the Terran Empire meets Babylon 5

[FaxModem1]

Classic wormhole scenario. Only instead of ST vs SW, its the Terran Empire from Star Trek's Mirror Universe vs Babylon 5.

Its 2267 for the Terran Empire, just after Kirk and company have left and gone back to their own universe, 'Mirror, Mirror'.

2257 for Earth Alliance and everyone else in that galaxy, shortly after the events of 'Midnight on the Firing Line'.

What happens?

[NecronLord]

The same as any other Star Trek vs B5 engagement: A curb-stomp, save only if the First Ones throw substantial firepower at it.

[lord Martiya]

Wait, wouldn't be more probable that Earth Alliance and the Terran Empire ally? I mean, I know that Santiago is still president, but the Alliance is still quite scarred after the Earth-Minbari War, and the Senate could appreciate having an human ally that has defeated its alien opponents, including their own genocidal foe (the Xindi, assuming theirs too tried to destroy Earth).
Frankly I'd expect that the Imperial-Alliance front would wait for a provocation before starting the war, and in that time Spock may rise the ranks enough to get important...

[NecronLord]

They're frankly massive dickheads who'd prefer to conquer the EA than tolerate it being independant, at least from their presentation in Mirror Mirror.

[lord Martiya]

Would they be stupid enough to overtly attack instead of getting Alliance people to willingly join? With them being an human empire that has defeated any alien threath, quite a lot of Alliance humans may be willing to anything for their protection against the Minbari...

[keen320]

It seems that the Terran Empire has had a lot more of the corruption/general evilness sift down to the general population than in, say, the Galactic Empire.

Would they be stupid enough to overtly attack instead of getting Alliance people to willingly join? With them being an human empire that has defeated any alien threath, quite a lot of Alliance humans may be willing to anything for their protection against the Minbari...

Probably. In some ways they seem worse than the TOS Klingons do, and their government isn't too bright. IIRC, according to the Star Trek novels on the mirror universe, their first contact procedure is essentially to attack the aliens, capture their ship, and torture them for information. I doubt the fact that the new group is human would hold them back at all.

[Ahriman238]

The Terrans and EA form an alliance allowing the Empire to use EA bases and staging grounds while they conquer the galaxy. Secretly, each party prepares to backstab the other in increaingly intricate and machivellian ways.

Then the Empire sends an "expedition force" into Vorlon Space and the curbstomp equation is suddenly reversed. Humanity as we know it ends within the year.

[OmegaChief]

Arn't the Terran Empire exactly the kind of people the Shadows would like though? Sowing chaos and destruction everywhere like that?

[NecronLord]

Probably. In some ways they seem worse than the TOS Klingons do, and their government isn't too bright. IIRC, according to the Star Trek novels on the mirror universe, their first contact procedure is essentially to attack the aliens, capture their ship, and torture them for information. I doubt the fact that the new group is human would hold them back at all.

Also Enterprise.



Couldn't find the clip in English, in short they shout 'SEIZE THEIR SHIP' and rush it.

This is incredibly foolish, of course, and if the Vulcans hadn't been Enterprise-grade chumps they would have been in terrible, terrible, world-of-hurt trouble.

[NecronLord]

Then the Empire sends an "expedition force" into Vorlon Space and the curbstomp equation is suddenly reversed. Humanity as we know it ends within the year.

Unlikely. The Vorlons generally just crush such intrusions and suggest no more be sent. If they somehow managed to kill a Vorlon though...

[Ahriman238]

Unlikely. The Vorlons generally just crush such intrusions and suggest no more be sent. If they somehow managed to kill a Vorlon though...

But they can and do react unkindly to people messing with their plan to make everyone in the galaxt 'Vote Vorlon.' They were peresonally involved in the last Shadow War a thousand years before the series, and towards the end of the present War, when they didn't like the way things were going they started blowing up planets.

Gving the Vorlons a casus belli after already antagonizing them your existence and actions seems like a really stupid move, something to the effect of 'just give me an excuse.' Unfortunatly, it's exactly the sort of stupid move the Terrans would make.

