Obama Releases long form birth certificate

[erik_t]

I don't await eleventh-figure accuracy regarding special relativity, because I accept that the likelihood that tenth-decimal is very very likely within tolerances. Anybody who wasn't sure before but is sure now is... they're, at best, wearing a big pair of blinders. That's the most charitable language I can imagine.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Chris Core(conservative news commentator on Federal news Radio here in the DC area) said that it was a really stupid thing to release the Birth Certificate, precisely because of mahy of the other reasons people here are giving(it lends credibility to the issue, people will say "why didn't he do this earlier", and true believers will call it a fake anyway).

I would have insisted it not be released, myself.

Personally, I suspect rather that the whole point of the affair is to prolong it further and make the Republicans look stupid.

[Count Chocula]

@ dalton: hey shitfart, what the fuck difference does it make WHY Big Barry O spent the dough? Maybe most of the shit was frivolous; ask Palin how much she spent on frivolous Dem lawsuits. Unlike Palin, Big Barry O can keep on saying "fuck you!" And he has no fucking limits on his legal expenses.

The point remains that Big Hair New Yoakah made BBO whip out the long one. The Messiah caved to a "reality" show mogul. It's almost as embarrassing as it would be if Big O had gone on Oprah (which he has), told her what a tough childhood he had (which he did), then performed a Billy Clinton lip-bite-eyes-tearing routine for effect would have been. I find it disgraceful that the C-in-C, the man with his fingah on the fusion triggah, felt he had to respond to a hack RE developer overly-coiffured entertainer after 2-3 years of middle fingers to everyone else.

So do some Charles Krauthammer or Michael Moore genius rebuttal of my take, or piss off.

[Count Chocula]

Serafina: I'm not sure of all the "why"s Obama & Co. kept fighting against LF disclosure; the fact remains that he, for whatever reasons, DID. Maybe it was exasperation over all the ado about a picayune issue, but if so, it wasn't handled with the adroitness expected of a POTUS. Caving to Trump just makes Trump look good.

[Big Phil]

@ dalton: hey shitfart, what the fuck difference does it make WHY Big Barry O spent the dough? Maybe most of the shit was frivolous; ask Palin how much she spent on frivolous Dem lawsuits. Unlike Palin, Big Barry O can keep on saying "fuck you!" And he has no fucking limits on his legal expenses.

The point remains that Big Hair New Yoakah made BBO whip out the long one. The Messiah caved to a "reality" show mogul. It's almost as embarrassing as it would be if Big O had gone on Oprah (which he has), told her what a tough childhood he had (which he did), then performed a Billy Clinton lip-bite-eyes-tearing routine for effect would have been. I find it disgraceful that the C-in-C, the man with his fingah on the fusion triggah, felt he had to respond to a hack RE developer overly-coiffured entertainer after 2-3 years of middle fingers to everyone else.

So do some Charles Krauthammer or Michael Moore genius rebuttal of my take, or piss off.

Are you trying to sound like an ignorant fuckwad?

[Count Chocula]

Way to address my argument, Sanchez! In your opinion, who came out ahead: Trump or Obama?

[Superboy]

I don't think Obama cares too much about how you view an Obama-verse-Trump contest. He decided to release the long form because the issue had become big in the news again and it was in his best interest to release it. You think he should have refused to do something that was now in his best interest just because he didn't want Trump to be the reason for it? Trump came out looking like an idiot with egg on his face after all of his birther shit, and now he just looks even more pompous and childlike with his "proud of making the president do something retarded" comments.

As to whether or not this release will change anybodies minds, I can say for certain that it already has. People who are into politics and follow the talking points won't be swayed by this if they already thought the short form wasn't enough, but there are a lot of people who don't follow political news or research this kind of thing and only heard a few buzzwords. I know people who knew nothing more than that there was "doubt" about whether or not he was born in America and that he refused to release his birth certificate (many had not heard that he released a short form, let alone that it was legally the same thing). Him releasing this long form has made headlines that these people will probably hear about, killing the uninformed doubt that they had. It will also put an end to the biggest and most convincing (to the uninformed) talking point that birthers used.

