Ivory Coast final strike

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Tribun
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Ivory Coast final strike

Post by Tribun »

After watching this bloodbath for weeks, the whole thing finally came to an end with the fucker Gbagbo being arrested like a common criminal. Looks like his future is now not very nice.

From the BBC
Ivorian leader Laurent Gbagbo has been detained in Abidjan and placed under UN police guard.

He was arrested as forces of the internationally-recognised successor Alassane Ouattara and French tanks advanced on his residence.

Mr Gbagbo had been refusing to cede power, saying he had won November's presidential election.

France said pro-Ouattara troops had detained him, but aides to Mr Gbagbo said it was French special forces.

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said the detention of Mr Gbagbo had brought to an end months of unnecessary conflict, and the UN would support the new government.

UN peacekeepers had accused pro-Gbagbo forces of endangering the civilian population and asked France, the former colonial power, to take out the defiant leader's heavy weapons.

There have been allegations of atrocities by both pro-Gbagbo and pro-Ouattara forces, and the UN has reports of more than 1,000 people being killed and at least 100,000 fleeing the country.

Ivory Coast's permanent representative to the UN, Youssoufou Bamba, said Mr Gbagbo would stand trial. In London, UK Foreign Secretary William Hague said that if charges were brought, Mr Gbagbo should be tried in an orderly manner.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in Washington that the arrest of Mr Gbagbo sent a signal to "dictators" that "they may not disregard the voice of their own people in free and fair elections".

Armoured column

UN peacekeeping chief Alain Le Roy said Mr Gbagbo and his wife Simone were now under UN police guard at the Golf Hotel, where Mr Ouattara has his headquarters.

His son Michel is reportedly also with the couple at the hotel.

Mr Gbagbo was shown on pro-Ouattara TV sitting in a room, looking dazed but apparently uninjured, wearing an open shirt and white vest.

Whether it was Mr Ouattara's forces or the French who captured him is still open to question, the BBC's Mark Doyle reports from Abidjan.

According to our correspondent's sources, it was the French army who were in the lead heading towards the residence of Mr Gbagbo on Monday with a heavily armoured column.

But France's ambassador to Ivory Cost, Jean-Marc Simon, told AFP news agency: "Laurent Gbagbo was arrested by the Republican Forces of Ivory Coast."

An unnamed French government source added: "Mr Gbagbo was arrested by Mr Ouattara's troops, that is true, but not by French special forces, who did not go into the enclosure of Mr Gbagbo's residence."

Eyewitnesses quoted by AFP said pro-Ouattara forces had entered the presidential compound while French and UN armoured vehicles stood on a road leading to the complex.

The allegation that French special forces had seized Mr Gbagbo initially came from Gbagbo aide Toussaint Alain.

Speaking to Reuters news agency from Paris, he said: "Gbagbo has been arrested by French special forces in his residence and has been handed over to the rebel leaders."

Mr Gbagbo's special adviser, Bernard Houdin, told French TV separately that he would never have been taken without French help.

Escalating conflict

Forces loyal to Mr Ouattara launched an offensive from their stronghold in the north at the end of March, after months of political deadlock during which Mr Gbagbo refused to recognise his rival's election victory.

As they closed in on Mr Gbagbo's power base in Abidjan, UN and French attack helicopters targeted heavy weapons being used by his forces.

Mr Ban said UN and French forces had acted strictly within the framework of a UN resolution aimed at protecting the civilian population.

He said he wanted to speak to "President Alassane Ouattara" as soon as possible.

"This is an end of a chapter that should never have been," he added. "We have to help them to restore stability, rule of law, and address all humanitarian and security issues."

Mr Le Roy told reporters after addressing the UN Security Council that the chief of Mr Gbagbo's forces had called the UN to say that he wanted to surrender weapons.

As news of Mr Gbagbo's arrest spread through Ivory Coast's second city Bouake, thousands of people flocked to the centre to celebrate, the BBC's John James reports from the scene.

Young men honked their motorbike horns and women danced up and down the boulevard waving branches and singing.

"But this doesn't mean that the war is over," said one person. "Peace will not come if all the militia have not been arrested."
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Re: Ivory Coast final strike

Post by Thanas »

The french show the world once more how an intervention is done. Both the US and the rest of the EU could learn a lot from this.
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Re: Ivory Coast final strike

Post by Tanasinn »

Yes, the French are a model country when it comes to intervening in Africa on behalf of the people.

Why, just look at the Central African Republic. Oh, wait.

