Cybermen on Valakis (from Dear Doctor) during Enterprise era

[NecronLord]

Actually the primary mechanism by which grenades injure people are fragments, not concussive force.

Ahah. Allow me to elaborate.

The grenades involved were almost certainly concussion grenades (which do), as they were thrown in a confined space (sewers) at cybermen who seemed to be a very short distance away from the UNIT soldiers (and only effective when they landed at the cybermen's feet - and one cyberman took no less than six to kill!) which generally suggests concussion grenades as opposed to fragmentation grenades. One of them appeared to produce a gout of flame, though that could have been the cyberman itself being damaged of course, rather than representing an incendiary grenade.

They certainly don't appear to have anything like the blast radius of fragmentation grenades, but then, TV grenades rarely do, but in this case I'd guess it was intentional. That episode (The Invasion) had rather a lot of British army involvement, to the point that a platoon was supplied for the final fight against the cybermen (in which more grenades are used, some have no effect at about two or three meters, some do; a near miss from a "bazooka" - typically unimpressive explosion - causes one cyberman to apparently malfunction and stagger backward in a daze before collapsing SLRs are completely ineffective throughout)

[Batman]

Thank you for this explanation, and I concur with your analysis.

[NecronLord]

The plot thickens somewhat; having gone and freeze framed; they're "pineapple" Mills Bombs, presumably the No. 36M Mk.I, the standard army grenade as of 1968 (when the episode was made and set) which are of course, frag grenades.

Given the lack of danger to the guys throwing them, I'd generally call this a prop issue (training/smoke versions would be much easier to come by), as concussion grenades make far more sense if you're going into sewers, and the UNIT soldiers knew that was where they were going beforehand, and the weedy explosions (there is after all, an actor inside a cyberman) are more in line with concussion grenades than frag ones... but... that's sorta what happens when one examines TV too closely.

[Darth Tedious]

The MK3A2 that I showed numbers for was not a frag grenade, nor was it listed as a purpose-built concussion or incendiary grenade. I believe it could be viewed as general purpose.

Re phase rifles: 1 megajoule of DET heat should consistantly burn straight through people. This raises fairly severe questions about how inefficient ST weapons can be...

[NecronLord]

That's a phaser rifle in TNG. At full power it can dissolve people in sparkly lights.

[Darth Tedious]

But a lot of that dissolving is caused by NDF...

It would be nice if we knew the regular power output of the ENT-era phase pistols. And their DET:NDF ratio. Then we could get a better idea of how effective they are. Though, as you point out, they certainly don't have the effect they should on inanimate objects when they miss.

[NecronLord]

NDF's a term we make up to describe TV "vapourisation" effects - the guns in Enterprise don't have that feature, therefore we don't need to assume they have any NDF at all. As far as I know they behave like standard death bolts.

[Darth Tedious]

We didn't make up NDF! It was described in the (lol) TNG Technical Manual!
And if they're standard death bolts, shouldn't DET be an accurate way to measure their deadliness?
I realise the Cyberarmour complicates the matter- it protects effectively against 7.62mm, but how resistant exactly is it to death bolts?

[NecronLord]

We didn't make up NDF! It was described in the (lol) TNG Technical Manual!
And if they're standard death bolts, shouldn't DET be an accurate way to measure their deadliness?

No. They have absolutely no effect on the environment, so they're not simply energy weapons like lasers; any energy weapon would actually damage inanimate objects in some way. For that matter, most phaser weapons don't actually damage flesh or fabric (this applies in full measure to Dr Who too, mind you) which pretty much implies they do something to the nervous system.

I realise the Cyberarmour complicates the matter- it protects effectively against 7.62mm, but how resistant exactly is it to death bolts?

Extremely. In Earthshock, and Attack of the Cybermen only hits from their own guns kill them easily, other energy weapons require sustained attack to harm them.