[Count Chocula]

Superboy: fair enough. Trump played to the ignoramuses, some of whom seem to be your acquaintances. This is NOT a slur against you! If your acquaintances are uninformed and won't get informed until something is shoved down their pie-holes, well that's the way of most of the voting world.

Personally, I think Obama just threw away his second term. By releasing his long form now, he will inevitably get the "hmm, why didn't he just do this two years ago?" reaction, and its associated skepticism towards everything he says, from the not-so-news following folks. My guess is they'll also think "Damn! Trump called him out and Trump has so much juice that POTUS complied!" NOT good for Obama, not that I'm crying into my beer over that.

I see Trump as our Perot; a waffling, flamboyant, divisive personality who's trailing his skirt to see who woos him. The media weren't saying shit about the birthers other than subtle eyerolls until The Donald stuck in his oar. Now, Don has the spotlight. You may well be right that it killed the birthers' talking point, but it also showed that BO can be rattled into doing something that, until now, he hasn't done. He's also demonstrated, for all of his opposition, just how strongly influenced he is by "public opinion" and what the press writes.

[Superboy]

I'm not sure anyone but the far-right will see it that way. Most will see this as Obama laying the smack down on the birther bullshit and making Trump in particular look incredibly foolish. All of the stuff Trump has been saying about having people in Hawaii finding "shocking" evidence that Obama wasn't born there...that's all revealed to be bullshit. It shows Trump was either flat out making shit up or that he gets information from people who make shit up. This took the legs out from under Trumps campaign; it was his biggest talking point and now it's gone, leaving him looking stupid and dishonest.

Trump may be just a "reality show mogul", but there's no denying that he gets enough air time to draw some public attention to any issue he wants. He chose to use that power to draw attention to the birther shit, and Obama squarely shut it down the minute it became worthwhile for him to do so. Is it a shot against Obama that Trump had the ability to draw attention to bullshit lies? I think it's a pretty big stretch to say Trumps media attention is somehow a failing of Obama.

[Serafina]

Serafina: I'm not sure of all the "why"s Obama & Co. kept fighting against LF disclosure; the fact remains that he, for whatever reasons, DID. Maybe it was exasperation over all the ado about a picayune issue, but if so, it wasn't handled with the adroitness expected of a POTUS. Caving to Trump just makes Trump look good.

Again:
Do you have ANY evidence that Obama actively fought the release of the long-form birth certificate? Instead of, you know, the stated policy of not releasing long-forms, which i explained in detail, being responsible for it not being released?

You also COMPLETELY ignored my point that the long-form doesn't contain any relevant information that it not contained in the short-form.

Again, show actual EVIDENCE.

@ dalton: hey shitfart, what the fuck difference does it make WHY Big Barry O spent the dough? Maybe most of the shit was frivolous; ask Palin how much she spent on frivolous Dem lawsuits. Unlike Palin, Big Barry O can keep on saying "fuck you!" And he has no fucking limits on his legal expenses.

Okay, following scenario:
You are holding a public office of some sort. Someone wants to impeach and jail you for completely fraudulent reasons. Why should it be immoral to defend yourself against false charges?
Oh, wait, you're thinking that the charges against Palin about abusing her power are equal in validity when compared to the charges against Obama

But why should you have to bother with evidence or logic, when you can just throw around made-up stuff instead?

[bobalot]

Actually, it served a useful purpose. It indicated to the rest of us the fucking imbeciles who thought releasing the long form of the document was a reasonable demand.

Check your sarcasm-meter, dickface. I put reasonable in quotes for a reason. Now brush up on your reading and go jam a screwdriver in your ear. Hoping an issue is settled by the release of new/better evidence doesn't make someone an imbecile, it makes them an optimist.

Eat shit, dumbarse.

1) There is already undeniable proof that would stand in a court of law that Obama is a American citizen. On top of that there is substantive corroborative evidence (such as a newspaper article at the time with his birth listed).

