Ron Paul: Social Security, Medicare = Slavery

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Patrick Degan
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Ron Paul: Social Security, Medicare = Slavery

Post by Patrick Degan »

Ron Paul, ladies and gentlemen. Too crazy even forFoxGOP:
Appearing on Fox News Sunday this morning, Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) defended his longstanding view that Medicare, Social Security (and pretty much everything else) violate the Constitution. At one point, Paul even claimed that letting Social Security and similar programs to move forward is just like permitting slavery:

WALLACE: You talk a lot about the Constitution. You say Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are all unconstitutional.

PAUL: Technically, they are. … There’s no authority [in the Constitution]. Article I, Section 8 doesn’t say I can set up an insurance program for people. What part of the Constitution are you getting it from? The liberals are the ones who use this General Welfare Clause. … That is such an extreme liberal viewpoint that has been mistaught in our schools for so long and that’s what we have to reverse—that very notion that you’re presenting.

WALLACE: Congressman, it’s not just a liberal view. It was the decision of the Supreme Court in 1937 when they said that Social Security was constitutional under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.

PAUL: And the Constitution and the courts said slavery was legal too, and we had to reverse that.

Watch it:



As Chris Wallace tries to explain, Paul’s crankish view of the Constitution cannot be squared with the document’s text. The Constitution gives Congress the power to “to lay and collect taxes” and to “provide for the…general welfare of the United States,” which is exactly what Social Security does. Nor is this reading of the Constitution’s unambiguous words limited to “extreme liberals.” Conservative Justice Antonin Scalia recently told a gathering of Members of Congress that “It’s up to Congress how you want to appropriate, basically.”

Indeed, the overwhelming majority of Paul’s fellow House Republicans disagree with his bizarre view that Medicare and other government-funded insurance programs violate the Constitution. 207 Republicans voted in support of President George W. Bush’s proposal to create a federal prescription drug insurance program under Medicare, including such notables as future Speaker John Boehner, uber-tenther Scott Garrett, and future Budget chair Paul Ryan. Although the GOP more recently voted for a radical plan to phase out the Medicare program, even that slow repeal of Medicare cannot be squared with Paul’s apparent view that it violates the Constitution to allow Medicare to continue one minute longer.

Like so many other Republicans, Paul needs to learn that the Constitution is not some toy that he can take apart and reassemble to force the nation down whatever path he chooses. The Constitution’s words actually mean something, and Ron Paul is not free to ignore them.

Paul’s son, Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), recently said that giving people a right to healthcare is the equivalent of “slavery.”
Not only ignorant of constitutional law but also American history as well: slavery was legal under the U.S. constitution until outlawed by the 13th Amendment.

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Re: Ron Paul: Social Security, Medicare = Slavery

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

I am neither a lawyer nor a law student nor even an American, I have no familiarity with your constitution whatsoever and I can see this guy is talking crap:

“provide for the…general welfare of the United States,”

That's unambiguous, even to a nitpicky English sod like myself.

On a side note, that picture is at turns both hilarious - showing this crazy old man surrounded by his insane vision, yet also incredibly sad; showing this crazy old man surrounded by his dreams that will never happen. It looks like everyone's just walked off and left him there alone.
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Re: Ron Paul: Social Security, Medicare = Slavery

Post by Serafina »

Even if that part did NOT refer to social security - that would NOT mean that it was unconstitutional!
It'd just mean that it is not mentioned in the constitution. That goes for an awful lot of things - you might as well say that national holidays are unconstitutional because they are not mentioned in the constitution.
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Re: Ron Paul: Social Security, Medicare = Slavery

Post by Patrick Degan »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:On a side note, that picture is at turns both hilarious - showing this crazy old man surrounded by his insane vision, yet also incredibly sad; showing this crazy old man surrounded by his dreams that will never happen. It looks like everyone's just walked off and left him there alone.
You'll have to credit Mr. Coffee for first providing that memorable image in another thread. Personally, I think it should accompany every Ron Paul thread. It so completely sums the man up.
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Re: Ron Paul: Social Security, Medicare = Slavery

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

The king who has lost everything sat in the tattered hall of his castle, abandoned by all those who supported him. How very apt.
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Re: Ron Paul: Social Security, Medicare = Slavery

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Serafina wrote:Even if that part did NOT refer to social security - that would NOT mean that it was unconstitutional!
It'd just mean that it is not mentioned in the constitution. That goes for an awful lot of things - you might as well say that national holidays are unconstitutional because they are not mentioned in the constitution.
Correct.

