Random Stargate Universe FTL question

[sirocco]

Well I think it was just to add some steampunkish vibe to it and maybe explore the fact that Destiny was a really old ship.

Story wise, it was used in that episode where they had to go around an artificial planet. I think it's because hyperspeed ignores the stellar bodies quite easily while FTL drive needs to plot their course.

In both case, that looks like nBSG... and many other semi-hard scifi stories.

[PREDATOR490]

Most likely a silly attempt to try and make the Destiny seem older by giving it a drive system different from what has been established before. No characteristics have really been given about how fast or what the actual differences are. I doubt we will get them anyway.

Depending on how fast and linear the ship has traveled. Asgard engines might be able to reach the Destiny if they really wanted to push at it. Alternatively, have another bash at 'wormhole drive'

[Solauren]

I just view it as the drive type the Ancients were using pre Hyperdrive, that's all.

Maybe it 'Warps' space in some way....

[Ford Prefect]

From what I saw, it didn't seem to have any impact at all on the story, so I don't understand why they changed the name and made a point of it.

I imagine because they wanted to avoid situations where they solved episodes with Hyperspace.

[Batman]

I'd personally call it the producers going overboard on the 'let's make Destiny look old' angle again. That ship's interior looks like something out of a Fallout game.

[CaptJodan]

From a story's perspective, I can see how they might choose to do it to avoid questions like "Well, why can't they modify the drive to go faster" as they did several times in the other shows. Hyperspace is a known quantity, with plenty of data from both Earth's past experiences and from the Asgard core knowledge. Put hyperspace in there, and suddenly you have half the hyperspace experts on Earth coming up with ways to make the drive more efficient/faster or whatever.

Putting a different drive on the thing forces the main characters back to square one. Nearly everything is alien.

Of course, the whole premise of the drive, and many other elements, might have made more sense if Destiny had been, say, a Furling ship instead.

[Alyeska]

The Destiny is probably far enough away that even Asgard speed means it can't be reached, but there's still a lot of other magic tech that leaves you wondering... the asgard were gods, after all.

The Asgard Hyperdrive is fast. Did I say fast? I mean stupidly fast. As in some of the fastest shit we have ever seen.

We have seen some examples of what the Asgard are capable of. These range from being able to cross between galaxies in minutes, to being able to cross within hours.

A BC-304 using Asgard designed engines can normally cross the Pegasus/Milkyway distance in about 18 days. With a ZPM its reduced to 4. An Asgard ship using an Asgard drive and power source can do this in less than half a day.

ZPM upgraded BC-304 is 4.5 times faster than no ZPM. Using a conservative estimate of 6 hours for an Asgard to cross the same distance, an O'Neill class warship is 16 times faster than a ZPM upgraded BC-304.

The Observable Universe is approximately 93 billion light years (source Wikipedia).

Pegasus to Milkyway was I believe 3.5 million light years. Doing that in 6 hours equates to a speed of 14 million light years per day. 5.11 billion light years Per Year.

The Asgard could cross the observable universe in ~18.2 years. And remember, this is a conservative estimate. You want fast? In one example the Asgard managed to reach the Milkyway in a time of less than 15 minutes. Thats 24 times faster yet. 122.640 billion in a year, yeah, fast.

[Batman]

I don't see why. All the times they managed to make Goa'uld/Asgard/Ancient hyperdrives go way faster was with current technology (current for the Ancients meaning the latest examples of their tech base before they Ascended). Earlier (Destiny is supposed to be millions of years old) incarnations of Ancient hyperdrive may very well not take kindly to that kind of manipulation.

[Alyeska]

The Asgard appreciated technology, but appear to have dedicated their research to certain areas. They respected the Ancient knowledge and even admitted it was in totality more than the Asgard knew. I would say the Ancients were generalists. They liked to learn and tried to learn everything. The Asgard dedicated their research in more specialized branches. As a result in a relatively short time frame from when the Ancients met the Asgard, the Asgard technology surpassed the Ancients in several areas.

Faster FTL, more powerful weapons (though the defense satellite rocked). I wonder how Asgard power cores on their ships compare to ZPMs.

This level of advancement seems quite fast. Whats interesting is that the Asgard knew of the Ancients when they were in Pegasus, but the Ancients also knew the Knox. The Knox and Asgard had more to hold them to the Milkyway. Which indicates that while the Ancients lived in Pegasus, almost certainly some still resided in the Milkyway.

[adam_grif]

Their FTL and firepower focus is probably a direct result of their war with the replicators. They were fighting an enemy with essentially the same technological base that they had, so they had to find ways to outperform their own ships, which would lead to what we saw.

[Eternal_Freedom]

In "Small Victories" Thor's ship moves at stupidly astounding speed to rescue O'Neill and Teal'C. It went from the Ida galaxy (an IIRC unknown distance) in as little as a few minutes. That's just...absurd.

Crossing the Observable Universe in 18 years? Jesus Christ!

So an Asgard drive can cross 5 billion light years in a year. The Destiny was "several billion" LY from home. Sounds like less than 5. OK so it's a long trip but still! That's pretty awesome.