2) Legions of raving lunatics/retards ignore all that and concoct conspiracy theories to support their moronic claims.

3) To actually suggest that these morons would actually be swayed by "new evidence" despite the fact there is already undeniable rock solid proof already puts you on the naively stupid end of the spectrum.

4) What pushes it over the edge and into being an outright imbecile, your argument of "Hey Obama, I know this is bending over backwards and never would have been asked of a white president, but... why don't you give in into these moron's unreasonable and unprecedented demands? Just to show them that they are wrong?" actually helped lend credence to their moronic arguments.

5) In fact, your exact argument was used by closet birthers afraid of outing themselves and facing ridicule (below)

"Um...I'm pretty sure Obama is a citizen...but why doesn't he release the long form ... just to show them they are wrong...does he have something to hide?" <--- These morons always conveniently fail to mention that this demand is not required to prove anything as it has already been comprehensively proven, is an unprecedented demand and completely unreasonable.

[bobalot]

I'm just going through Count Chocula's derailment (and entry into the HoS) in motion.

Dalton argues against Count Chocula's incorrect claim about legal expenses.
Count Chocula responds with a deranged post that doesn't address this criticism in the slightest.
SancheztheWhaler point's out that Count Chocula sounds like a fuckwad.

and Chocula responds with:

Way to address my argument, Sanchez! In your opinion, who came out ahead: Trump or Obama?

... which has nothing to do with Dalton's post.

[Iroscato]

This proves nothing. Until somebody brings me footage of Obama's birth, with high def video that proves conclusively that his mother's vagina was localed firmly within the United States (via signs, famous landmarks, or celebrities confirmed to be in the United States at the time by other video evidence), I will continue to believe he is a secret comminazi islamic atheist sleeper agent planted by the fey folk to create national socialistic death panels specifically designed to have anyone who has ever read the King James Bible shot by gay soldiers. In the butt.

I may just sig that.
With regards to the topic, isn't it strange Obama released his birth certificate just as the old re-election engine gets fired back up? Not that I have anything against the guy, but why wait until now?

[Alyeska]

@ dalton: hey shitfart, what the fuck difference does it make WHY Big Barry O spent the dough? Maybe most of the shit was frivolous; ask Palin how much she spent on frivolous Dem lawsuits. Unlike Palin, Big Barry O can keep on saying "fuck you!" And he has no fucking limits on his legal expenses.

Intent is everything. The reasons for doing something determines everything. Thats what the fucking difference is. Dumbass.

[Crossroads Inc.]

The issue now of course is NOT, I repeat NOT that Obama wasn't born outside of the United States! Heavens no! The issue is that upon his birth., Evidently Kenya, by Obama's fathers blessing, Kenya granted Obama Kenya Citizenship!!! Or maybe it was UK citizenship? Who cares! The point is that this was NEVER about weather Obama was born in America. No no no no.

This is about him having (bum bum bum) Duel Citizenship! Which is a clear conflict of interest and thus makes him totally absolutely ineligible to be President! Huh? What do you mean he Is no longer a duel citizen???
Well that doesn't change anything at all! He is still ineligible to be President! Why, just look at our Sources!

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The issue now of course is NOT, I repeat NOT that Obama wasn't born outside of the United States! Heavens no! The issue is that upon his birth., Evidently Kenya, by Obama's fathers blessing, Kenya granted Obama Kenya Citizenship!!! Or maybe it was UK citizenship? Who cares! The point is that this was NEVER about weather Obama was born in America. No no no no.

This is about him having (bum bum bum) Duel Citizenship! Which is a clear conflict of interest and thus makes him totally absolutely ineligible to be President! Huh? What do you mean he Is no longer a duel citizen???
Well that doesn't change anything at all! He is still ineligible to be President! Why, just look at our Sources!

If you ask me, I think rather the issue really is that some people are just downright racist and just looking for an excuse to give him the boot.

[Dalton]

@ dalton: hey shitfart, what the fuck difference does it make WHY Big Barry O spent the dough?

Because you lied. You made an incorrect claim, I called you on it, and now you say that it doesn't make a difference.

