Suggesting a new "Battles" page for the main site

[Ted C]

It just occurred to me that Mike does not yet have a "Battle of Geonosis" page for the "Battles" section of SD.net. I think it's about time for one.

Mike will, of course, ultimately write such a page as he sees fit, but we can do some of the preliminary work, like listing assets, discussing the original history and outcome, and suggesting appropriate Federation forces to replace either the Republic or the Separatists.

Republic Forces
- Several Acclamator-class troopships. These did not lend any fire support (that we saw), they just landed troops.
- Up to 200,000 clone soldiers.
- An unspecified number of LAAT gunships, which can transport troops or drop AT-TEs.
- An unspecified number of SPHA-T mobile weapon platforms.
- A handful of Jedi Knights.

Republic Objective
- Rescue prisoners held by the Separatists
- Neutralize the Separatist army and capture Separatist leaders (note, Palpatine might have had something else in mind, but the army would not have known of his personal ambitions)

Separatist Forces
- Several TradeFed core ships. These did nothing but try to escape.
- An unspecified number of battle droids:
-- "Standard" TradeFed battle droids
-- TradeFed "Super" battle droids
-- Inter-Galactic Banking Clan Hailfire droids
-- Commerce Guild Homing spider droids
-- Commerce Guild Dwarf spider droids
-- Corporate Alliance tank droids (?)
- One "Bad Ass Sith Lord"
- A few unarmed "personal" starships

Separatist Objectives
- Evacuate Separatist leaders and protect droid manufacturing facilities

As I'm sure we all recall, the Clones successfully rescued the prisoners (including some Jedi who had already made an unsuccessful attempt) and pretty much mopped the field with the droids and secured the droid factory, but all of the important Separatist leaders (Count Dooku and the TradeFed Viceroy, for example) escaped.

Any recommendations for Federation forces? Typical rules: no unique characters or pieces of equipment for the visiting team; visitors are in an idealized condition.

[Ted C]

Almost forgot (and damn that lack of an Edit button): The Republic force includes an unspecified number of AT-TE armored fighting vehicles.

Additional info available from Mike's AOTC page.[/quote]

[Darth Servo]

The Feds get several platoons of typical Fed troopers armed with the various phaser types (2, 3 and the FC rifle) and a handful of shuttle craft or maybe run-a-bouts or Peregrins.

[Ted C]

Since we are idealizing the Federation, we shouldn't exclude equipment used in "Nemesis". Would that little dune buggy be worth including?

[Ted C]

The Feds get several platoons of typical Fed troopers armed with the various phaser types (2, 3 and the FC rifle) and a handful of shuttle craft or maybe run-a-bouts or Peregrins.

Runabouts are probably more comparable to LAATs than Peregrin fighters, given their cargo capacity.

[Darth Servo]

Since we are idealizing the Federation, we shouldn't exclude equipment used in "Nemesis". Would that little dune buggy be worth including?

Crap, I forgot the dunebuggy. It would give them greater mobility, but little else. Sure. Include it. How many do they get?

I think they should also have Worf's little bazooka from Insurrection.

[Darth Servo]

Do they get to take a few Intrepid class starships into the atmosphere? The Republic had Acclamators, but they didn't participate in the battle.

[Stravo]

Considering that Starfleet felt that a few guys in pajamas with some phaser rifles was all that was needed to protect the only Dominion communications relay in the quadrant in Federation hands from concerted Dominion assaults I think they sould be allowed solely what we saw in Siege of AR-whatever.

[Isolder74]

Do they get to take a few Intrepid class starships into the atmosphere? The Republic had Acclamators, but they didn't participate in the battle.

why not they could function in simmilar ways as the Acclaimers


the Federation would probably have:
20 Dune Buggys
30 Runabouts
20 Peragrin Fighters

200,000 Federation Troops consiting of
1,000 RPG Troops
100,000 Armed with Type 3 Phaser Rifles(first contact type)
90,000 armed with Standard type 3 Phaser Rifles
1,000 Officers carrying Type 2 Phaser pistols
the rest manning the vehicles and serving as support for them(maintanence ect)

[Ted C]

Do they get to take a few Intrepid class starships into the atmosphere? The Republic had Acclamators, but they didn't participate in the battle.

