Stargate Universe S2E15 "Seizure"

[Alyeska]

I felt really sorry for Rush. He lost a woman that he cared for very deeply. One of the few people he cared for remotely compared to his wife. Amanda was very dear to him. Getting Amanda back was something that meant a great deal to him. I can see why he was willing to take a risk with Amanda's idea. Amanda came back from the dead effectively. And then he spent some time without being able to touch her. Oh yes, his responses were totally in keeping with a normal human.

But that's not where I feel sorry for Rush. It was how Amanda programed the simulation. Rush very much loves Amanda. Cares for her very deeply. While Amanda might have claimed it was simple love she wanted, it was more than that. She defined love in a way that it simply ignored the feelings that Rush had. Rush was crying when he realized he was losing her. What Rush felt was very much love.

That's the part of the episode that hit me the most. On top of that James played a very nice background role this episode. Put McKay in his place and did a small but important part in the diplomacy. And of course seeing Eli and McKay argue was wonderful.

Greer had a few nice elements in the episode. He feels a need to prove himself a tough and capable individual. He cares for other people, but he also has to prove to himself. He is also very brittle. He was clearly having trouble handling his illness, but he seems to have accepted a need for help by he end of the episode.

[Lord MJ]

How would you feel if the episode went like this? They actually dialed the ninth chevron, but McCay's solution didn't work, Langara's core overloads and the planet is destroyed with the SG teams barely escaping.

It would definitely be an "Oh Fuck" moment. But I would definitely want to tune in to future episodes to see the fallout.

For a moment, I thought that was actually going to happen.

[Alyeska]

Would have been nice to see Jonas again, but it seems the writers wish to erase him from canon.

[JME2]

Some additional thoughts.

The SGC's behavior in this episode is a little disturbing. It's nothing new, since the Tok'ra and Asgard expressed concern about the Tau'ri's recklessness and maturity in earlier years and with good reason. But I'm a little unnerved that SGC was willing to risk an entire planetary population to reach Destiny.

Granted, Telford was the driving force behind the operation. Telford's interest in the ship is becoming more and more like an obsession -- not quite on the level of Rush's own obsession, but getting there. He clearly still feels that he's the natural leader of the expedition. I think he's also delusional about repairing the ship. Destiny is simply too far gone for any significant repairs to make a difference.

His influence and pushing might also explain why the SGC so readily accepted McKay's calculations. I was expecting Woolsey or the Ambassador to invoke the specter of Rodeny's failure with Project Arcturus. It's also interesting to see McKay's reaction to Telford's offer. He was clearly tempted, but the experience of being stranded from home in the Pegasus Galaxy made him see sense.

Woolsey's own behavior was interesting. The Woolsey of late SG-1 would have sided with Telford. But he's more seasoned and experienced now, more aware of the risks associated with Stargate operations. I'm glad that he was right about Langara.

Speaking of which, here's an interesting thought -- what if the Lucians never intended to use Langara?

We still don't know if the entire Alliance wants the ship or if Kiva's faction went rogue. The Lucians at large may not care about the ship, but may have seen an opportunity for a PR victory.

What if their goal was to manipulate the Tau'ri into endangering one of their allies? Might not the Tok'ra, the Jaffa, and others become more and more wary of their old allies?

[Lonestar]

By the by, with Earth guarenteeing the security of Langara that means they will likely have to keep a 304 deployed on a semi-permanent basis. That brings the number of known hulls available(assuming 1 in maintenance) to 2. For all of you "rar why isn't the SGC steamrolling the LA???" people.

[Chris OFarrell]

OKay, having watched the episode now, I have a few opinions on it.

Firstly, there were SO many opportunities to give nods to canon from SG1/SGA here, that they missed, which really annoyed me.

For example, McKays confident optimism just SCREAMED for a reference to the Arcturas disaster, with someone pointing out that this system was NOT uninhabited.
Still nothing about what Atlantis has been doing, despite two main characters from the show appearing.
Jonas of course remains the forgotten main cast member, the writers clearly under instruction to pretend he didn't exist...despite the stupidity of this.

Secondly, some of the characters were acting...weird.

The decision to risk screwing over one of the VERY few strong alliences Earth has in the Galaxy just to resupply Destiny? And byond that, the very real risk of actually BLOWING UP A PLANET FILLED WITH PEOPLE?
Seriously, whats with this? The idea that Jack O'Neill would authorize such a mission by force, with such sketchy intel, is just nuts, completly out of character for him.
It would have been much better if we had seen Daniel appear in the aftermath and utterly take it to Jack for betraying everything the SGC was supposed to stand for, how would HE have acted if in the second or third year of operations at the SGC, they had been taken over by some more advanced alien group who were happily willing to risk blowing up Earth by dialing the 9th Chevron saying that hey had no choice for the sake of a hundred people?

