before landing on it to feast on the survivors. It is likely an Imperium world will not have many tanks or heavy weapons left intact when the Magog start arriving from the skies.

One - the defenses of the Worldship are pretty nasty, the thing casually flings out small singularities which I imagine even Imperial Void shields would be hard pressed to deal with and the sheer size of the thing - a small stellar system in size with it's own sun - means it can pretty much dominate most casual fleet engagements. It would take a detemined Imperial assault to put a dent in the thing.

It can contain a supernova going off inside it. Nothing short of Death Star superlaser level weapons is probably going to scratch it. Exotic weapons rather than raw firepower would be required to defeat the worldship.

Two - The Abyss. I stopped watching Andromeda half way through season 2 so I have no idea what the extent of its powers are. It is hinted that it has god like powers but who knows? If anyone watched further into the series maybe they can chime in on this point because I don't think you can have the worldship without the Abyss. IIRC though the thing did reignite the sun of the worldship when Dylan tried to use a starkiller bomb on it.

A while back Thanas posted some of the background material on Andromeda.

Going by memory the Abyss is the anthropomorphic representation of gravity. It's end goal is the Big Crunch where all matter in the universe collapses into a single point in space. The Abyss is opposed by entropy which causes the universe to expand. They have been waging this conflict through many countless iterations of the universe. Sometimes the Abyss wins and the universe collapses into a singularity, the other times it dies a slow heath death through entropy.

I will see if I can find the link again.


Basically the Abyss plays on a scale so large it makes affairs of the 40K galaxy look like an anthill compared to Mount Everest.

[Thanas]

They certainly did not beat back the High Guard by burying them under numbers. The Magog probably devastate a planet from space before landing on it to feast on the survivors. It is likely an Imperium world will not have many tanks or heavy weapons left intact when the Magog start arriving from the skies.

They did not beat the High Guard at all. They got their teeth kicked in and were forced to sign a peace treaty. Without the Nietzchean rebellion, the Magog most likely would not have played much of a role.

It can contain a supernova going off inside it. Nothing short of Death Star superlaser level weapons is probably going to scratch it. Exotic weapons rather than raw firepower would be required to defeat the worldship.

We do not know by what mechanism it did that. There is no reason to suspect it will handle every explosion that way.

A while back Thanas posted some of the background material on Andromeda.

Going by memory the Abyss is the anthropomorphic representation of gravity. It's end goal is the Big Crunch where all matter in the universe collapses into a single point in space. The Abyss is opposed by entropy which causes the universe to expand. They have been waging this conflict through many countless iterations of the universe. Sometimes the Abyss wins and the universe collapses into a singularity, the other times it dies a slow heath death through entropy.

.....I did not really take that meaning from it.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I think there is another thing to consider. IIRC, the Magog space combat (ignoring the Worlship) consists of swarming and boarding with Swarmships. Against 40K stuff that may not work, especially if they can't pass through void shields. (And even if they do, I would love to ssee a Magog boarding action on an Astartes Strike Cruiser).

So it's possible the only real space combat threat the Magog pose is with their Worldship, which can only be in one place at a time. Sure, it can overwhelm any single force, but the Imperium (or the Eldar, or those pesky Tau) can find some kind of solution.

Alternatively, they wait untilt he Worldship stumbles across a Necron Tomb World. Thatwould be an interesting match-up

[Black Admiral]

I think there is another thing to consider. IIRC, the Magog space combat (ignoring the Worlship) consists of swarming and boarding with Swarmships. Against 40K stuff that may not work, especially if they can't pass through void shields. (And even if they do, I would love to ssee a Magog boarding action on an Astartes Strike Cruiser).

If the internal defences of Strike Cruisers are anything like those of battlebarges, they'll include;
- Automated autocannon (poss. other weapons as well) turrets
- Pop-up barricades, about as tough as Terminator armour
- Access to Tarantula (2 x Assault Cannon) sentry guns
- And the main access-ways being sized so that both tanks and Venerable Brothers can be used to defend them
(ref. for all of above is Dark Creed)

[Sarevok]

They did not beat the High Guard at all. They got their teeth kicked in and were forced to sign a peace treaty. Without the Nietzchean rebellion, the Magog most likely would not have played much of a role.

Right I forgot about that. However they do seem to hold their own against a space faring civilization. The point I am making is that the Magog are not a classic Zerg or Tyranid like foe. They do not rely on raw numbers to inflict effective damage. As we saw in the Season 1 ending/Season 2 openers Magog are terrible soldiers. A handful of crew members were able to kill absurd numbers of them.

The Magog's real power is their spaceships. On the ground Magog are so inadequate against 40K level armies it is irrelevant. This fight will be decided in space.

We do not know by what mechanism it did that. There is no reason to suspect it will handle every explosion that way.

True. But on the other hand the worldship is huge. It is made up of several planets put together. Even if it was just regular rock you would still need...planetkillers... to kill planetsized target.

.....I did not really take that meaning from it.

Oh ok.

What I was trying to get at is that the Magog seem to have their own entity like Chaos in 40K. So they may have defense against being corrupted by Chaos.

[Thanas]

I think there is another thing to consider. IIRC, the Magog space combat (ignoring the Worlship) consists of swarming and boarding with Swarmships. Against 40K stuff that may not work, especially if they can't pass through void shields. (And even if they do, I would love to ssee a Magog boarding action on an Astartes Strike Cruiser).