[CaptJodan]

I don't see why. All the times they managed to make Goa'uld/Asgard/Ancient hyperdrives go way faster was with current technology (current for the Ancients meaning the latest examples of their tech base before they Ascended). Earlier (Destiny is supposed to be millions of years old) incarnations of Ancient hyperdrive may very well not take kindly to that kind of manipulation.

I'm assuming this was a reply to me.

Hyperdrive has seen a wide range of speeds across the SG universe. Season 1 hyperdrive wasn't anywhere near what we see in later seasons, and progression and modification of hyperdrive seemed relatively quick. Destiny's drive doesn't seem any worse than season 1 or 2's Hataks.

From a storytelling perspective, there's really no reason to stick with hyperspace. If you want to say "rar, none of our current knowledge can make this drive go faster" in your story, coming up with a new drive solves that problem just as well if not better than trying to twist the audience around the idea that it's an old hyperdrive. You get the added bonus of having a new effect, as well (one I don't really like, to be honest, but at least it's different). It also forces your characters to start from square one. If it was hyperdrive, most of the basic principles would still likely be the same.

Moving on....

I'd consider myself something of a fanboy for the Asgard as well. Having said that, I think that besides obligations to defend Earth (and now) Langara, and other worlds with 304s from the LA, the real thing keeping Earth from sending a 304 with super duper hyperdrive is probably power related. We don't have a ton of information on Asgard power systems, but we do know that they eventually run out, just like ZPMs. It's possible we were seeing short burst speeds from the Asgard in those instances where they show up in minutes from another galaxy, not something necessarily sustainable. Given the distances involved, it might not even be possible to travel that long without refueling. Additionally, while the humans should have all the knowledge to build the advanced version of the Asgard drives, since literally nothing has come from the core yet, the best we canonly have for what Earth can do is the 304 with a ZPM. And I doubt they're handing those out when Atlantis needs them.

[Alyeska]

Thors Chariot from season 2 indicates a time of about 20 minutes. The Quantum Mirror episode from season 3 could be even shorter. On screen time was less than 5 minutes, but estimates based on events put it around 15.

15 minutes to go from Galaxy to Galaxy. That lets you cross the observable universe in less than a year. 18.2 years? Thats a conservative estimate using the slowest examples known for Asgard.

[NecronLord]

Wheee, Janus was working on a personal cloak! Pfft, big deal. The Asgard have give them to primitives to hide from wild cats. (say, speaking of invisibility and building gates, I wonder what ever happened to the Nox.)

Errr. Janus built a time drive and a galactic hyperspace disruptor. There's no evidence that I recall to suggest he invented the personal cloaking, so much as was working on a version, as the Ancients also had it (they left it on the Sodan planet) in the Milky Way.

Not that the Asgard aren't more advanced in several areas, but Janus' accomplishments are in areas we've not seen the Asgard attempt anything.

[PREDATOR490]

The recent episodes of SGU have made it abundantly clear the Destiny is of considerable importance with unusually stupid actions being taken to reach it.

If they are that vested in getting there, it seems a bit odd for them to chicken out on committing a ZPM powered ship to blast across the universe to reach the Destiny. They tried to do this with the Prometheus reaching Atlantis as well.

Multi-year rescue mission - Sure enough its a massive commitment but the irony is it just becomes 'Star Trek: (Insert Destiny reference) Manifest Destiny perhaps'

Now... watching a show that actually plays off TWO ships, one doing the exploration to catch the Destiny while the folks on Destiny itself trying to cope in the mean time. AND the tensions occuring on Earth as an intermission could a rather dynamic show.
As it is, the show focuses on a ship that is essentially worthless and falling apart for the vain reason its trying to find God ?

One would think the SGC has learnt it's lesson about blindly venturing forth into the universe to meet powerful beings. Sure, some of them have turned out to be good like the Asgard or the Tollan.
The other side of the spectrum is the Wraith, Goa'uld, Ori, Geni, Replicators, Asurans etc.

Going out to find 'GOD' seems like a REALLY bad idea. What if God turns out to be an unfriendly son-of-a-bitch or the reason the universe has a 'structure' is because the Replicator Reapers are waiting to cull the universe ?

[Themightytom]

As technologically advanced as the Asgard seemed to be, they never figured out all the healing and life extending measures that the ancients had, or for that matter the wraith. Todd was 10,000 years old for example, Anya was said to be able to live indefinitely.

[Alyeska]

Predator, you didn't read my entire post did you? It would take the fastest SGC ship more than a hundred years to do what the Asgard could do in 18. Earth ships are significantly slower. And they don't necessarily know where the Destiny is.

If they want to bring Destiny home, there is a possible easier solution. See how friendly the Ori now are. Ask them for assistance. They have access to great power. Gate over a few Priors to the Destiny. They can help with repairs. Then gate over pieces of a supergate to Destiny. Use the supergate to get home.

[PREDATOR490]

Predator, you didn't read my entire post did you? It would take the fastest SGC ship more than a hundred years to do what the Asgard could do in 18. Earth ships are significantly slower. And they don't necessarily know where the Destiny is.