Sadly, many Republcians consider their personal, insane misrepresentation of the Constitution to be more valid than our foremost legal experts. The mere fact that Ron Paul is taken seriously enough for people to vote for, people to promote him, and for him to be covered by the mass media as something other than a nut...is depressing to me.
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Re: Ron Paul: Social Security, Medicare = Slavery

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Serafina wrote:Even if that part did NOT refer to social security - that would NOT mean that it was unconstitutional!
It'd just mean that it is not mentioned in the constitution. That goes for an awful lot of things - you might as well say that national holidays are unconstitutional because they are not mentioned in the constitution.
There actually are people, called strict constructionists, who believe that if something is not explicitly given to the government in the constitution that thing/power/whatever actually is unconstitutional.

Unfortunately for them, that approach isn't very workable in the real world. People who understand the founding fathers weren't omniscient and precognitive are called "loose constructionists", and believe that such phrases as "general welfare" can include things such as Medicare and social security.
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Re: Ron Paul: Social Security, Medicare = Slavery

Post by UnderAGreySky »

Don't be so quick to assume he is just a lonely old kook. I've seen him accused on other forums of deliberately running such eccentric campaigns as he gets a lot of money from idealists, very little of which is spent on actual campaign costs (nothing like what I remember McCain had, something called the Straight Talk Express). Maybe it's just a good way to collect money. His voting record suggests he's against 'pork' unless it's for his district. I wouldn't feel bad for him just yet.
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Re: Ron Paul: Social Security, Medicare = Slavery

Post by Brother-Captain Gaius »

Say what you will about some of his ideas, but at least he's consistent and honest about them. I respect the man a hell of a lot more than the talking head who's interviewing him in the OP's video.

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Re: Ron Paul: Social Security, Medicare = Slavery

Post by kaeneth »

UnderAGreySky wrote:Don't be so quick to assume he is just a lonely old kook. I've seen him accused on other forums of deliberately running such eccentric campaigns as he gets a lot of money from idealists, very little of which is spent on actual campaign costs (nothing like what I remember McCain had, something called the Straight Talk Express). Maybe it's just a good way to collect money. His voting record suggests he's against 'pork' unless it's for his district. I wouldn't feel bad for him just yet.
That seems like a plausible explanation...but what can he do with the money? I've been under the impression you aren't allowed to spend it on yourself.
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Re: Ron Paul: Social Security, Medicare = Slavery

Post by Broomstick »

You can, after you pay off all your campaign bills and pay income tax on what's left.

ETA: well, OK, I'm not 100% sure of that, but that's the rumor.
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Re: Ron Paul: Social Security, Medicare = Slavery

Post by Mr. Coffee »

Will someone just tell that old geezer to shut the fuck up already?
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Re: Ron Paul: Social Security, Medicare = Slavery

Post by Master of Ossus »

Paul's a total moron, but some of the criticisms in this thread are also wrong.
Eternal_Freedom wrote:I am neither a lawyer nor a law student nor even an American, I have no familiarity with your constitution whatsoever and I can see this guy is talking crap:

“provide for the…general welfare of the United States,”

That's unambiguous, even to a nitpicky English sod like myself.
No, it's not. There was contentious debate as to the proper interpretation of that clause in the early days of the Republic. Hamilton was the primary proponent of the view that the clause was meant as a limitation on the power to tax (i.e., "You may ONLY tax in order to provide for the general welfare; you may not levy arbitrary or capricious taxes or spend thusly"). Other founders, notably Madison, held the more modern view that you claim is "unambiguous." Hamilton and other proponents of his limiting view of the clause held sway at least through the Washington/Adams administrations. Only later did the modern view of the clause take shape, only fully emerging in the 1930's and '40's, and the Hamiltonian view of it is still often referenced in constitutional cases on the spending power.
Serafina wrote:Even if that part did NOT refer to social security - that would NOT mean that it was unconstitutional!
So which power, then, would it fall under?

Ours is a constitution of limited powers. If you can't point to a section in the constitution that permits it, then it's unconstitutional.
It'd just mean that it is not mentioned in the constitution. That goes for an awful lot of things - you might as well say that national holidays are unconstitutional because they are not mentioned in the constitution.
Wrong. Even ignoring the "general welfare" clause, this would easily fit into the general clause that gives Congress the power to "make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers," in determining when Federal employees work and when they do not.
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