So it's possible the only real space combat threat the Magog pose is with their Worldship, which can only be in one place at a time.

No, that only is employed against ships they want to conquer. They have equipped swarmships with PSPs and used them in space combat/against planets before. See All too human for that. Later on, they also have smaller mini-worldships but that is long after RHW's tenure, so it quite possibly should be considered non-canon.

Right I forgot about that. However they do seem to hold their own against a space faring civilization. The point I am making is that the Magog are not a classic Zerg or Tyranid like foe. They do not rely on raw numbers to inflict effective damage. As we saw in the Season 1 ending/Season 2 openers Magog are terrible soldiers. A handful of crew members were able to kill absurd numbers of them.

By "holding your own" I presume you mean "take one world, attack a few isolated science stations, then try to move up against a real defended world and get massacred by a single HG battlegroup"? They are not that good strategists or even tacticians. The only danger IMO there is here for WH40K is the PSPs and other WMDs they might or might not field. And the Abyss interfering.

[OmegaChief]

Oh ok.

What I was trying to get at is that the Magog seem to have their own entity like Chaos in 40K. So they may have defense against being corrupted by Chaos.

Doesn't grant immunity to warp corruption mind, just look at the Emperor and Humanity for an example. Even the Laughing God isn't 100% proof against Eldar Harlequins turning to Chaos.

And given the average intellegence and motviation of the average Magog, how long do you really think it would take for Khornite cults to spring up?

[Eternal_Freedom]

No, that only is employed against ships they want to conquer. They have equipped swarmships with PSPs and used them in space combat/against planets before. See All too human for that. Later on, they also have smaller mini-worldships but that is long after RHW's tenure, so it quite possibly should be considered non-canon.

Conceded, I never saw beyond late season 2/early season 3. I was going with what we saw in "It's hour come round at last" and it's second half.

[IvanTih]

On the other hand couldn't the Necron destroy the Worldship easily,after all C'tan were opening system killing black holes for fun.

[Stravo]

On the other hand couldn't the Necron destroy the Worldship easily,after all C'tan were opening system killing black holes for fun.

In the SM Codex fluff there was a section on something called the Necron World Engine which was like a mini death star that could lay waste to worlds that took an entire SM Chapter with it when the Imperium assaulted it. I imagine one of those would be a nasty surprise.

[Eternal_Freedom]

And then there are the C'Tan themselves. The Vid Dragon was said to be worshipped in a thousand galaxies. Bit bigger than the Commonwealth. I think they'd make things real nasty for those Magog.

[Thanas]

On the other hand couldn't the Necron destroy the Worldship easily,after all C'tan were opening system killing black holes for fun.

Possibly....however - the Magog's entire tech base and weaponry seems to revert around manipulating gravity fields. I mean, their smallest ships can destroy whole planets with a single salvo of what essentially are black holes.

[Sarevok]

On the other hand couldn't the Necron destroy the Worldship easily,after all C'tan were opening system killing black holes for fun.

Details please. And why don't they use this magic ability more often ?

[Cykeisme]

On the other hand couldn't the Necron destroy the Worldship easily,after all C'tan were opening system killing black holes for fun.

In the SM Codex fluff there was a section on something called the Necron World Engine which was like a mini death star that could lay waste to worlds that took an entire SM Chapter with it when the Imperium assaulted it. I imagine one of those would be a nasty surprise.

Not to split hairs, but the SM chapter deemed it so high a threat (the assembled Imperial Navy fleet couldn't stop it either), that they voluntarily crashed their entire fleet into it in a grand boarding action consisting of every single battle-brother, wreaked merry hell through the ship until they caused enough damage to its innards to destroy it (obviously taking themselves with it).

How would this work against the Magog worldship here?

[Eternal_Freedom]

The Magog might try the same borading action, only to find themselves being merrily slaughtered as they try to attack the Necron defenders.

[Thanas]

The Magog might try the same borading action, only to find themselves being merrily slaughtered as they try to attack the Necron defenders.

Sure, at which point they just open with PSPs.

It is not like they bring the Worldship alongside targets they want to board.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Is the PSP the only space weapon the Magog use besies boarding? If so it seems like a rather foolish al-or-nothing deal. We can either board your ship suffering the inevitable massive losses, or we can open fire and destroy you in short order.

I am also still wondering about the efects of PSP fire on void shields and other defenses. Obviously it rips through armour like there's no tomorrow but what would it do to shields?

[Thanas]

Is the PSP the only space weapon the Magog use besies boarding? If so it seems like a rather foolish al-or-nothing deal. We can either board your ship suffering the inevitable massive losses, or we can open fire and destroy you in short order.

Most of the weapons in the Andromedaverse are either high-powered WMDs or "relatively" low-powered missile weapons. It just is written like that, apparently the intent was to emulate today's difference between the nuclear bomb and standard weaponry.

I am also still wondering about the efects of PSP fire on void shields and other defenses. Obviously it rips through armour like there's no tomorrow but what would it do to shields?

That depends on how good the vod shields are at dealing with black holes.

[wautd]

Upon reading this tread, I find the concept of this worldship quite cool.
This series is rather obscure to me. Is it worth watching or is it rather "meh"?