It does.

It means that you are a lying sack of shit and you can't back up your bullshit, debunked claim, so you'll just go ahead and argue about something else that I didn't dispute.

[Big Phil]

Remember, about 20 hours ago, when I posted the following:

It doesn't matter. Altered, not altered, photograph or PDF, the birthers will just keep moving the goalposts and keep believing whatever bullshit they want to believe. They'll deny it's legitimate because it says "Certificate of Live Birth" instead of "Birth Certificate" or because it doesn't list a religion (neither does mine, by the way, or my son's... I guess we were born in Kenya too).

Well, now it's actually happened. See below:


http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/04/27/ ... index.html

Can the "birthers" ever be convinced that Barack Obama was born in America and is eligible to serve as president?

Probably not, according to one prominent psychology professor and other political observers.

Since Obama launched his bid for the White House, a sizable minority of Americans has expressed strong doubts about whether he was actually born in the United States. Over the past few years, the allegation that he was born overseas -- in Kenya or perhaps Indonesia -- has taken on a life of its own, despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary.

A recent CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll showed that roughly 25% of Americans -- including over four in 10 Republicans -- believe Obama was definitely or probably not born in the United States.

Earlier this week, CNN released the results of its own investigation into the controversy. Documents and statements from numerous public officials and childhood friends made clear that the president was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961.

On Wednesday, Obama himself addressed the issue, pleading for an end to the distractions of "sideshows" and "carnival barkers."

The president yielded to demands from his critics that he release his original long-form birth certificate, filing a special legal request with Hawaiian authorities to release a document that is no longer used for official purposes and ordinarily remains buried in the basement archives of the state health department.

Obama's 2008 release of the more common "live birth certification" -- a short computer-generated form typically used for documentation purposes -- did little to silence the chorus of skeptics.

It remains to be seen whether Wednesday's release will be received any differently. But the early reaction wasn't exactly positive.

One of the main websites pushing the birther claims -- birthers.org -- declared that "forgery or not, now we can debate the true meaning of a natural born citizen."

The U.S. Constitution says only "natural born" citizens can become president -- a vague clause that some members of the birther movement contend disqualifies Obama if he was born outside the United States.

Joseph Farah, editor-in-chief of the conservative website WorldNetDaily.com, said that "we know (Obama's) father was a Kenyan citizen, and that he would therefore confer Kenyan or U.K. citizenship on his son, which would at best make him a dual citizen."

Dual citizenship, Farah asserted, "is not what the Founders had in mind when they coined the phrase 'natural born citizen.'"

Sharon Guthrie, the legislative director for a Texas state representative backing a bill requiring proof of citizenship for presidential ballot access, told the website Slate.com that she was still suspicious.

"What they produced today ... still says certificate of live birth across the top," she said. "We want to see a 'birth certificate.' ... The one that we have that says 'birth certificate' is from Mombassa, Kenya, with his footprint on it. He has still not produced an American birth certificate."

Why the unrelenting skepticism?

Emory University's Drew Westen, author of the "The Political Brain" and an informal advisor to Obama's 2008 campaign, chalked up much of it to Obama's reluctance to immediately rebut the charge more quickly in the presidential race.

"The right wing was attempting to make him 'one of them' as opposed to 'one of us,'" he claimed.

Westen, a professor of psychology and psychiatry, cited what psychologists call the "sleeper effect."

"If you present negative information about someone and it initially goes unchallenged, you might alter some people's conscious beliefs by challenging it later," he asserted. "But they are left with a negative gut-level feeling that doesn't go away."

"Political feelings, once they are strongly held, tend to be resistant to facts. It's just the result of the way our brains work," he said.

Westen mentioned the so-called "Swift Boat" attacks against Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in 2004, which called into question the senator's service in Vietnam.

Kerry "allowed his honor to be challenged and didn't respond for weeks," Westen said. "When finally he did respond and had definitive evidence that the attacks were untrue, it was too late. People's feelings towards him had already changed. They wouldn't change back by that point."