We might assume that the Federation would use Intrepids or Defiants to land troops, since we assume the Republic/Separatists have enough intel to jam transporters.

[Ted C]

Since I've added the prisoner rescue as a Republic objective, I suppose that an unspecified number of Geonosian soldiers/guards with blasters and sonic cannons should also be included in the Separatist assets.

[Darth Servo]

OK, so I suppose we should have all the same stuff when the Feds replace the Sepratists?

No matter which side the Feds are on, I see them getting slaughtered in a fight against a force that knows how to act more like a real army.

[Ted C]

why not they could function in simmilar ways as the Acclaimers

We could grant a number of Intrepid class ships comparable to the number of Republic Acclamators, but the Federation really doesn't bring ships to the surface to land troops unless they're desperate. Intrepids could also replace the TradeFed Core ships.

Intrepids don't carry nearly as many troops as the corresponding SW ships, but they could act as receivers for pad-to-pad transports, potentially allowing orbiting ships to transport troops down through jamming (since pad-to-pad transporter is demonstrably more reliable). The troops would conveniently end up deploying from ships, just as they did AOTC.

the Federation would probably have:
20 Dune Buggys

Instead of sticking a fixed number in their, I'd prefer to just say "Federation Buggies in numbers comparable to the Republic AT-TEs", when replacing the Republic force. When replacing the Separatists, they would have to be comparable to the number of heavy battledroids.

30 Runabouts

Roughly as many as the Republic had LAATs when the Federation replaces the Republic; none when the Federation replaces the Separatists, since the Separatists didn't have air support.

20 Peragrin Fighters

Did the Republic actually use anything similar to this? Do Peregrins have the troop transport capacity to give them a combat role like the LAAT?

200,000 Federation Troops

This would be reasonable for the Republic side.

Incidentally, this suggests the need for a large number of Federation starships to transport the troops, since Federation ships don't appear to have nearly the cargo capacity of an Acclamator or TradeFed ship.

consiting of
1,000 RPG Troops
100,000 Armed with Type 3 Phaser Rifles(first contact type)
90,000 armed with Standard type 3 Phaser Rifles
1,000 Officers carrying Type 2 Phaser pistols
the rest manning the vehicles and serving as support for them(maintanence ect)

Do we want to get that specific about who has what? We should probably specify that the Federation troops have phaser rifles (does the type matter all that much) and pistols and that some of them have isomagnetic disintegrators (if that's what Worf's little bazooka was). There was a reference to photon grenades in TNG "Legacy", so we could generously grand a limited number of those, as well.

[Ted C]

What I'm seeing so far...

Federation replaces the Republic

Federation ground troops with phaser rifles replace the clones
Nemesis-style buggies replace the AT-TEs
Runabouts replace the LAATs
Lacking heavy weapons, isomagnetic disintegrators replace the SPHA-Ts
Intrepids replace the Acclamators
"Federation Commandos" replace the Jedi

Federation replaces the Separatists

Federation ground troops with phaser rifles replace the droid troops
Nemesis-style buggies and troops replace the fast attack droids
Isomagnetic disintegrators replace the heavy weapon droids
Intrepids replace the Core ships
A "Federation Commando" replaces Count Dooku

Analysis

I'd hate to be the Federation.

[Isolder74]

30 Runabouts

Roughly as many as the Republic had LAATs when the Federation replaces the Republic; none when the Federation replaces the Separatists, since the Separatists didn't have air support.

20 Peragrin Fighters

Did the Republic actually use anything similar to this? Do Peregrins have the troop transport capacity to give them a combat role like the LAAT?

The Perigrins and thr Runabouts are both replaceing the LAAT's. The Peridgins are used to suppliment the runabout's firepower as they are not all that heavily armed.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Considering the relatively small size of the Intrepids, it might be most practical to use a combination of Intrepids and Galaxies. The Intrepids set down on the surface and set up their transporters to receive troops from the Galaxies, each of which is packed bulkhead to bulkhead with troops. A Galaxy troopship should actually be able to carry troops in numbers roughly comparable to an Acclamator if the huge cabins are replaced with austere bunkrooms.