Smarm aside, it's good to have this bastard out of power. Hopefully things will get better, but with Africa, only time will tell.
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Re: Ivory Coast final strike

Post by Rabid »

While I'd like to cheer for the fact that another fucker is going down, that Africans are standing up against tyranny, that we may be at the dawn of a new golden-age for the Côte-d'Ivoire, that this is another triumph for our armed force that goes to show their Professionalism and the quality of our Commandment, and all that wishful thinking I hear on television right now...

... I have to remind myself, facing the facts at hand, that there is very little hope of things really changing for the better for the "Ivoiriens" - Côte-d'Ivoire's inhabitants.


First, let's see who is the "new" player : Alassane Dramane Ouattara. His notable antecedent as the African Director of the FMI from 1984 to1988, which is advertised by the propaganda I'm hearing these days to show that he is an “Homme du Monde”, someone who understand the “problematics” of the modern world, lead me to believe that he is but a muppet at the service of the Françafrique, more than anything else.

Now, well, I won't “spit in the pottage”, the Françafrique has done wonderful things... for France. For Africa, on the other hand, it has merely served to further our grip on African's economy and politics, and as a result, in enforcing misery. What we see these day is the direct result of our, French, direct involvement in African politic since we officially gave those countries their Independence.


Which leads me to my second point :

What we see now is basically a repeat of what happened, what, ten years ago ? This time too we “gently” pushed, with the help of our heavy weapons, the previous holder of the presidency toward the exit door, when he became too... unmanageable. With whom was the precedent tenant of the throne replaced ? You guessed it, Gbagbo.

… Should I book my ticket to "Ouattara - 2021 / The Lynching Party" right now, or should I wait a little more ?...


What I fear, basically, is that nothing will change. At least, there will be no positive evolution, as the country, after so many years of civil war, is slowly tearing itself apart into many irreconcilable sides, perpetuating a cycle of violence and chaos ; all of this while/because/causing the country's infrastructure to slowly rot away, ruining all further attempts to redress its sinking economy. A downward spiral.


As long as we will allow these “politicians”, today at the head of those states (the African states, more or less in their globality), to be corrupt asshole sucking the blood of their own citizens, nothing positive will be even allowed to happen.
… And seeing the quality of our own politicians back home, I have almost no hope of seeing things changing for the best in my lifetime (and I'm 20 and I intend to live to see the end of this century, mind you - that really goes to show my optimism on the matter).


Tl;dr : Spin the revolving door : One asshole out, another asshole in. Go your way, there's nothing to see.
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Re: Ivory Coast final strike

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Thanas wrote:The french show the world once more how an intervention is done. Both the US and the rest of the EU could learn a lot from this.
What you mean lie blatantly for days about what you are doing? Such as claiming you flew only a recon mission when in fact you sent up repeated relays of helicopter gunshots to attack for hours? Ha. Pointing to France in Africa as a model is a joke.
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Re: Ivory Coast final strike

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Sea Skimmer wrote:
Thanas wrote:The french show the world once more how an intervention is done. Both the US and the rest of the EU could learn a lot from this.
What you mean lie blatantly for days about what you are doing? Such as claiming you flew only a recon mission when in fact you sent up repeated relays of helicopter gunshots to attack for hours? Ha. Pointing to France in Africa as a model is a joke.
Well... i think what he meant is that, at the whole "Deposing Dictators" business, our method has the benefit of being legal in the eyes of International Law, and less lethal as far as collateral damage is concerned, compared to the American Way at least (see : Irak). And also, that our objectives where accomplished without any major fuss, with "minimal" casualties (I don't know the numbers yet, but the propaganda here make it seems like they are almost negligible...). Plus, on the PR side of things, it seems to be almost a faultless performance.


I don't want to seem like a dirty chauvinist, but we French, compared to the Americans during their little adventure in Irak, have the advantage of knowing the area, its customs, and more generally where to strike, and how to strike, in order to accomplish our objectives. That's what more than a century of colonial presence, experience in counterinsurgency operations and a constant training effort on the field gives you, apparently. So we can't say that this Huge SuccessTM we are now talking about is a direct result of our Innate Superiority, compared to these Yankees, these "Amerloques"
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Re: Ivory Coast final strike

Post by Block »

Rabid wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:
Thanas wrote:The french show the world once more how an intervention is done. Both the US and the rest of the EU could learn a lot from this.
What you mean lie blatantly for days about what you are doing? Such as claiming you flew only a recon mission when in fact you sent up repeated relays of helicopter gunshots to attack for hours? Ha. Pointing to France in Africa as a model is a joke.
Well... i think what he meant is that, at the whole "Deposing Dictators" business, our method has the benefit of being legal in the eyes of International Law, and less lethal as far as collateral damage is concerned, compared to the American Way at least (see : Irak). And also, that our objectives where accomplished without any major fuss, with "minimal" casualties (I don't know the numbers yet, but the propaganda here make it seems like they are almost negligible...). Plus, on the PR side of things, it seems to be almost a faultless performance.