Along similar lines, Westen told CNN that if staunch Democrats or Republicans are presented with clear evidence of wrongdoing on the part of their party's nominee shortly before an election, they'll come up with "every kind of rationalization to explain it away."

"We fight off information that makes us feel bad and gravitate toward information that makes us comfortable," he said.

Westen also brought up the explosive issue of race, one of the biggest political lightning rods in U.S. history. He insisted the birther movement never would have taken hold with a white president.

It's not fair to call a large segment of today's electorate "1950s-style racists," he said. But some people are "unconsciously prejudiced in a way that predisposes them to not believing that a black man with a funny name could have really been legitimately elected president of the United States."

But Bill Mayer, a Northeastern University political scientist, took issue with the notion of race as the critical component of the birther movement.

"The fact that Obama is black may affect the form of the conspiracy, but probably not the fact that there is a following for this rumor," he told CNN. "Conspiracy beliefs have a long history in American politics."

Mayer cited a range of political conspiracy theories, including claims regarding the Kennedy assassination, involvement on the part of the Clintons in alleged murders, and George W. Bush's supposed knowledge of the 9/11 terror attacks.

Presidential historian Douglas Brinkley noted that, back in the 19th century, questions were raised over the American roots of Andrew Jackson and Chester Arthur.

But it was "nothing like this," he told CNN. "We are now in the age of electronic journalism. ... This has become a ghastly scenario (over) the last month."

Mayer suggested that Obama's release of the long-form birth certificate will "further marginalize those who insist (the matter of his birth) is an open question." Still, he added, "I don't understand why the White House took so long" to put out the document.

Just how long will the controversy drag on? Westen claimed the birther issue will continue to be political fodder until a critical mass of Republican leaders decide it's making the GOP look "foolish" and hurting the party among independent voters.

A spokesman for House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, released a statement Wednesday claiming that the controversy "has long been a settled issue."

History suggests otherwise.

CNN's Brian Todd and Shannon Travis contributed to this report

[hongi]

If you ask me, I think rather the issue really is that some people are just downright racist and just looking for an excuse to give him the boot.

I didn't want to believe it. I mean really, it's the 21st freaking century. But it's getting hard to excuse the hysteria. The only other alternative I can think of is that they've been feeding on this insanity for so long that it's become a self-perpetuating form of delusion, a shitstorm of ignorance if you will, formed by the warm thermals of hatred.

[Anguirus]

Personally, I think Obama just threw away his second term.

To whom exactly? It's very late in the game and no one out there has convinced me that they have what it takes to beat Obama in a general election at all.

It seems to me that it's getting very tough to keep the Tea Party happy without alienating the middle. Trump did exactly the opposite of what he should have done to win the presidency...he started as a relatively blank slate so he could have appeared above it all, then immediately tacked into right-wing conspiracy theories. It got him really neat publicity and threw red meat to the Republican base...and probably cost HIM the general. You can't run a campaign around birtherism and affirmative action-ism, anymore than someone could have beaten Bush 2 by questioning his legitimacy and GPA. Can you imagine Trump bringing it up in a debate? Obama would metaphorically tear out his still-beating heart on national TV.

Moreover, Trump murdered utterly his good standing among African Americans by bragging about it on national TV. I'm not sure a candidate has ever alienated a demographic more in two seconds. His primary accomplishment in the past month has been building up his racist credentials, which he apparently thinks were sadly lacking before.

[Serafina]

If you ask me, I think rather the issue really is that some people are just downright racist and just looking for an excuse to give him the boot.

I didn't want to believe it. I mean really, it's the 21st freaking century. But it's getting hard to excuse the hysteria. The only other alternative I can think of is that they've been feeding on this insanity for so long that it's become a self-perpetuating form of delusion, a shitstorm of ignorance if you will, formed by the warm thermals of hatred.

There are a lot of people with suppressed prejudices.
Not openly discriminating against another human being merely requires an external pressure to discourage such behavior. Well, that's what political correctness is good for, discrimination is generally seen as bad (at least in the case of race).
But not having any prejudices is much harder. Either you are brought up without any such prejudices - but then you can still develop your own because humans tend to be wary of unfamiliar things. Or you have to get rid of your old prejudices, which is a very hard feat. In both cases, not having prejudices requires effort to understand other people.