If they want to bring Destiny home, there is a possible easier solution. See how friendly the Ori now are. Ask them for assistance. They have access to great power. Gate over a few Priors to the Destiny. They can help with repairs. Then gate over pieces of a supergate to Destiny. Use the supergate to get home.

Since that lovely little Asgard Core was supposed to have the entire legacy of the Asgard in it with the bells and whistles super-advanced-tech slapped on as well...

Seems rather weird the Asgard didnt include designs for the hyperdrive they have been using to cross distances in speeds far greater than anything save Wormhole drive. Not to mention the Asgard core supposedly has a holo-thor that explains how to do shit.

Q: Hey Thor, tell us how your ships move so fast
A: Well... (blah blah blah)
Q: Tell me the steps to do this
A: (Blah blah blah)

*Poof*
Holy shiet... we can produce Asgard power systems and fly at insane speeds.
The power systems alone could be enough to power a gate connection.

As for not knowing where the Destiny is... WE dont know where Destiny is.
Rush and Co should have been more than able to call up some sort of navigational map system that charts how far Destiny is away from the start point. They even showed something like that early on but it panned off screen for us.

As for the Ori - Thats a complete unknown.

The Priors had SOME powers but their power came from Ascended beings that souped them up. There is no way to know if building a super-gate is within their abilities without the Ori to tell them how or potentially provide direct divine assistance. That said, one would think the power source used to dial a big super-gate like that could equally be used to dial a smaller gate over a longer distance. Even if it requires a rather amusing proximity to a black hole AND the logistics of trying to send supplies via a space gate > Destiny connection.

Then again, SGU has made a rather blatant attempt to cut itself off from SG and isolate any mentions of whats going on to the point of insanity. Wouldnt expect any mention of the Ori to occur let alone provide anything other than a token attempt to write out this particular point.

[Eternal_Freedom]

IIRC "Unending" correctly, the Asgard most likely gave them an improved hyperdrive anyway, seeing as how it took them much less time to get back than the three weeks it took them to get there.

Incidentally, was that three weeks at ZPM-powered speeds or normal speeds?

[Alyeska]

Since that lovely little Asgard Core was supposed to have the entire legacy of the Asgard in it with the bells and whistles super-advanced-tech slapped on as well...

You can give me the schematics to build a F-22. Doesn't mean I can build one. Knowledge does not equate an ability to build it. What Earth has is already probably to the limit of their ability. And without the Asgard to build or supervise installation, Earth tech might even regress without the Asgard experience and industrial base.

[Alyeska]

IIRC "Unending" correctly, the Asgard most likely gave them an improved hyperdrive anyway, seeing as how it took them much less time to get back than the three weeks it took them to get there.

Incidentally, was that three weeks at ZPM-powered speeds or normal speeds?

4 days for ZPM power, 3 weeks without.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Wait a moment though. I know it takes 3 weeks without/4 days with a ZPM to reach Atlantis, but in Unending they went to Ida not Pegasus. They presumably would have been going max safe cruising as the Asgard said it was urgent. Soooo....was that three weeks at ZPM powered speeds to reach Ida, or did they choose to travel slower and take 3 weeks

[NecronLord]

The priors retain their telekinesis without ascended beings; but the really important thing is probably their healing abilities; even without the ressurection-staff, that would be helluva useful on Destiny.

Given that the Ori power source is probably inexhaustible (it even seems to be Arcturus related) it may be possible for an Ori ship to go out and rendezvous with Destiny. Ori ships can match speed with a ZPM-304 over long distance after all.

It'd be rather amusing to see the blue man group or the drones coming up against an organised SGC-Ori mission.

[PREDATOR490]

Somehow I suspect the Ori will have either:

A) Decided to forsake their technology and regress in repentence
B) Never be seen again like the Knox

There is no indication what actually happened to the supergate - It might have been destroyed by either side as a means to severe the link so the Ori might not even available now.

Would be more interesting to see the Ori-SGC encounter the folks that are responsible for making a planet. Alternatively just have a joint operation to build a super-ship to blitz a path to Destiny and then continue forward at faster speeds to wherever the thing is going. If the SGC is that keen on finding God... why skimp out on sending a run down piece of shit like the Destiny when you can slap together a brand new ship that dosent suffer from being millions of years old with systems you dont have a clue how to operate.

In theory Destiny is actually slower / on par with an X304 since it took a month to cross the void between galaxies as I recall. X304s are doing that in 3 weeks. ZPM powered ones are doing that in 4 days.
Asgard do it better
Not counting the obvious stopping and starting the Destiny frequently does to scout planets etc.

Between the Ori, Ancients and Asgard tech it really becomes increasingly silly for the SGC to have not produced better power systems. The Ori managed to train a medieval society to build ships that are equal to X304s. Somehow Earth is unable to replicate Ancient ZPMs or Asgard powersources despite having two MASSIVE respositories of knowledge.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I never got that either. Surely the first thing Rodney would have looked up in the Ancient database was "How to build a ZPM."

They must have had some way to build them, and it would make sense for it to either be on Atlantis, or listed somewhere. Atlantis after all left for Pegasus on her own, so she must have had a way to produce new ZPM's along the way.