Julia the elder

[harbringer]

I don't as a rule post here but I was reading about Julia the elder (Augustine/Octavian's daughter) and realised that apart from being dead for a while she could have been stripped straight from "jersy shore" (and no if I got the name wrong - I am not a fan of the show it was just the first to come to mind) and as such is she a person who would have been able to fit into the modern world? well obviously she speaks Latin and not English but you get the idea. It was just she struck me as someone I could really relate to... though I'm not sure what that says about me.

In any case really hoping I didn't just make a total fool of myself

[Thanas]

All the sources detailing her live are very biased, so it is very hard to find out if she was indeed licentious and a series adulteress, or whether she was merely just one of many women who were described unflatteringly in an attempt to slander their husbands/parents/alleged lovers by association.

[TC Pilot]

I read a biography of Augustus a few years back (Augustus: The Life of Rome's First Emperor by Anthony Everitt, a nice book if a bit simple) that speculated that Julia had republican sentiments. While I'm not in a position to vouch for any particular theory, I personally find that more convincing than her being a serial-adulteress

[Thanas]

I read a biography of Augustus a few years back (Augustus: The Life of Rome's First Emperor by Anthony Everitt, a nice book if a bit simple) that speculated that Julia had republican sentiments. While I'm not in a position to vouch for any particular theory, I personally find that more convincing than her being a serial-adulteress

Anthony Everitt is neither an ancient historian nor a classicist. His books are widely derided as being inaccurate and not recommendable in the historical circles. I would not trust any speculation of his unless he can source it convincingly.

EDIT: Seriously, his books were reviewed in the harshest manner I have read for a long time. One review flat out said "The only positive about [his book about Cicero] is that it is short and easy to read."

[TC Pilot]

Anthony Everitt is neither an ancient historian nor a classicist. His books are widely derided as being inaccurate and not recommendable in the historical circles. I would not trust any speculation of his unless he can source it convincingly.

I'm not particularly surprised by that, given how the content of his work struck me as rather simple. Sadly my range of reading material on Antiquity has rather markedly narrowed recently, so I take what I can get.

That said, it would seem that I misremembered. He still asserts Julia's adultery, but adds that there's "probably a political dimension" involved, in that several of the men she was allegedly with were from old republican families, some quote from Tacitus that I can't remember, and some (admittedly) tenuous linkage to venerating a statue of Marsyas, apparently in opposition to Apollo, and by extension, Augustus.

And no, he doesn't source it very convincingly. Glancing through the text, it doesn't seem like he bothered with footnotes at all.

Annoyingly, the key page of the matter is cut out of GoogleBooks. If you're interested, it starts on p. 287 here.

[harbringer]

Well I agree her conduct was almost certainly exaggerated after all I really can't see her as a prostitute - she after all had plenty of money to draw on. I still feel that she was strong willed and due to her father perhaps more powerful than the average woman at the time (yes I am referring to the quote about troublesome women her father apparently made). I just felt that in a time when most women were desperately trying to get social standing through marriage (well they still do to an extent) she seemed to be a bit of a rebel, maybe because her father obviously didn't trust her to make decisions as he didn't emancipate her even when married. She even refused point blank to marry Tiberius a decision that may have cost her her life.

[Thanas]

Well I agree her conduct was almost certainly exaggerated after all I really can't see her as a prostitute - she after all had plenty of money to draw on. I still feel that she was strong willed and due to her father perhaps more powerful than the average woman at the time (yes I am referring to the quote about troublesome women her father apparently made). I just felt that in a time when most women were desperately trying to get social standing through marriage
(well they still do to an extent) she seemed to be a bit of a rebel, maybe because her father obviously didn't trust her to make decisions as he didn't emancipate her even when married.

Meh. That does not indicate anything at all, considering the vast majority did not get emancipated back then.

[harbringer]

Thank you Thanas I actually did think it happened with marriage well learn something new every day... I have been frustrated finding information I'm slowly getting through E.Gibbons decline and fall and some other books but I obviously still have a lot to learn.

I hope you have a good day.

[Thanas]

If you want to read a good book about the age of Augustus, I would suggest "The Age of Augustus", by Werner Eck. Eck is one of the best, if not the best current scholar on Augustus and his knowledge of the senate families and their careers is unmatched. It is a book written by a scholar for scholars, but it still is a good read and you are guaranteed to learn a lot.

[harbringer]

Thank you I will try to find it ... I will ring round the shops on Monday. Thank you for all your help.