And there is still a lot of cultural baggage that discourages such efforts. Even without that, plenty of people simply do not come into contact with other groups of people, especially not early in their lives. The longer you had a prejudice, the harder it is to remove - so when a rich white kid has his first actual contact (actually talking to people, not just seeing them on the street) with racial or other minorities in college, how likely is he to overcome his prejudices?


Of course there are also other factors at work here. Terrorist-scaremongering might be one, after all Obama IS Hussein and "terrorists are Muslims and therefore black". Sheer hatred because he is NOT a Republican also has a role.

So it's probably like this:
Deeply ingrained, possibly suppressed, racism leads people to buy into the whole "he's (descended from) a terrorist"-conspiracy crap. Because he is opposing their political point of view, they use that as a lever to remove him from office.
The first part is probably the mindset of 1/4th of all americans. The latter is the mindset of all those who are also republicans.

[Lord MJ]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ret/print/

EDITORIAL: Birth certificate isn’t Obama’s only secret
White House aversion to transparency undermines good government

The Washington Times

Barack Hussein Obama II was born on Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Hawaii. For over two years, the president has resisted pressure to divulge this simple biographical information, which proves he's a natural-born citizen. The belated White House release of the "long form" birth certificate answers one constitutional issue, but a host of other questions remains about the most mysterious president in modern history.

Mr. Obama's hostility to openness drives the public's curiosity about the most basic facts of his life. For example, he has refused to release his college and law-school transcripts, information recent presidential candidates have openly shown the public despite some embarrassment over decades-old bad grades. What is there for this president to hide? Maybe he flunked government classes or got busted for dope. He has openly discussed his past drug use, but is there more to it? Secrecy breeds speculation.

The list of hidden Obama documents includes medical records from his annual physical - which other presidents have made public - and first lady Michelle Obama's law-firm records. Is she covering up a Hillary Clinton-type Whitewater case? Who knows. Perhaps the biggest secret in the Obama administration: What is the president's golf handicap? He's played 65 rounds in two years, so is his swing improving? Or, does he force staff aides in his usual foursome to let him take presidential mulligans?

Donald Trump takes full credit for the timing of Wednesday's long-delayed Obama disclosure, as the real-estate mogul launched his own investigation into the presidential birth certificate. "Today I'm very proud of myself because I've accomplished something that no one else was able to accomplish," Mr. Trump boasted after landing his Trump-branded helicopter in New Hampshire."Now we can talk about oil; we can talk about gasoline prices; we can talk about China ripping off this country. ... We can get onto issues."

The fact that Mr. Obama did his own dirty laundry reminds that this president has no inkling how to act presidential. Standing at the podium over the seal of the presidency, he claimed, "We don't have time for this silliness." He then flew to Chicago with Michelle to tape the Oprah Winfrey show and attend three fundraisers. It's not as if he didn't have more important news to discuss such as the appointments of Leon E. Panetta as secretary of defense and Gen. David H. Petraeus as CIA director, Middle East turmoil or America's multiple wars. Let a flack handle the tabloid fare.

The birth-certificate brouhaha reiterates an old political truth: It's always the cover-up that causes the most trouble. Too bad Mr. Obama didn't learn his lesson.

Sigh... I think Obama needs to come out stand in front of the presidential seal and say "I have no more time to accommodate the silliness of racists and lunatics, that includes you Mr. Trump. The people in power need to start calling out stupidity for what it is instead of cowering to avoid offending people.

[Simon_Jester]

If Obama were the kind of man who could, or would, do something along those lines, we would be in a very different situation right now.

I'm honestly not sure we'd be better off, but at least things would be different.

[FSTargetDrone]

Ah. A thought-provoking editorial from that conservicon moonie rag.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Wait wait, whats that about the birth certificate from Kenya with his footprint on it? Is that a joke?