Honestly, it was really jarring to me, like something the rogue NID would do back in the Good ole days.

ANyway.

Telford has regressed horribly, although I do give him a pass until we find out what REALLY happened when they tried to dial home and what Rush REALLY did, I have to think he must have some other motivation...

At least James had her head on straight, showing the Langarans around and helping them to understand the situation first hand, and why Earth did what it did. It might have been the only thing that kept their allience intact, albeit damaged.

The Rush/Perry plot was at least interesting, albeit predictable in a lot of ways, but it worked well and was quite emotional.

And...anyone else think that the Langaran gate had WAY too many Glyphs for a MW Gate???

[Chris OFarrell]

By the by, with Earth guarenteeing the security of Langara that means they will likely have to keep a 304 deployed on a semi-permanent basis. That brings the number of known hulls available(assuming 1 in maintenance) to 2. For all of you "rar why isn't the SGC steamrolling the LA???" people.

Given production rates, they should have another 304 hull in service about now actually.

[Lonestar]

Given production rates, they should have another 304 hull in service about now actually.

Not to belabor the obvious, but people in these threads are also acting like there isn't a large scale war going on in the background because we can't see it. While I think it's likely there should be another 304 by now(for my money, a tentative French vessel since the production seems to be US-IOA-US-US-IOA-US, and the French are more likely than the British to come up with the monies to man and crew one).

This still doesn't give a great leap in power projection ability on behalf of the Tau'ri, especially if the 304s have to be utilized elsewhere like the Pegasus Galaxy(You still need to track Wraith activities) or worrying about a former Ori Prior that used his toilet-ship to carve out an empire of his own/what have you.

[Chris OFarrell]

You know, THAT would have been awesome.

A prior who after the Arc of Truth showed him Origin was a lie, said 'f*#k this s*#t', and went and took over a big chunk of the LA, planning to cave himself out a little empire. With his Mothership used to take down key leadership factions in the first few days, then assert his authority over their domains...

And he really REALLY hates Earth for screwing his entire life over.

[NecronLord]

Also, the Langaran guy who arrived at the end. It would have been... interesting... if that had been Jonas.

[Chris OFarrell]

Who is this Jonas you speak of?

But yes, it would have been really great. It would have made a speach to the SG people about taking a good hard look at what they are doing and where they are going far more powerful, given his former position...

[Lonestar]

You know, THAT would have been awesome.

A prior who after the Arc of Truth showed him Origin was a lie, said 'f*#k this s*#t', and went and took over a big chunk of the LA, planning to cave himself out a little empire. With his Mothership used to take down key leadership factions in the first few days, then assert his authority over their domains...

And he really REALLY hates Earth for screwing his entire life over.

Me and Shep have been kicking around ideas for a SG fanfic. One of the bad guys would be a Prior. The LA captured the French 304 "Off Screen" which is why they are starting to be such a problem. Sending the new USN 304 Flight IIa (Constellation) to the Pegasus galaxy to scavenge parts from the city-ship in "The Tower" to improve the sensors of Atlantis for the defense of Earth(even get parts for trying out another shot at the wormhole drive).

[Adrian McNair]

So I'm coming into this one much later than I usually would but I'll give my thoughts, nonetheless:

- Perhaps my expectations were too high but this episode was a disappointment in the crossover department (given all of the potential there was). McKay didn't have sufficient screen-time. What was there was nice but there still could have been more. A verbal sparring match between McKay and Rush would have been a major highlight and it's an unacceptable omission. There weren't even any allusions to the current status of Atlantis or Jonas Quinn. I wasn't expecting scenes set in Atlantis but there should have been at least some passing references. This Atlantis moratorium is ludicrous. Extinction isn't going to be made so why bother to continue avoiding the issue? I hate to sound like a dyed in the wool purist but The Pegasus Project and the two-parter dealing with the rogue Asgard covered this ground much more satisfactorily.
- The Langaran government's position was entirely understandable and respectable. They didn't betray Earth to the Lucian Alliance, despite numerous attempts at bribery. Their reservations about McKay's plan were perfectly reasonable given that their planet was the proposed testing ground for a potentially world-shattering experiment. The usage of naquadria planets as a Ninth Chevron activator has had a less than stellar track record to put it mildly. Though it's not made clear whether or not the Langarans were aware of it, there's also the fact that McKay once obliterated five-sixths of a star system trying to harness yet another dangerously unstable power source.
- On the opposite end of the spectrum there was the Rush/Perry storyline. I've got mixed feelings about this. On the one hand Robert Carlyle continues to be among the best actors in the ensemble and it was interesting seeing Rush experiencing a form of domestic bliss with Perry. On the other there was Perry's irrational behaviour to contend with (why did she think that inputting love as a parameter would work?) and the fact that it was a foregone conclusion that things would not end well. Eli's anger at the end might have been justified but it was hardly a picnic for Rush either. I wish the writers would resolve this plot instead of stringing us along in a depressing fashion. Why bring them back only to prevent them from interacting with anyone?
- There really wasn't a sense of accomplishment here unlike last week. It was pretty much the complete reverse. By the end of the episode the Earth/Langaran alliance has been strained and Perry and Ginn have been isolated (possibly indefinitely).
- No wonder Telford and company stood down. Who would want to fuck with Ambassador Ovirda Jack Bristow?


