Does anyone else feel impressed by this thoughtful quote of Jolee Bindo's regarding love? (Quote taken from YouTube's Tales of Jolee Bindo vids.)
The Tales of Jolee Bindo – Love
REVAN: You mentioned something about your wife before?
JOLEE BINDO: I don't want to talk about that.
REVAN: I don't mean to pry, but...
JOLEE BINDO: Yes you do. You may mean well enough, but my private affairs are just that: private.
JOLEE BINDO: Let me tell you something. Once you've lived as many years as I have, you'll have yourself a long, long list of memories.
JOLEE BINDO: If you're lucky, most of them will be good. If you're not, some will be bad. If you're really unlucky, some will be so bad you never want to be reminded of them again... ever.
JOLEE BINDO: You'll go far away, to a place that doesn't hold any memories at all. And there you'll be happy just to forget and be forgotten.
REVAN: Is that why you went to Kashyyyk?
JOLEE BINDO: Heh. Partly, maybe. I doubt I could ever explain it to you fully, even if I wanted to.
JOLEE BINDO: Let me ask you this: have you ever been in love? Truly in love, I mean, and not simple infatuation.
REVAN: Well...
JOLEE BINDO: Exactly. You're still at the beginning of your life. There will be women in your life... perhaps many women... but if you're fortunate you'll find love once.
JOLEE BINDO: The Jedi, with their damnable sense of over-caution, would tell you love is something to avoid. Thankfully, anyone who's even partially alive knows that's not true.
REVAN: That's what I've always thought.
JOLEE BINDO: Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled... but passion is not the same thing as love.
JOLEE BINDO: Controlling your passions while being in love... that's what they should teach you to beware. But love, itself, will save you... not condemn you.
JOLEE BINDO: Ahhhh, but listen to me go on as if I had all the answers. What do I know of love anymore? I'm just a lonely old man who's not even a Jedi.
REVAN: Not even a Jedi? You mean not any more, right?
JOLEE BINDO: Nope. Never was. Technically I never rose above the rank of Padawan, for various reasons. Does that surprise you?
REVAN: Not the way you describe your past, no.
JOLEE BINDO: Heh, I suppose I'm not prone to live my life like most of the Jedi Masters do, that's true. My opinions on love are no different.
JOLEE BINDO: Love causes pain, certainly. Inevitably love is going to lead to as much sorrow and regret as it does joy. I suppose there are perfect, eternal loves out there... but I haven't seen any.
JOLEE BINDO: How you deal with the bad part of love is what determines your character, what determines the dark side's hold over you.
REVAN: Maybe the Jedi just think you shouldn't take that risk.
JOLEE BINDO: Bah. A life without risk is boring. Is that how you want to live? You want love, you've got to fight for it.
JOLEE BINDO: I'll tell you one thing: sometimes, no matter how hard you try, you and the one you love simply aren't meant to be together.
JOLEE BINDO: The trick is to know when that is, to know when it's time to fight and when it's time to part ways.
JOLEE BINDO: Hmph... there I go waxing philosophical again. Somebody blast me already! Let's get going before I start talking in riddles, dammit!
Well? I think it's not just for Star Wars, but a real, worldly piece of advice that anyone can understand. If ONLY someone had sat down and taken the time to tell this to Anakin... imagine how much better off the galaxy'd be...
To be fair, Yoda tried. But you saw how that turned out.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.
You win. There, I have said it.
Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
Anakin wouldn't have listened. Obi-Wan might have been able to help Anakin, if he'd been around at the right time. Qui-Gon would have been a better teacher than Obi-Wan.
Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds."
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
Yoda successfully made the Jedi Order in his own image, insofar as it wasn't already like that: a bunch of dried-up, wrinkled old muppets. That had a lot to do with Anakin's fall: the very fact that he was forced to conceal his relationship to Padme made it hard to seek help for her. And made Jedi teachings about detachment and learning to let go totally useless as a way of reaching him and convincing him not to follow up on his prophetic dreams.
A... livelier Order might well have been able to keep Anakin from losing the plot so thoroughly.
Simon_Jester wrote:Yoda successfully made the Jedi Order in his own image, insofar as it wasn't already like that: a bunch of dried-up, wrinkled old muppets. That had a lot to do with Anakin's fall: the very fact that he was forced to conceal his relationship to Padme made it hard to seek help for her. And made Jedi teachings about detachment and learning to let go totally useless as a way of reaching him and convincing him not to follow up on his prophetic dreams.
A... livelier Order might well have been able to keep Anakin from losing the plot so thoroughly.
Simon_Jester wrote:Yoda successfully made the Jedi Order in his own image, insofar as it wasn't already like that: a bunch of dried-up, wrinkled old muppets. That had a lot to do with Anakin's fall: the very fact that he was forced to conceal his relationship to Padme made it hard to seek help for her. And made Jedi teachings about detachment and learning to let go totally useless as a way of reaching him and convincing him not to follow up on his prophetic dreams.
A... livelier Order might well have been able to keep Anakin from losing the plot so thoroughly.