Hmm... I wonder how widespread the Tantalus Field technology may have become...

Couldn't find the clip in English, in short they shout 'SEIZE THEIR SHIP' and rush it.

This is incredibly foolish, of course, and if the Vulcans hadn't been Enterprise-grade chumps they would have been in terrible, terrible, world-of-hurt trouble.

:sigh: And now that that's been on a show it's probably cannon now. I kind of liked the Shatnerverse version, where the point of divergence was Cochrane warning everyone about the Borg. So humanity spreads to the stars not in the spirit of exploration and goodwill, but in the certainty that the stars contain powerful enemies. I like the thought of a more militant Federation that gradually becomes the Empire, rather than the Humans conquering the Vulcans and being evil expansionists from day one.

[aussiemuscle308]

a pretty close comparison would be "Star Wreck - in the Pirkining" it's basically a ripoff of trek vs babylon.

[Swindle1984]

Wouldn't PsiCorps offer the EA a huge advantage, even if the TE conquered them?

Shit, I can see Bester smirking in satisfaction, because not only can the Psi Cops launch their coup, but the general populace gets to think of them as heroes for doing it.

[Metahive]

a pretty close comparison would be "Star Wreck - in the Pirkining" it's basically a ripoff of trek vs babylon.

Didn't this battle operate under special circumstances where the pseudo-Trek side had its shields disabled? It's been long since I watched that flick (fine spacebattle though).

[Juubi Karakuchi]

Wouldn't PsiCorps offer the EA a huge advantage, even if the TE conquered them?

Shit, I can see Bester smirking in satisfaction, because not only can the Psi Cops launch their coup, but the general populace gets to think of them as heroes for doing it.

Almost insurmountably, considering what Psi Corps agents are shown to be capable of. If we're focussing entirely on 'Mirror Mirror' for an idea of what the Terran Empire is capable of, then the TE has no apparent defence against weaponized telepathy aside from Vulcan crewmembers. Funnily enough in Diane Duane's 'Dark Mirror' , the TNG era TE used telepaths and empaths in a similar fashion (Deanna Troi was the ISS Enterprise's Political Officer).

I've just checked my copy of the Babylon 5 Psi Corps sourcebook (Mongoose). It puts Psi Corps membership at 3 million. Of those, 31.5% are P1 (touch telepathy and blocks), 23.5% are P2 (mental communication) and 19.5% are P3 (basic scanning), so most aren't all that capable. The military-grade telepaths are P10 at 0.2% (expert blocks), P11 at 0.1% (psychoengineering), and P12 at 0.05% (all). Ther sourcebook claims that telepaths have never succeeded in taking down a capital ship, so their role would most likely be spec-ops and intel (including interrogation).

[lord Martiya]

And possibly brainwashing. After all, Earth Alliance replaced capital punishment with wiping out the personality of the killer and implanting a socially useful one, and Psi Corps actually implanted a new personality as a weapon at least once. Granted, it's difficult to do it to the truly depraved ones (Talia went nearly mad while doing the preparatory scan on such a person), but it's still an ability.

[Marcus Aurelius]

a pretty close comparison would be "Star Wreck - in the Pirkining" it's basically a ripoff of trek vs babylon.

Didn't this battle operate under special circumstances where the pseudo-Trek side had its shields disabled? It's been long since I watched that flick (fine spacebattle though).

Yes, nothing too special about it though. The versus discussion principle that all technology should work as it does in the canon source material is there just to facilitate discussion; there is no other reason to assume it, and the movie was not intended as a versus discussion commentary as such... In "SW: ItP" the battle takes place in the parody B5 universe, which does not allow Star Wreck universe (i.e. parody ST) style shield technology to exist, so the shields simply do not work.

In fact I have always thought that the reasonable assumption would be that many scifi universes have mutually exclusive laws of physics and therefore cannot be compared at all, but since fatty nerds love the versus discussions, all the technology has to work somehow, or they would become practically impossible.