Three out of five from me this week.

[JME2]

Mallozzi's Blog offers an explanation for the lack of a Jonas reference:

...in fact I gave a note at the script stage that, at the very least, some mention should be made about the fact that Jonas Quinn had retired from public office. Don’t know what happened but it obviously didn’t make it onscreen.

So, either it's an accident or someone in the production wanted to continue erasing all traces of Jonas' existence.

The lack of Atlantis references really pissed me off. Even a throwaway line from Woolsey would have been nice. They could have tied the practicality of helping the Icarus survivors to the practicability of continuing the Pegasus Expedition.

The SGC was committed to the fight against the Wraith because it was the only way to study Atlantis. With Atlantis now on Earth, the IOA likely argued that there's no need to continue defending Pegasus.

The counter-argument, of course, is that the Wraith are still out there and still searching for Earth. There's nothing to prevent another attempted culling and they need to finish the job.

The IOA could argue in turn that the Lucians are a greater threat at the moment and so on.

[PREDATOR490]

The ending with Rush and Eli is just bullshit though.

Eli said he quarantined Giin and Perry. Although I find it hilarious they even had to do that.

Rush couldnt get out of the simulation = Rush gets out of the simulation
Uh ok... just dont go back into a simulation with stupid fucking rules and everything is fine.

There is no valid reason for them to be isolated for being 'dangerous' when the danger only occured because
A) Rush was a fucking moron
B) Perry was a fucking mroron

Dont see why Giin got locked away for something Perry did when she is the one that actually helped resolve the situation. However, I guess its more interesting to lock them away again back to guest star status. Dont want those icky little computer girls being walking repositories of Destiny's knowledge that can just TELL folk how to do things.

I would have had so much respect for this show and be intrigued if they tried to mimic the Avatar concept from Andromeda with Perry / Giin taking on a Science vs. Emotional element.

[JME2]

I would have had so much respect for this show and be intrigued if they tried to mimic the Avatar concept from Andromeda with Perry / Giin taking on a Science vs. Emotional element.

Funny enough, I thought SGA was going that route when Melia was introduced in "Rising": a holographic avatar of the city's systems. That it didn't happen was a big mistake, IMO.

It would have been nice to see it here; this seemed like a piss-poor attempt to bring Ginn and Perry back and then take them off the block.

[Alyeska]

The Jonas removal still pisses me off. His character WORKED. Watching the intro to season 7 with Jonas and Jackson working together? It was made of Awesome. Those two worked together so well. Jonas had already adapted to the team. It would have worked perfectly with the start of RDA's lower screen time that started in season 7. They could have had a 5 man SG Team (no reason they couldn't) and the team interactions would have been brilliant. Or they could have sent Jonas to Atlantis. Also a good idea. Of course none of this was done and they wrote him out of the series in almost the worst possible way.

[Kojiro]

One thing of note- doesn't entering or leaving FTL break the stones communications?

[hongi]

On the other there was Perry's irrational behaviour to contend with (why did she think that inputting love as a parameter would work?) and the fact that it was a foregone conclusion that things would not end well.

SG seems to love to pick on the geniuses. If you want to justify her irrationality, there's plenty of ways to do it. She's been disabled for years (?) so she probably hasn't had a relationship for that time beyond a crush on Rush (whee rhymes). Her craving for affection is only amplified after being strangled to death so naturally she'd be needy/clingy. I don't quite understand what she thought 'love' meant but then again, that might be due to her ignorance of what a relationship realistically entails. Anyway, she seemed like a potentially fragile person to me from the start.