The Galaxies deploy in orbit while the Intrepids set down on the surface. Pad-to-pad transport is then used to move troops down to the surface, presumably along with fleets of shuttlecraft and runabouts. The need to transport troops down, and thus to keep the shields down, would in part explain why the Galaxies are not trying to ineffectually pound the grounded TradeFed ships. They would be far too busy trying to keep Geonosian fighters from tearing their unshielded hulls to pieces.

[Darth Servo]

A Galaxy troopship should actually be able to carry troops in numbers roughly comparable to an Acclamator if the huge cabins are replaced with austere bunkrooms.

6000 troops in the more militeralized time line of "Yesterday's Enterprise"

[Patrick Ogaard]

A Galaxy troopship should actually be able to carry troops in numbers roughly comparable to an Acclamator if the huge cabins are replaced with austere bunkrooms.

6000 troops in the more militeralized time line of "Yesterday's Enterprise"

That would put the number of Galaxies at roughly 2.5 times the number of Acclamators present. The question then becomes how many troops a given ship can beam down before it blows up under fighter attacks (and how well the Galaxies hold up against the fusion rockets the Separatists apparently used on the Acclamators).

[SirNitram]

Actually, in the Seperatists place the Federation is more likely to get away with more equipment and important personnel. Starfleet vessels have shown the ability to go to Warp in an atmosphere, meaning they can flee more quickly, and any Fed command centre will have transporter pads, meaning they can likely cut through the jamming enough to do pad-to-pad up to orbit and flee.

Yes, the Federation is quite good at running away.

[Ender]

How many droids were present anyway?

[Darth Servo]

Starfleet vessels have shown the ability to go to Warp in an atmosphere,

How reliable is the ability?

meaning they can flee more quickly

More quickly than the few seconds it takes SW ships to reach outer space?

[Patrick Ogaard]

Using the figures from the TNG Tech Manual (referencing the TNG episode "Devil's Due,") a Galaxy using its transporters and shuttles should be able to transport about 1,250 people per hour. This would, of course, be assuming that the Intrepids are rigged with a suitable number of pads to receive the beamed down troops.

The first waveof ttroops would presumably be carried directly by the Intrepids, those troops being used to secure the beachhead. After that, the beamed down troop contingents will presumbably be built up until the Federation commander decides there is enough of a force on the ground to form the first wave of mobile targets.

The big problem might be that the Federation force just does not have the necessary transporter bandwidth to get a worthwhile force on the ground.

If the clone army had just enough transport to lift 200,000 clone troopers, it should have had a baker's dozen of Acclamators, though I'll assume 14. Giving the Federation a generous 2.5 times as many Galaxies gives us a formation of 35 Galaxies. Using shuttles and transporters, the maximum those starships should be able to get sent down in an hour is just over 40,000 (43,750). Thus, it should take about five hours to get a contingent of 200,000 troops sent down, closer to four hours if the Intrepids take a fair number of troops down directly in the first wave.

Substituting the Federation force for the Grand Army of the Republic does not look terribly viable, based just on slow deployment of assault troops.

[Ted C]

Using the figures from the TNG Tech Manual (referencing the TNG episode "Devil's Due,") a Galaxy using its transporters and shuttles should be able to transport about 1,250 people per hour. This would, of course, be assuming that the Intrepids are rigged with a suitable number of pads to receive the beamed down troops.

I believe that TNG's "Descent" also indicates that it takes a minimum of 45-50 seconds to beam up 47 people (noted in Mike's database).

Substituting the Federation force for the Grand Army of the Republic does not look terribly viable, based just on slow deployment of assault troops.

In other words, odds of success look bad for the Federation in the Republic role.

[Stravo]

UNLESS the Federtaion heavily modifies its Intrepids like the Shadowfleet in Starcrossed and allow troops to disembark from both the shuttle bays and especially prepared airlocks along the secondary hull of the ship letting troops directly run off ramps to the surface.

[Ted C]

UNLESS the Federtaion heavily modifies its Intrepids like the Shadowfleet in Starcrossed and allow troops to disembark from both the shuttle bays and especially prepared airlocks along the secondary hull of the ship letting troops directly run off ramps to the surface.

I believe that the rules of the Battles page require the use of existing equipment. We cannot arbitrarily grant radical modifications.