He could have just left the Order.
He did! He helped Palpy fuck over Mace Windu and joined the Sith.
Oh, wait- you mean earlier...
"Darth Tedious just showed why women can go anywhere they want because they are, in effect, mobile kitchens." - RazorOutlaw
"That could never happen because super computers." - Stark
"Don't go there girl! Talk to the VTOL cause the glass canopy ain't listening!" - Shroomy
Simon_Jester wrote:Yoda successfully made the Jedi Order in his own image, insofar as it wasn't already like that: a bunch of dried-up, wrinkled old muppets. That had a lot to do with Anakin's fall: the very fact that he was forced to conceal his relationship to Padme made it hard to seek help for her. And made Jedi teachings about detachment and learning to let go totally useless as a way of reaching him and convincing him not to follow up on his prophetic dreams.
A... livelier Order might well have been able to keep Anakin from losing the plot so thoroughly.
He could have just left the Order.
A fair bit of the damage had been done at that point. Yeah, he could have left the Order, but he still needed good advice. His desperation to keep Padme alive combined with Palpatine offering a way to make that happen are what ultimately put him over the edge.
Granted, he had already developed anger problems before then. But the Order was far too dependent on the Force telling them when things were going south, instead of also having counselors on-hand to talk to anyone in need of good counseling. If they had used more mundane methods of watching people's behavior for warning signs they could have potentially caught his instability in time to keep him from being driven over the edge.
Sig images are for people who aren't fucking lazy.
Hopefully this thread won't turn into a "Yoda gave Anakin horrible advice it was his fault!" bullshit-fest when it's pretty damn clear that Yoda had no clue of the circumstances behind Anakin's visions which would have given him a better idea of what he might say instead, and also the critical fact that if Anakin had actually followed Yoda's advice he wouldn't have ended up handing the galaxy over to Palpatine.
But hey, I hear the Jedi were the bad guys anyways.
"If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little." -George Carlin (1937-2008)
"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting." -Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
Yoda's advice, when one considers his point of view, is perfectly logical and the only sane advice he could give. He has lived for about 900 years and seen a lot of his comrades and friends die. He would have gone insane from grief if he had not taken that approach. And Yoda also knows (or at least believes strongly) that one's existence doesn't end with physical death, but continues in the Force, so while he recognizes why people feel sadness and grief over the passing of their friends and family, he has a different approach. It's detached and can appear cold, but it's only natural and logical - and we also see that Yoda is not above sadness in the very same movie he offered that particular piece of advice. Remember that when Yoda spoke to Anakin he was still speaking, from his point of view, to someone who still has more to learn and still needs guidance and role model. In his dealings with Windu and Kenobi he showed a more vulnerable, humane side and he considered them his equals (both being members of the Council and respected Jedi Masters).
And about Jolee Bindo: a lot of what he says is not something that can be applied to everyone, at least not in any straight-forward manner. Jolee seems to speak about platonic love in the opening quote of this thread (love detached from passion) and that's not suitable or even manageable for everyone. And Jolee is over 60 years old when he makes those comments, or was he even over 70? He couldn't have followed his own advice back when he was young, most likely. He did know when to cut his losses, so to speak, when his dear wife turned out to be one of Exar Kun's followers - but then again even Anakin nearly succeeded in a very similar matter (rejecting his mentor figure after he was revealed to be a Lord of the Sith). But Bindo had no master of the dark side to whisper into his ear over a decade. Quite frankly the fact that Anakin almost resisted the temptation is astounding. Then again, Bindo is not entirely wrong, either - the Jedi way, at least as of the Clone Wars era, is clearly too detached from emotions, unable to cope with them in a manner that wouldn't leave something to be wanted.
One problem with the Jedi training (and with any type of interaction between an older and a younger person) may be, though, that of a generation and of age difference: almost all the Masters are experienced and have many years under their belt, as do the wise sage types who aren't Masters themselves (case in point, Bindo). They offer advice that is very hard for the young and the hot-headed to follow simply because the advice advices caution, introspection etc. How many of you could follow such advice when you were teenager or barely adult?
Confiteor Deo omnipotenti; beatae Mariae semper Virgini; beato Michaeli Archangelo; sanctis Apostolis, omnibus sanctis... Tibit Pater, quia peccavi nimis, cogitatione, verbo et opere, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Kyrie Eleison!
The Imperial Senate (defunct) * Knights Astrum Clades * The Mess
Lord Falcon wrote:Well? I think it's not just for Star Wars, but a real, worldly piece of advice that anyone can understand. If ONLY someone had sat down and taken the time to tell this to Anakin... imagine how much better off the galaxy'd be...
The Jedi Order of Jolee's time was a less hidebound entity than the one Yoda was a part of. Imagine the difference between the disparate Messianistic Cults to the Catholic Church. Around the KotOR era was when the Jedi Order was making that transition, Jolee Bindo was trained as a Jedi before that transition, before the Jedi insisted on not having families, before they wore specific uniforms, before they used the single Master-Padawan relationship.