[Joe Momma]

One thing of note- doesn't entering or leaving FTL break the stones communications?

It only interrupts for the brief moment of the transition time. So the kidnapped Langarans would have returned to their bodies when the Destiny dropped out of FTL, but only for a couple of seconds. Not enough to raise much of a warning, especially since it would have come by surprise and been over before they could react.

[JME2]

Speaking of which, here's an interesting thought -- what if the Lucians never intended to use Langara?

We still don't know if the entire Alliance wants the ship or if Kiva's faction went rogue. The Lucians at large may not care about the ship, but may have seen an opportunity for a PR victory.

What if their goal was to manipulate the Tau'ri into endangering one of their allies? Might not the Tok'ra, the Jaffa, and others become more and more wary of their old allies?

More thoughts on this.

Even if the Alliance considers Destiny a low priority, the Langara incident is still a win-win for them -- or as TV Tropes users would put it, a Xanatos Gambit.

If the SGC dials Destiny without blowing up Langara, they have a shot at another incursion attempt.

If the SGC dials Destiny and blows up Langara, then Earth's jeopardized its standing among its allies -- and in the middle of a war with the Lucians, too.

[Adrian McNair]

SG seems to love to pick on the geniuses. If you want to justify her irrationality, there's plenty of ways to do it. She's been disabled for years (?) so she probably hasn't had a relationship for that time beyond a crush on Rush (whee rhymes). Her craving for affection is only amplified after being strangled to death so naturally she'd be needy/clingy. I don't quite understand what she thought 'love' meant but then again, that might be due to her ignorance of what a relationship realistically entails. Anyway, she seemed like a potentially fragile person to me from the start.

That sounds plausible enough. But the whole situation points to another issue that has been brought up several times before in past threads. Why isn't the SGC using any of the advanced medical technologies that they've acquired? Anyone that's working for the program should have the best health benefits on the planet.

Perry might have been disabled since the age of nine but I doubt that couldn't have been rectified somehow. If Vala with a healing device, a To'kra symbiote or time in a sarcophagus don't work why not clone a new body and transfer her mind into it? The Trust were able to amass a legion of Ba'al clones so it stands to reason that the SGC should have been able to give Perry a fresh start at the very least. She never should have been disabled in the first place. Why hasn't Eli's mother been given a regular supply of Tretonin now that she's aware of what her son does? Why did the writers even bother to introduce these potential solutions if they aren't even going to be used?

Oh right, because then there wouldn't be any contrived plots at all. The SGC is squandering a veritable treasure trove of resources, hoarding them and only putting them to use during extreme emergencies (such as when a main character is at death's door or the Earth is in peril). It reminds me of the shabby writing that persists in both the DC and Marvel universes where they have all of these advanced technologies but don't bother to use them to benefit the world. I guess that's one of the reasons why I love Warren Ellis' Planetary so damn much. But I digress.

It would have ultimately been better for the series if public disclosure of the Stargate program had occurred in the pilot, being the framing device that sets everything else into motion. As it stands the credibility of the series falls apart when placed under greater scrutiny. It's unfair to place the blame solely on Universe, however. It's only inheriting the plot holes of its predecessors. Disclosure should have been taken care of in the aftermath of Anubis' assault on Earth.

[JME2]

One last thought on "Seizure".

I've been thinking. I can't help, but wonder if the lack of explicit SGA references (such as Project Arcturus) and the minial use of Woolsey and McKay was a "fuck you" to the SGA fans that trashed SGU: Season 1.

[Celador]

One last thought on "Seizure".

I've been thinking. I can't help, but wonder if the lack of explicit SGA references (such as Project Arcturus) and the minial use of Woolsey and McKay was a "fuck you" to the SGA fans that trashed SGU: Season 1.

I don't buy that the writers would do something like that, especially when they didn't know for sure the show wasn't getting a third season, whatever expectations they may have had to the contrary.

My guess would be that they didn't want to alienate new or casual viewers with lots of references to back-story. They also were holding out hope for the movie (which it was always dumb to write around, admittedly), so it's possible that they toned down the nods so that it didn't seem weird that McKay and Woolsey weren't mentioning anything that had happened since EATG.

McKay got his Atlantis cue, and Young explicitly mentioned Shepherd (a reference that would be totally baffling to anyone who hadn't seen Atlantis at all). I would have liked to have heard a mention of Jonas, too, but he's fallen so far down the memory hole as that he's effectively been retconned from existence.

[JME2]

You're absolutely. I just couldn't help, but wonder.