I don't want to seem like a dirty chauvinist, but we French, compared to the Americans during their little adventure in Irak, have the advantage of knowing the area, its customs, and more generally where to strike, and how to strike, in order to accomplish our objectives. That's what more than a century of colonial presence, experience in counterinsurgency operations and a constant training effort on the field gives you, apparently. So we can't say that this Huge SuccessTM we are now talking about is a direct result of our Innate Superiority, compared to these Yankees, these "Amerloques"
Umm America kicked the shit out of the Iraqi Army with minimal collateral damage in the intial stages, especially considering the size of them, armies that large take a LOT of killing. The problems came after, and were France remaining to occupy the Ivory Coast you might see the same thing, though they had the advantage of having much more local support than the US did, so possibly not. I'm also not sure it's a good thing to be crowing about over a century of brutal and excessive occupation of large swathes of Northern Africa as an example we should all follow to gain valuable experience.
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Re: Ivory Coast final strike

Post by Simon_Jester »

I don't think he is crowing; I think he's being ironic and you didn't notice.
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Re: Ivory Coast final strike

Post by Block »

Simon_Jester wrote:I don't think he is crowing; I think he's being ironic and you didn't notice.
Possible, but when paired with the first paragraph it seems unlikely.
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Re: Ivory Coast final strike

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Cynism for the first paragraph, sarscasm for the second.

Should I have raised the Irony Flag to make it clear ? Although, when you pair my second message with my first in this thread you could have guessed my position on the subject...
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Re: Ivory Coast final strike

Post by Thanas »

Rabid wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:
Thanas wrote:The french show the world once more how an intervention is done. Both the US and the rest of the EU could learn a lot from this.
What you mean lie blatantly for days about what you are doing? Such as claiming you flew only a recon mission when in fact you sent up repeated relays of helicopter gunshots to attack for hours? Ha. Pointing to France in Africa as a model is a joke.
Well... i think what he meant is that, at the whole "Deposing Dictators" business, our method has the benefit of being legal in the eyes of International Law, and less lethal as far as collateral damage is concerned, compared to the American Way at least (see : Irak). And also, that our objectives where accomplished without any major fuss, with "minimal" casualties (I don't know the numbers yet, but the propaganda here make it seems like they are almost negligible...). Plus, on the PR side of things, it seems to be almost a faultless performance.

Indeed, that was my meaning.
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Re: Ivory Coast final strike

Post by iborg »

And now with Ivory Coast solved, the 1500 men of Force Licorne will be available for Libya... :wink:
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Re: Ivory Coast final strike

Post by Rabid »

iborg wrote:And now with Ivory Coast solved, the 1500 men of Force Licorne will be available for Libya... :wink:
[ignore the irony]

Not before the UN officially say that the mission is over. And besides, I believe we have various military agreements with this country : I don't know the specifics, but it wouldn't surprise me that something like 500 men and women would be required to stay, whatever happen (as prepositionned forces and to maintain our local military bases, at least).

Plus, about Lybia, I think they said that whatever happen, they don't want to set even one foot on Lybian soil (officially, at least). A part of me wonder how they will deliver arms to the rebels, if they intend to do so...
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Re: Ivory Coast final strike

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How to deliver weapons is the least possible concern, the rebels hold a half dozen major airfields and three major ports though one is under attack daily. Dock a damn ship and unload 5000 tons of rockets and machine guns onto the pier.
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Re: Ivory Coast final strike

Post by Rabid »

Legally and diplomatically speaking, I mean. I have no doubt the physical side of things will be pretty trivial.

It would be... counter-productive, to say the least, to deliver thousands of tons of weapons and ammunitions to the Libyan rebels, only to discover that by doing so without the explicit approval of the UN has resulted in a bunch of very angry Not-So-Democratic-Leaders all around the world, undermining future attempts to negotiate with them on various issues, like, say, "Democracy" and "Human Rights".

That'd be sad, isn't it ?
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